List of replacement impellers for HF dust collector?

[Craig Starnes]

I've seen the Rikon 60-200 impeller mentioned several times as an upgrade for the HF dust collector, but does anyone know which other impellers will fit without modification?

I would bet that several other manufacturers use the same impeller as Rikon, so there should be other sources.

[Craig Starnes]

All this interest and nary a reply. :)

How about this... does anyone have the specs of the Rikon impeller (shaft size, weight, exact diameter... any other pertinent info needed to source one independently?)

[John Lanciani]

If the Rikon is known to fit, why not just use it?

[Dave Schreib]

Craig - I am using a HF unit with a Wynn filter - has anyone measured what kind of improvement we can get by going to the bigger impeller?

[Craig Starnes]

If the Rikon is known to fit, why not just use it?

Mainly because they are backordered until mid February...but it also wouldn't hurt to have some other alternatives; maybe even less expensive ones since Rikon apparently has the "HF impeller upgrade" market cornered and is taking advantage of it. :)

[Craig Starnes]

Craig - I am using a HF unit with a Wynn filter - has anyone measured what kind of improvement we can get by going to the bigger impeller?

I haven't seen any hard numbers, but the general consensus seems to be a significant improvement once the proper impeller is installed.

[Dave Schreib]

I just did a google search and a guy on the Thien forum says that the Grizzly 12 3/4 by 3 1/2 impeller # P1028Z2010 works.

On another forum a guy says that his cfm at the end of a 41 ft run went from 325 cfm to 640cfm. He was exhausting outside so no filter to add resistance.

Good luck

[Craig Starnes]

I just did a google search and a guy on the Thien forum says that the Grizzly 12 3/4 by 3 1/2 impeller # P1028Z2010 works.

On another forum a guy says that his cfm at the end of a 41 ft run went from 325 cfm to 640cfm. He was exhausting outside so no filter to add resistance.

Good luck

Did the Grizzly have to be machined to fit the HF shaft? The only other impeller I saw referenced required the hole to be opened up a little...but I don't remember if it was that Grizzly or not.

Thanks

EDIT:

After some more searching and reading, it looks like the Grizzly impeller was too heavy for the HF motor (even though it is for a 1-1/2hp machine?), and the shaft diameter wasn't exactly correct. So, we're still at only the Rikon impeller so far.

[Lane Hardy]

A few words on HF DC.

I have the HF D.C. It was a gift to me, and I have made considerable changes to the original system.I added the Supper Dust Deputy and the Wynn 35 A filter. I also removed the original impeller cover that was 5 inches in Diameter made a new cover plate from MDF and used a 6 inch HVAC to connect the blower to the suction side of the Supper Dust Deputy.
Opening the suction from 5 inches with obstructions to 6 inches a straight pipe connecting to the SDD, I gained a lot more air flow. On the exhaust side of the blower I did use the stock HF dust ring I trashed the dust distribution system I mean the dust bag and replaced the bag with the Wynn 35A filter. To couple the dust ring to the exhaust of the blower I used a plastic ABS coupling from Lowes $1.98 seriously I found it with abs plastic gutter drain pipe, it is called a snap coupling.
The Wynn Filter also increased the air flow another major increase the Wynn has much less airflow restrictions that the dust bag.
I do not have the instrumentation to propely state airflow numbers I hate to say however I do have an Amp probe to measure the current flow of the motor. With the motor running and stableized it draws 10.0 amps other considerations are my Altitude I am at 1900 feet above Mean Sea Leval (MSL) and this is with the stock impeller.
my duct system! I am using all 5 inch ducting. If you want to use 5 inch PVC find a well driller supply,Well drillers use 5 inch PVC for well caseing.

The Rikon 60-200 impeller $99.00 from Rikon $8.00 Fed ex Shipping from MA to West Texas. The bad news I ordered the impeller last October 15, the good news it is scheduled to arrive on Friday October 8. 2017 Yahoo.

At one time when the impeller was $60.00 from Rikon they were reluctant to sell the impeller without a serial number from a Rikon D.C. System. I guess they decided to sell them on the open market because the parts guy told me they were back ordered due to the HF conversation popularity. When I ordered the fan in October I was told I should have it by Nov 15 that date was pushed back.

I also ordered a fan hub puller from eBay $20.00 I have a 3 jaw gear puller however it will not grasp the cutout's on the fan hub to remove the fan from the motor shaft. Don't think about using a drift to hammer the shaft off the fan unless you want to replace the motor or the bearings. Don't ask how I know.

I made another upgrade a Dust Sentry to monitor the dust level in my dust collector bucket. Search other threads for this mod well worth it. My dust bucket is not real deep due The the available vert height in my garage 8 foot. If the dust bucket fills up at some point the dust will get sucked into the filter, not good so I found the proximity sensor Banner QS18VP6D
for $35.00 and a 12 volt led strobe light for $ 2.95 and a $2.50 2 amp power cube all from eBay. I hooked it all up and thought the strobe is there but I might not see it since it is not real bright to reflect off of the walls unless I am looking at it. So I decided to add sound. I had an old smoke detector that was not being used so I first removed the son alert from the PCB when I applied 12 volts to the contacts no sound was emitted. I reinstalled it back in the PCB applied power to the smoke detector battery contacts pressed the test button and it sounded. I messured the current draw to be sure I did not exceed the ma limit of the Banner QS18VP6D. The combined current draw of both the smoke detector and the strobe did not exceed the senor so I now have an audible as well as a visual alert to dust height in the duct barrel.

Since the sensor does does not have a test feature I made a little pattle that I could swing in front of the sensor to simulate the dust level exceedance. Bear in mind that the dust collection buscket can not have any air leaks if you do it will cause the filter to clog because it is sucking dust from the bucket. Leaks are BAD. Filters clogging are bad too!
More on that next.

How I made a leak free way of moving the test paddle in the beam of the sensor! Simple I used all thread a 10 inch 1/4-20
Length made a paddle at the bottom with two 1/4-20 nuts holding it. I drilled a hole and tapped the hole in the MDF cover of bust barrel the MDF being 3/4 of an inch thick gave me many threads to act as a seal thus not having leak plugging up my filter.

How much suction do I Have? As I said before I do not have the proper instrumentation to give definitive numbers of CFM.
But I do have two Manometers to messure relative efficiency, one to monitor back pressure on the filter, filter back pressure is bad i.e. Clogged filter (maybe caused by leak in dust barrel!��)
On the inlet or suction side also called pressure side I have a Manometer that allows me to evaluate what the effect of adding bends and flexible ducting have to the system. I.e. Using two 45's rather than a 90 degree bend.

If I had it to do over again!!! What would I do?

Cost?

HF DC free but could be bought on sale $169.00
Supper Dust Deputy $200.00 delived (round figures)
Wynn 35A filter delivered $208.00
Bannor sensor dust depth sensor system $40.00 (power cube, strobe, sensor)
misc other things scavenged
$108 Rikon 12 inch empeller

i can not consider the cost of the flex duct or ridigid ducting because I would have that with any other system.

If you had to purchase the items above you would have about $750.00 into the project.
me I would look into a real 3 HP system with a two stage Cyclone separation system with a hepa filter equal to the Wynn 35A

With all the the changes I have made the weak point is now the HF motor. They call it a 2 HP motor I doubt if it really is.
more like 1.5 my guess how will adding the 12.0 inch Rikon fan affect the performance it has to get better considering I am at 1900 feet MSl, at Sea level maybe not the HF motor may not be able to spool up the larger fan with out exceeding the current limits of the motor.

That is my storie!

Lane

[Lane Hardy]

I for got to add photos
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[Lane Hardy]

Did the Grizzly have to be machined to fit the HF shaft? The only other impeller I saw referenced required the hole to be opened up a little...but I don't remember if it was that Grizzly or not.

Thanks

EDIT:

After some more searching and reading, it looks like the Grizzly impeller was too heavy for the HF motor (even though it is for a 1-1/2hp machine?), and the shaft diameter wasn't exactly correct. So, we're still at only the Rikon impeller so far.


First off a 12 3/4 inch impeller will not fit in the housing of the HF blower with out serious modifications, the Areo dynamics of the fan housing may not support a positive outcome!

the Rikon 12 inch will barely fit through the original hole.
2 nd I doubt the HF motor has enough HP to swing a 12 3/4 inch fan unless it was on Mount McKennly.
I would even say that the HF motor would burn up in Denver at 5000 feet with that Fan.

[Craig Starnes]

Thanks for all the info Lane. I talked to Rikon today, and they said they would have impellers sometime mid-February. Not sure on the cost, but I've heard around $120 now (shipped). Being on a tight budget, I went with the HF @ $149, since there is so much "positive" feedback on them once they are modded. I also picked up the new 4" Dust deputy with the fiber drum, and got it all assembled into a nice frame and vented it outside my shop.


I was also thinking about moving it up to the loft to make more room, but not sure if it could handle the added vertical lift. But...


Now that I've been researching all of this after-the-fact, I'm a bit bummed out to find out that 4" systems in general aren't even adequate enough to make the charts on most of the websites I've studied. So now I can't decide if I should go ahead and upgrade what I have to the Rikon impeller and run what I brung, or just return/sell it and stick to a damn shop vac in my hobby shop. :)

[Lane Hardy]

Craig,
if I were in your shoes I would see if Oneida would exchange your 4 inch for the Supper Dust Deputy or take it back as Wood craft has the SDD on sale for $149.00, the 5 inch ducting will serve you much better even with a stock fan.
if you have room to stack the blower on to of the Supper Dust Deputy that will give you even more airflow if you use a six inch HVAC duct as I did.
The HVAC duct you see is called a flanged take off 6 inch and fits perfectly into the SDD.$6.00 Lowes.
Ducting your exhaust outside will be a plus as well.

my Rikon Fan arrived today! $108.00 shipped. But I did order it last OCT.
i will take measurements of current draw and how many inches of Water to compare to the new fan?
and post that info.

if you need any more info feel free to PM me and we can exchange phone numbers.

Lane

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[Craig Starnes]

Craig, if I were in your shoes I would see if Oneida would exchange your 4 inch for the Supper Dust Deputy or take it back as Wood craft has the SDD on sale for $149.00, the 5 inch ducting will serve you much better even with a stock fan. if you have room to stack the blower on to of the Supper Dust Deputy that will give you even more airflow if you use a six inch HVAC duct as I did. The HVAC duct you see is called a flanged take off 6 inch and fits perfectly into the SDD.$6.00 Lowes. Ducting your exhaust outside will be a plus as well. my Rikon Fan arrived today! $108.00 shipped. But I did order it last OCT. i will take measurements of current draw and how many inches of Water to compare to the new fan? and post that info. if you need any more info feel free to PM me and we can exchange phone numbers. Lane 373230373231

Unfortunately, I'm probably stuck with the 4" setup for a while. If the Rikon impeller shows substantial gains for you, I may upgrade mine and run with it for a while. Anxious to hear your results and any additional info on it that you can provide.

Thanks again!

[Craig Starnes]

I can't figure out how to get a picture to post properly for some reason, but here is a link to what I have right now. http://www.jcsautomation.com/temp/dc.jpg

I actually have fairly decent flow (suction?) as it is. It seems that the 4" dust deputy and venting outside is a pretty good match when mated directly to the inlet via 5" hose. The cone itself actually has a 5" inlet opening, so I cut off the 4" part of the "inlet" that they provide, flipped it upside down, and cemented it into the opening. (It's actually just a 4" to 5" reducer like this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EY1XA3E/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) The dust bin sits on a hinged platform with latches in the front, and is super easy to remove and empty. It seals against some weatherstripping at the top with light pressure from the latches.

I still might move it to the loft above to gain some floor space. Just not sure if it has enough oomph to lift anything 8 feet...although fighting gravity probably isn't much different than frictional losses from pulling it along a pipe or hose. Regardless of where it ends up, the ducting will be mostly rigid SDR-35 PVC with gradual curves, etc.

[Lane Hardy]

New Rikon impeller installed! In my HF DC system!

stats:

My Altitude 1970 feet above Mean Sea level.
temapture 71 degrees.

HF impeller 10.0 inches in Diameter
Rikon 11 7/8 inches in Diameter

Vertical blade height both HF and Rikon 3 3/8

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weight: HF 4.6 lbs.
Rikon 7.0 lbs

see previous post from me on difference's of my system compared to a stock HF single stage D.C.

With the new impeller installed:

Water Colum is how I measured the performance. Note WC is with my current 5 inch ducting with one blast gate open.
Currently I have a very short run of 5 HVAC duct 8 feet pretty crude right now. The bends look like 90's here but they are more like two 45's more refinement will come in the ducting for better performance.
Rikon 6.0 inches WC
HF 4.0 inch WC

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Amp draw:

HF impeller 10.8
Rikon 12.5 after running the D.C. System for 30 minutes the motor was not any warmer than with the HF blower so for me
the HF motor is handling the extra load of the new impeller in spite of the larger mass and the impeller direction.

Over all I am happy! However if I had it to do over knowing what I know now I would spend more money
and have a 3-5 Hp DC system with a two stages and six inch ducting with long sweeps.
I have learned a lot and I have had fun doing it! that is what is important to me.

I started this adventure with a shop vac and a home brew Cyclone that works very well.
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The original objective was to stop tracking saw dust into the house, and now it has evolved into keeping my health.

One other observation the same as others have noted the sound level with this impeller is slightly louder, I should have taken a DB reading! Oh well, however the audio frequency is different, to me it is slightly a higher frequency.
The the spool down time of the impeller is longer due to the extra mass, who care right?


if you are on a budget and can build this over time I say it is well worth it to follow the path I did.
After all I use one tool at the time like most do. And my Bench dog does not track saw dust into the house.

Scooby my Bench Dog

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Dang I hate when that happens photo on it's side!

[Mike Heidrick]

How do you build, hook up, and measure with the water column gauge?

[Mike Heidrick]

Also did you measure your setup without that flex?

[Lane Hardy]

How do you build, hook up, and measure with the water column gauge?
See DIY Tyler G on YouTube https://youtu.be/a9l9e8PwgEs

in this video Tyler make a Manometer to measure the pressure in the filter unit. If the pressure increases the filter is clogging and it is time to blow it out.
on the suction side I made the same U tube and connected to the input side of my Supper Dust Deputy

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[Lane Hardy]

Also did you measure your setup without that flex?
Hi Mike,

Do you mean where the flex connects to the metal ducting at the Supper Dust Deputy?
On the oposit end? flex duct is not connected to anything when I made the messurement just and open flex line.

[Wade Lippman]

If you had to purchase the items above you would have about $750.00 into the project.
me I would look into a real 3 HP system with a two stage Cyclone separation system with a hepa filter equal to the Wynn 35A


Reading your post I had to think... why would anyone go though all that and still have something based on a HF tool! Then I found your answer.
Yeah, a Grizzly 1.5hp is $950 delivered, but I expect it would perform rather better.

[Peter Kelly]

Reading your post I had to think... why would anyone go though all that and still have something based on a HF tool! Then I found your answer.
Yeah, a Grizzly 1.5hp is $950 delivered, but I expect it would perform rather better.Comparable would be the 1.5HP Mini Gorilla from Onieda (https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryd.asp?item_no=XXPM010100H) (1,150.00+tax+shipping).

[Mike Heidrick]

Thanks for showing that video. I doubt i could install it on my setup without major work. Heck i dont own anything i could cover my filters with anyway.

Do you hf mod guys not look for deals and make offers on used cyclone collectors? My cyclone I got this past year for $1400. Its a bigun and not for just anyone but I know that the place on ebay in euclid ohio had 10 or more 3hp shopfox cyclones they let go for ~$800 this year. Some needed a few parts but you would be miles ahead in performance and maybe in less physical space requirements.

[Lane Hardy]

I looked for about a year for a D.C. For sale here in Texas few Wood workers in West Texas :( with out chasing possible systems around the country it was not worth a hunting trip.
I was given the HF DC so my investment was the Supper Dust Deputy a Wynn35A filter and a Rikon impeller.
It is not a 5 hp unit but does the job I need with plenty of air movement for 1 device at the time.

[Allen Matsumoto]

Lane: I'm building a HF mod from scratch partly for the savings, but mostly because I have a tiny, tiny shop and want to create effective collection in the smallest footprint possible, wedged into the spaces I have.

The 5" inlet on the SDD confuses me: I want to connect this to a 5" rigid duct system, but there don't seem to be a lot of options. I'd really like to go with PVC or other plastic instead of galvanized HVAC, both for ease of install and for overall rigidity (and to minimize finger cuts, which I seem to get in spades every time I work with galv HVAC).

But 5" PVC is nonexistent at local stores, and a gazillion $ at the online sources I've found. We don't have so many well drillers around here that I feel likely to find someone who wants to take the time to figure out how to sell some of their stock to me, and I'm striking out checking well drilling supply vendors.

And were you able to find 5" blast gates and a wide variety of fittings? It really feels like it's a 6" or 4" world outside of flex hose. Even in galvanized, a lot of fittings that are readily available for 4" and 6" aren't on the shelves.

I've powered forward with most of the build so far, but am stumped to figure out how to do this without stepping down immediately to 4". If doing that were the normal case, it seems like they would not have made the inlet 5" in the first place. There must be a ton of people using the SDD with 5" ducting, but I'll be darned if I can find good info on it.

Thanks for any thoughts you've got!

[Bill Dufour]

For some reason 5" is fairly common in PVC conduit. At least all the 5" I have seen is gray.
Bill D

[Allen Matsumoto]

For some reason 5" is fairly common in PVC conduit. At least all the 5" I have seen is gray.
Bill D

Huh, no luck (1 non-local supplier) online and none of the usual suspects around here have it. Well, I guess it makes sense that the big box stores wouldn’t have it, not a lot of homeowners running that much electrical :-) I’ll check some local industrial supply places tomorrow. Some online suppliers I’ve found promise “any size 1/2” to 12”, but sure enough, they skip right from 4” to 6”.

I guess I’ll call Oneida too, they must have had something in mind with that 5” port! There’s still the question of blast gates, etc.

[Roy Petersen]

And were you able to find 5" blast gates and a wide variety of fittings? It really feels like it's a 6" or 4" world outside of flex hose. Even in galvanized, a lot of fittings that are readily available for 4" and 6" aren't on the shelves.


I guess I’ll call Oneida too, they must have had something in mind with that 5” port! There’s still the question of blast gates, etc.
Yes, they do. They sell metal ducting in that size, and since it's harder to find PVC in 5" in some areas (I struck out totally in the Northeast), it's a captive audience. Manufacture and sell in a size only you carry, and you sell more. ;)

I wound up buying from them, 5" 24ga all the way to within 6' of each station in my small shop. Was roughly $600 of pipe and fittings; a price I didn't want to pay.

[Carl Kona]

With that small of a blower, just use the big box 5" hvac duct. There will be NO issue of collapse. There is a picture of a 10ft+ horizontal run of 6" 30 gauge hvac duct collapsed in a dust collector run using a much larger blower. A lot of reference is made to that picture and the cry for the need to use heavy expensive ducting. Instead the cheap and simple fix was to add a plywood ring every several feet (plywood with a 6" hole slid over the duct). This keeps the duct from collapsing, it adds a mounting bracket (use plywood ring to attach to wall or ceiling) and saves a considerable amount of money. The longer the run and bigger the diameter the more susceptible to collapse. A lot of small shop setups have enough joints and fittings that add enough rigidity to need few if any rings (every joint/connection will add rigidity).

Blast gates and hose are available here 5" Aluminum ~$12 http://www.blastgateco.com/Cast-Aluminum-Full-Blast-Gates.php
Whyes here ~$13 http://www.simplyplumbing.com/27013-smoke-flue-wye.html (these are actually longer than pictured ~24")
and here ~$20 http://thesheetmetalkid.com/wye-branch/typical-wye-branch/6-x-6-x-4-duct-wye-branch-hvac-ductwork-ac-duct-fittings/

These wyes should come un-crimped allowing you to crimp the correct end for Dust collector flow (worth verifying that is still the case before you order)

[Craig Stueve]

Thanks Carl for the links and information.
I have a good Delta single stage DC with a good pleated filter and have been contemplating adding a cyclone from Oneida. Knowing that I can get by with the less expensive piping and fittings is great to hear.

[Allen Matsumoto]

Ugh, wow! Well, your experience in the NE pretty much matches mine. That’s a lot of dough for metal. 24 ga sounds a lot heavier than traditional heating ductwork, what was it like to work with?

[Allen Matsumoto]

With that small of a blower, just use the big box 5" hvac duct. There will be NO issue of collapse.

Thanks Carl, great info. I hadn’t even thought about collapse with 30 ga ducting, good to keep in mind. I do want to do the Rikon impeller, so will play it on the safe side, at least with reinforcements. And maybe some Kevlar gloves, given my history with that stuff. 🙂


These wyes should come in-crimped allowing you crimp the correct end for Dust collector flow (worth verify that is still the case before you order)
Another good call given that it seems like no one’s hoses or fittings of a nominal dimension ever want to fit to anyone else’s, and neither blue nor orange stores have much in the way of 5” fittings.

[Roy Petersen]

Ugh, wow! Well, your experience in the NE pretty much matches mine. That’s a lot of dough for metal. 24 ga sounds a lot heavier than traditional heating ductwork, what was it like to work with?
Definitely was on the high side re: cost. It coincided with an unexpected windfall at the same time I was planning this, so it worked out (and paid for a canister filter, too).

Working with the ducting was difficult, as I'd never done it before. Had to get some tools (crimper, proper snips, and many band-aids), but once I figured that part out it was mainly simple. Getting the snap lock to close was the most frustrating part, but once I figured out a 2 hose clamp method it went far better. It's a lot heavier than the 30ga, but with temp supports (one man shop here, so no one to hold things up) using pipe strapping, it went quickly.

[Allen Matsumoto]

... and many band-aids
:D


...once I figured out a 2 hose clamp method it went far better.
Got a link to that method, maybe save me some band-aids? Or is at as simple as hose clamping partway in from both ends to get the pipe to close up enough to engage when released?

Oneida's Gorilla clamp duct system looks pretty great, but wow, $45 for an elbow, I think I'll save the money for tools instead.

[Roy Petersen]

Here was my post on it, but there are several ways within that thread.
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?259143-About-to-lose-my-trying-to-assemble-Snap-Loc-pipe&p=2747450#post2747450

[Bradley Potts]

Here in the SF Bay Area, I have a nearby commercial HVAC supply house that is able to order pretty much anything one may need -- let there be no mystery, these DC manufacturers are not creating their own specialized pipes and fittings, they are utilizing existing materials or customizing them, so we can do the same while cutting out the middlemen.

I wouldn't trifle with 30ga., but simply order up 24ga, which isn't too expensive. At some point, ordering 5" spiral pipe might be feasible.

Lastly, you can use adapters to overcome the 5" sizing issue. For example, the 5" inlet to the impeller is what limits the cfm, not the 6" pipe, so just run 6" if that's all you can find at a reasonable cost and reduce it with a commonly available 6"-5" reducer at the impeller. Another alternative, if you have only a short main, would be to convert the impeller inlet and outlet to a 1" larger diameter (the outlet must be 1" larger than the inlet).

[Carl Kona]

I have to take exception to Bradley's comment about upsizing your duct to 6" from a 5" port. Although it seems innocent enough to increase the duct by 1", but your duct area is increasing almost 50% (~19 sq. in. to ~28 sq. in.) So the issue is the velocity drops in the bigger duct. I just ran an 8' run of 6" duct from the 6" outlet of a 1.5HP cyclone with a 12.5" impeller and my velocity was too low for duct collection (~2700 FPM) even though my CFMs were about 530. When you drop the velocity you can't maintain suspension of the debris in the duct and you get clogs. By simply reducing the duct to 5" diameter I increased velocity to over 3300 FPM with a drop in CFM to 490. With any dust collection system you want at least 3000-3500FPM velocity to maintain debris suspension (some even want >4000). That is why you never see ANY air system (Dust collection, vacuum or HVAC) increase duct size down the line.

Most any blower, dust collector, cyclone with an impeller under 13" probably can't properly operate with 6" ducting, they would perform best with 5". Although many people run 4" due to cost and convenience, you strangle away too much performance. Will a 6" or 4" create suction? Sure. They will tell you it "feels great", "can't believe the suction" etc. but they did not accurately measure the performance. I did and my short run of 4" showed over a 30% drop from 5" so I didn't bother doing any more testing with that setup. Even the manufactures realize that 6" is too big for smaller blowers. Grizzly includes a 6"-5" reducer with their 1.5HP cyclones. Why even have a 6" port to begin with? Because they can advertised a bigger CFM number using a larger port.

Hope that helps.

Carl

BTW All measurements were based on testing with a Pitot tube

[David L Morse]

... I just ran an 8' run of 6" duct from the 6" outlet of a 1.5HP cyclone with a 12.5" impeller and my velocity was too low for duct collection (~2700 FPM) even though my CFMs were about 530. When you drop the velocity you can't maintain suspension of the debris in the duct and you get clogs...

You were getting clogs at 2700FPM? What kind of material were you trying to move?

I use 6" flex and PVC to connect to my table saw and get about 400CFM which is about 2000FPM in the 6". I have not had a problem with clogs.

[Carl Kona]

David,

Good to know you can maintain such a low velocity on a TS without issue. I have not had clogs on my current setup and did not want to deal with any either. I changed my duct size after my testing using clean new filters, which would have been my best case scenario. My concern at 2700 FPM was based on all the duct/material flow design guidelines I have ever come across regarding wood chips. Everything I have seen from duct manufacturers, dust collector manufactures (both retail and industrial) and wood working journals all use a
minimum velocity for wood chips at 3500 FPM in designing ductwork branches. Since my best was only 2700 I didn't want to chance it. I am still not to my target, but this is temporary. If it was only my TS connected to this line I would not have been as concerned, but my jointer and planer make the bigger clogging chips. The only clog I ever had was with my planer and my old Jet 1100 using a 4" flex. Don't know how caked the bag was or how little flow I was getting at that time as I didn't pay attention to those things at that time.

[Josh Gill]

I just did a google search and a guy on the Thien forum says that the Grizzly 12 3/4 by 3 1/2 impeller # P1028Z2010 works.

On another forum a guy says that his cfm at the end of a 41 ft run went from 325 cfm to 640cfm. He was exhausting outside so no filter to add resistance.

Good luck


This method doesn't work. I purchased this exact impeller, (Grizzly # P1028Z2010) and it does not fit inside the housing. It is both longer in circumference and wider in thickness. Would need a whole new housing to adapt. Grizzly was kind enough to give me a refund but I had to pay return shipping and a 10% restocking fee which was only fair.

[Thomas Colson]

[3403-022] Turbo Fan for WEN 3403 × 1 does indeed fit the Harbor Freight DC shaft, perfectly, and does fit inside the shroud. Also, no issues on startup, did not notice any increase startup or running amp draw, despite the WEN impeller being considerably bigger and heavier by at least 3X. Also want to point out that getting the stock impeller off was a b*****, as the flange promptly snapped off when using a 3 jaw puller. And make sure you use a tip saver with your puller, or else you'll trash the threads for the locking screw, and need a M6 reverse thread plug tap to redo the threads, also a b****. In the end, in terms of time, almost not worth it, but for a 35$ part added to a 150$ dust collector, I'm pretty impressed with the results, and if it flies apart after a couple of months of use, still got my money's worth out of something that has run 4 years longer than the 2 I expected it to last.

[Neil Phillips]

[3403-022] Turbo Fan for WEN 3403 × 1 does indeed fit the Harbor Freight DC shaft, perfectly, and does fit inside the shroud. Also, no issues on startup, did not notice any increase startup or running amp draw, despite the WEN impeller being considerably bigger and heavier by at least 3X. Also want to point out that getting the stock impeller off was a b*****, as the flange promptly snapped off when using a 3 jaw puller. And make sure you use a tip saver with your puller, or else you'll trash the threads for the locking screw, and need a M6 reverse thread plug tap to redo the threads, also a b****. In the end, in terms of time, almost not worth it, but for a 35$ part added to a 150$ dust collector, I'm pretty impressed with the results, and if it flies apart after a couple of months of use, still got my money's worth out of something that has run 4 years longer than the 2 I expected it to last.

I literally attempted the same upgrade, and promptly ripped the impeller flange off with the puller. i was po'd, considered it a fail, and then sold my rikon impeller. this was in may- now im thinking of redoing it since im upgrading my entire shop, and now the rikon is out of stock, as is the Wen.

anyway- in anticipation of the Wen becoming available soon, how did you get the HF impeller off? i considered cutting it off with a dremel or grinder.

thanks for any info

[David Hostetler]

I went with the Wen 3403-22 turbofan (impeller). I am honestly a bit shocked to see 2 people here that managed to break the OE impeller flange, but Murphy is a real SOB sometimes...

My swap went smooth as glass. unplug the DC, unscrew the flange, take the retaining bolt off counter thread. Set up 3 jaw puller and insure the jaw hooks are SOLIDLY under the lip of the impeller flange. and slowly, and smoothly screw the center screw in until the OE impeller came loose, remove OE impeller from housing.

Next line up retaining key / keyway so that it is pointing straight up to allow me to orient the new impeller easily.

Using a Q tip, apply air tool oil to the inner surface of the new impeller shaft way / keyway.

Line up the new impeller and start the keyway / shaft. until the new impeller starts onto the retaining key and shaft.

Using a mallet and hunk of 2x4 to protect the impeller flange and drive the new impeller home until fully seated.

Reinstall retaining bolt / washer, counterthreaded of course.

Reinstall flange.

Plug DC back in.

Test.

Forget I had a blast gate open, and a small drill bit next to the dust pickup on my drill press

Listen to the drill bit bounce to the separator.

Yep suction / airflow massively improved.