Insert head low down

[Darcy Warner]

I am about to invest 10k into insert heads for a customer.

The shelix/bryds are out of the question as I do not like the design of the perched cutters. I was looking at hermance, I like the pocketed design, but have heard that the straight sided inserts do not cut as nice as the radius edge ones do. I am getting a price from global and am planning on talking to Jeff at Northfield tomorrow.

Anyone have any real life experience with anything other than a Shelix head.

[Geoff Crimmins]

My friend has a 13" DeWalt with a Shelix head, and I have 15" Grizzly with the Grizzly helical head that uses straight inserts. I know that the Shelix works better in theory, but in the real world I can't tell the difference between the two. --Geoff

[Larry Edgerton]

Head for what?


Terminex or Tersa. I have Tersa, like it and it seems a bit more common than Terminex.

Had a couple of Byrds, not impressed.

[Wayne Lomman]

I'm not a fan of the perched insert style head. Straight inserts in close fitting seats work extremely well, give an excellent finish and provide long tip life. This is using abrasive timbers 95% of the time as well. Cheers

[Darcy Warner]

Two jointers and a big planer.

[Mike Kees]

Darcy and Wayne could you elaborate more on what you guys dont like about "perched" cutterheads ? I am looking at possibly upgrading to insert heads eventually so your opinions would be that much more education for me,thanks, Mike.

[Darcy Warner]

I have seen the shelix/Byrd ones completely broken off the heads. No real support for that knife other than the screw holding it on and a little lip on the back side.

[lowell holmes]

When I saw the title to your post, it conjured a strange image. :)

[Andrew Joiner]

When I saw the title to your post, it conjured a strange image. :)

Now I'm googling " how to remove coffee spray from a keyboard"!

[Darcy Warner]

I don't understand how Bryd stays in business, 10 months to get a head made. Who the heck can be without a cutter head for that long, plus they need all the parts of the motor for a direct drive machine.

[Larry Edgerton]

I don't understand how Bryd stays in business, 10 months to get a head made. Who the heck can be without a cutter head for that long, plus they need all the parts of the motor for a direct drive machine.

Ya, that sure cuts down on your options. I looked at converting a Porter direct and ended up buying a SCM new for less money.

[peter gagliardi]

When I had my Terminus heads made for my jointer and planer, they sent a guy out, who measured and drew a schematic right off the heads on my machines. I had to remove them as necessary to access the whole units. He had me sign off on the measurements. He then sent them to Switzerland where they are made. They made a proper blueprint, and sent it back for us to sign off on, then the heads were made. It took about 8-12 weeks start to delivery.

On another note, the pocketed head that Hermance makes, takes a standard 15 x 15 or so insert with straight edges if I remember, no? If so, there is also a 15 x 15 standard curved edge insert out there. Why can't those be used if wanted? The whole system works around the standardized sizes of the inserts. The radius edge inserts are still supported at the centers of the back and sides. They should be able to put you in touch with users who can give you feedback.

[John Kee]

There are 5 of us involved in a group buy from Hermance. One of our group already has their 24" head on a machine and was impressed with their service and the quality of cut from the cutterhead. Personally I like standard and easy to acquire pieces. I would suggest direct contact with Matt if you have any interest.

[peter gagliardi]

Ya, that sure cuts down on your options. I looked at converting a Porter direct and ended up buying a SCM new for less money.

That is interesting. Byrd must be charging a premium. When I got the Terminus, and when I priced the Hermance for my Greenlee planer, which I haven't followed through on, it was "only" $150.00 per inch of cutting edge- 24" machine would run $3600.00.
Not cheap, but I have yet to see a new SCMI machine selling that cheap.
Perhaps we need to start a group buy here in the states.

[Darcy Warner]

There are 5 of us involved in a group buy from Hermance. One of our group already has their 24" head on a machine and was impressed with their service and the quality of cut from the cutterhead. Personally I like standard and easy to acquire pieces. I would suggest direct contact with Matt if you have any interest.

Matt at Hermance, or should I say from the company that designed the heads and Hermance seemed to have bought? I think it's Strouse machining llc,

[Darcy Warner]

When I had my Terminus heads made for my jointer and planer, they sent a guy out, who measured and drew a schematic right off the heads on my machines. I had to remove them as necessary to access the whole units. He had me sign off on the measurements. He then sent them to Switzerland where they are made. They made a proper blueprint, and sent it back for us to sign off on, then the heads were made. It took about 8-12 weeks start to delivery.

On another note, the pocketed head that Hermance makes, takes a standard 15 x 15 or so insert with straight edges if I remember, no? If so, there is also a 15 x 15 standard curved edge insert out there. Why can't those be used if wanted? The whole system works around the standardized sizes of the inserts. The radius edge inserts are still supported at the centers of the back and sides. They should be able to put you in touch with users who can give you feedback.

They use 15x15 square edge ones. They design the heads around that insert. Byrd uses the radius edge ones.

2500 for a16"dd jointer, 4500 for a 71cm belt drive planer.

[John Kee]

Matt Strouse is Hermance Machining, he's been the main contact.

[Darcy Warner]

I ended up going with Hermance, my heads were finished in about 3 weeks, they will be shipped to me this week.

In the mean time, I picked up a 12" Sidney jointer with a brand new Hermance head in it.

Took a fat pass off a 10.5" wide piece of Sapele with it today. Attached is a picture of it right off the machine and wiped down with thinner.

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Video:


https://youtu.be/PEcBZeuoiTg

[John Kee]

Darcy, my buddy and I heading down to Hermance on Wednesday to pickup 3 20" heads for Felder J/P's. Nothing like a cross border road trip. Looking forward to getting them installed and giving them a workout.

[Darcy Warner]

Fresh off the truck today from Hermance. Slight delay as I sent the rotor in for the jointer so the head could be balanced with the rotor on it.

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[peter gagliardi]

Hoping to get your first impressions.
Steel head, correct?
Curious as to how much noise reduction, and how efficient that style head is for dust collection.
I am some years away from doing my 36" Greenlee planer.
So, pricing is similar to when I did the terminus heads about 12-15 years ago- it was $150.00 per lineal inch of cutterhead length.
Looks like the Hermance is running $156-160.00 per inch.
28" planer is an odd size- obviously euro.

[Darcy Warner]

Hoping to get your first impressions.
Steel head, correct?
Curious as to how much noise reduction, and how efficient that style head is for dust collection.
I am some years away from doing my 36" Greenlee planer.
So, pricing is similar to when I did the terminus heads about 12-15 years ago- it was $150.00 per lineal inch of cutterhead length.
Looks like the Hermance is running $156-160.00 per inch.
28" planer is an odd size- obviously euro.

The 28" head, 71CM, was 4350. So that's about 154.00 per inch at 5" diameter. The bigger the diameter, the more per inch. Yes they are steel.

It's for a Bauerle DM 71, built in the 60s.

I would think chip extraction would be really good since the inserts are in a chevron shape to funnel chips towards the middle.

[John Kee]

I my case there was a noticeable noise reduction especially with Dust Collection turned on, not so much when you just run the machine. Chip collection was the same but I never had an issue with the original Felder 4 knife head. I believe Matt was saying during our visit/pickup that they had done a few 48" machines. Definitely worth a visit if you are in the area.

[Darcy Warner]

One head fit great, the direct drive jointer head is all ____. Great job copying the original head.

[peter gagliardi]

Hopefully they can fix it, or they will get to make you a second one for it.
No excuses, especially if they had the old to copy.
Obviously it seems like quality control was on vacation.

[Darcy Warner]

Hopefully they can fix it, or they will get to make you a second one for it.
No excuses, especially if they had the old to copy.
Obviously it seems like quality control was on vacation.

New one is 1/2" longer than original. Normally, maybe not a big deal for a straight bore motor rotor, big deal when it's a tapered rotor and shaft.

Original

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New

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The operator side bearing retainer threads are not right. The oem nut will not thread on. Prints said 30mm 14tpi LH

OEM is 1 3/16 14tpi LH.

In theory it should fit as 30mm is 60 thousandths under, but one thread on and done.

[Peter Christensen]

That would be 6 thousandths under not 60 thousandths. 0.006 not 0.060 If it doesn't fit if could be 600 thousands and it is still out somehow.

[Darcy Warner]

That would be 6 thousandths under not 60 thousandths. 0.006 not 0.060 If it doesn't fit if could be 600 thousands and it is still out somehow.

Sorry, I did mean 6 thousandths. In theory, the nut should fit, but it sure as heck won't. After all 1 3/16 is larger than 30mm.

Oh well, they will be fixing this mess and paying for freight both ways.

[Darcy Warner]

Hermance had the jointer head picked up Monday by noon.

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[peter gagliardi]

Shiny! Nice looking machine too!

[David Kumm]

The old Bauerle stuff had style. thanks for the pictures. Dave

[Darcy Warner]

The old Bauerle stuff had style. thanks for the pictures. Dave

Yes they did. Impossible to find any info about it though.
Basically rebuilt gear box, and fixed or replaced everything some other guy touched at some point. Had bed ground.
Been a real pia.

[Brian Holcombe]

Beautiful work!

[Darcy Warner]

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[Darcy Warner]

Sorry about sideways pictures.

[Warren Lake]

Flipped them for you and below and one i missed also had the same brand of jointer.

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[Mark Hennebury]

That's a beautiful machine, real nice clean lines, great job. I saw quite a few Bauerle machines in Newfoundland back in the 70's at an old government shop, they had some huge jointers and tablesaws, I purchased a couple of W.Klein and sons planers, 24" combo jointer. planer and a 24" jointer. i also saw a weinig thicknesser there. Always like the Bauerle stuff. I saw a huge jointer at that place i believe it may have been a Bauerle also, i don't remember exactly how big it was but a lot bigger than the 24" one.

[Darcy Warner]

I have a Schwabedissen jointer in storage. It needs a new head. It's a 63cm wide machine.

[Mark Hennebury]

I have a Schwabedissen jointer in storage. It needs a new head. It's a 63cm wide machine.

What length overall; they made some nice looking jointers.

[Darcy Warner]

What length overall; they made some nice looking jointers.

IIRC, it's almost 9 feet long. Had a really strange head that had bladders that you pumped oil into to lock the knives in place. Probably going to use old head from this planer and have it machined to fit.

[John Sincerbeaux]

Great job and that planer. Beautiful machine.
Darcy, did you by chance put a Hermance head on a Northfield 16dd jointer?
Thanks

[Darcy Warner]

Great job and that planer. Beautiful machine.
Darcy, did you by chance put a Hermance head on a Northfield 16dd jointer?
Thanks

No I have not. Thinking about putting one in a 12" NF I have.

[Darcy Warner]

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Few things left.

[Jim Becker]

Wow..."monster" machine!

[Warren Lake]

tried to post this for you, see now has to have typing as well,




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