Extension fence ? I have parrallel to fence problems ripping

[Marc Jeske]

I have a Bies 52 fence properly setup, parallel w slot, parallel w blade, couple thou away from blade at out end.

Everytime I rip a long like 8' piece, whether full sheet or narrow board, somehow I manage to push the stock too hard to the fence, so the result is the far right corner moves away from fence slightly.

So then I end up w a ripped piece slightly narrow at that end.

I try and try to correct that, but it seems to happen almost always.

Only w stock like over 5-6ft +, NO problem w shorter lengths.

So I do believe it is from some incorrect pressure by my hands.

And I can see the gap happening as I put the board through the saw, but in my effort to keep stock against fence overall, it happens.

I do have good control of my hands and fingers as normal, but in this situation, feel lacking.

Anyone else have this problem ?

I am thinking of putting on a clamp on fence extension only for long stock rips to give me about 2 ft more of fence at infeed.

Thoughts ?

Marc

[Matt Day]

Are you using featherbords? That should be the first step if you’re not.

If you’re having this issue during the milking process and you’ve got a jointed edge against the fence and a rough edge at the blade, it can be difficult to use feather boards. In that case, rip 1/4” or so wider then use feather boards on the next pass to clean it up.

[Marc Jeske]

I should maybe clarify that I am not pushing against the fence like a Maniac and pushing the Bies out of square.

The problem seems to be I am not applying even pressure to the fence, too much at in, and not enough somehow at out.

Marc

[Joe Spear]

Maybe you're pushing on the end of the board close to you as you feed it into the blade, before that part of the board has reached the end of the fence. That would skew the far end away from the fence. Try using feather boards just in front of the blade to hold the stock tight against the fence as it approaches the the blade. And push the board against the fence only where it is on the table, not out in the space before it gets as far as the fence. If the board is moving away from the fence like that at the far end, I'm surprised you don't get some serious kickback.

[Stan Calow]

Marc, I have this problem when my riving knife is not parallel to the blade - pushes board out towards the end of the cut.

[Marc Jeske]

Yes, I am running straight edges of stock along fence.

Feather boards and Board Buddys help, sometimes I forget or lazy to use them..or stock too wide for feather, and too lazy to adjust Buddys.

Will consciously do so more often and see how it helps.

Ya, I do think I am pushing too much sideways and so rocking on the fence infeed end, but I keep doing it, somehow difficult not to.

Riving knife - I have an older powermatic Contractor saw, no riving knife readily available.

On my list is to contact Shark about a retro fit for that saw, also an old Rockwell 12/14 I'll be putting together later in spring.

So what about the extension fence I'm thinking on ?

Anyone get benefits from that?

Marc

[Jim Becker]

Remember, that board is a "lever" and a longer board is going to transmit more force from your hands than a short board will. You might want to consider clamping the back of the fence when you make these particular cuts on long boards and see if that helps with the situation since this type of fence only locks on the front rail.

[Bill Space]

Everytime I rip a long like 8' piece, whether full sheet or narrow board, somehow I manage to push the stock too hard to the fence, so the result is the far right corner moves away from fence slightly.

Marc

Mark,

I am far from being any kind of expert, but I wonder if you are applying too much force against the fence. I normally apply just enough pressure against the fence to keep the material riding against it. If your saw is well tuned, it seems to me that excessive force against the fence is unnecessary.

In my case, if I can use feather boards and hold downs, I do not bother applying any pressure against the fence at all. I just push the material through and let the feather boards do their job.

With sheet goods I apply the minimal pressure needed to keep the sheet against the fence. I let the blade do the work, and most of my effort, which is not that much, is used pushing the material past the blade.

Perhaps you are pushing the material too hard against the fence in all cases, but it is only showing up as a problem with longer pieces.

This is just my impression...perhaps food for thought...

Bill

[Andrew Hughes]

Have you checked to see if the fence is flat? I think a tablesaw fence should be straight and flat equal too or better then the edge that comes off the jointer.
Good luck

[Matt Day]

Instead of an extension fence as you’re calling it, try a work support ahead of the fence. I was going to say roller stand but I don’t like them much because unless they’re perfectly perpendicular to the feed direction it’ll push or pull you’re board. In any case, put a platform (or roller stand, etc) in front of the fence the same height as the TS top.

Let’s say we have a 5’ board. About 1’ of the board will be on the table saw, so place the work support so about a foot or two of the board hangs off the back. Start the saw and push forward on the board and slightly toward the fence, and use feather boards too (magnetic ones are quick and easy if the miter guage Type ones are too inconvenient to use). Don’t grab it from the back end of the board, stay at the fence rail and left of the board and feed the board through hand over hand. That way you’re close to the fence and blade the whole time.

Give that a shot.

[Marc Jeske]

I am in the process of designing in, out, and side extension tables.

That will help in general, and the extended infeed may help my problem as stated above by Matt and others.

About clamping the other end of fence... She's pretty darn solid, but I will check that out anyway.

Good comments.

Overall I think my problem is mostly the over leveraging a few mentioned, but I will check out the other comments to be sure.

I plan to buy like 3 hollow core Lauan doors as quick on, off, and store extensions.

Finalizing my thinking on the mountings, pop down legs, etc., to be able to accommodate all stock sizes w/o taking up more floor space than needed.

Marc

[Rick Potter]

If you think the fence is moving because of your hand pressure........I have a switchable magnet, made for holding machinists micrometers, that I got for about 6 bucks at Harbor Freight several years back.

I simply place it on the saw table near the end of the fence and switch it on. Easy. The magnet should hold. If not, and you push too hard, and still have the problem, the magnet will move, but still be attached, and the fence should spring back to prove you push too hard.

PS:
I have never tried it, but if your fence is set beyond the cast iron table, I think the magnet would still work by placing it on the steel angle rail at the back of the fence. The magnet is strong, and about 3" square. Might not hold quite as well because of the paint on the rail.

I have needed to do this a couple times with my Unifence. Usually turned out to be my fault for using wood that had lots of tension, and was trying to spread between the fence and the splitter.

[glenn bradley]

It is frustrating to work on a technique and continue to have a particular facet taunt us. I have a recurring 'oops' with hand sharpening if I am not diligent despite a gazillion hours of 'practice'. Here's the basic method I use for large panels:

372844

As others have mentioned a featherboard or other additional guide can be your friend here.

[Robert Engel]

If the fence is solid, then its a feed pressure issue.

A splitter will help a lot when ripping ply.

The thicker the ply, the easier it is to torque it and move the fence.

To elaborate on the pic that was posted:

Startout with diagonal pressure against the fence for about 1/3 of the cut, concentrating on maintaining the *entire* edge against the fence.

When the sheet is about 1/2 way thru the cut, beginning moving your body gradually changing the diagonal force to more longitudinal so that by the time the sheet start is 3/4 thru the cut, you are pretty much feeding it straight. The whole time you are focused on the edge-to-fence contact. Takes a little practice but you'll get the hang of it pretty quickly.

All this said, whenever possible I always break plywood down with a circ saw & guide prior to final cuts on the TS, mostly with 3/4 I just don't want to wrestle it anymore.

[Rod Sheridan]

The issue I find with conventional fences is that they have very little length before the blade, where you need accuracy, and lots of length after the blade where you don't even want any fence.

Have you tried experimenting with a clamp on fence extension that gives a couple more feet of infeed length and that ends around the blade arbour?

Regards, Rod.

[Marc Jeske]

Rod - In addition to checking out the other ideas above, yes, that's on the soon to do list.

The idea of stopping it short of the Bies factory end, need to think about that.

If you would, please explain advantage of that in more detail.

Marc

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Marc, the "short fence" is a standard item on many saws.

Once the wood is cut the fence can't influence that in any way except to add additional complications, that's why you don't need it to extend past the blade.

The most important area is the guiding before the blade, where the extra fence length allows more support and guidance for the piece.

When ripping solid wood it's customary for the fence to end at the beginning of the blade, usually somewhere around the gullet. This allows any movement of the pieces after sawing to not interact with the fence and steer the wood off course or bind.

Euro saws normally have a 3 function fence, high fence, low fence to allow clearance for bevels or push sticks and short/long for adjustment to the material being cut. The Delta Unifence could do short/long positioning.

Regards, Rod.

[Marc Jeske]

Glenn - Yes, very good image.

I do pretty much consciously do that.

Do you have a link to that article?

Would like to read the whole thing, couldn't find it.

Marc