How to know how much kitchen renovation adds to home value

[mike waters]

We bought a rehab.
the kitchen was old and awful.
building a new kitchen myself, total costs come to ~$6,500 (not including appliance cost)

when I got quoted (for fun) by cabinet shops in town - they were between $70,000 and $110,000.

since I did it myself, how do I know what value is added to my home?

[mike holden]

Have the house appraised by a professional appraiser who works for a bank or mortgage company.
Be aware that you may not want to know, as the location of the property is most important and a functioning kitchen is a functioning kitchen.
Mike

[mike waters]

Have the house appraised by a professional appraiser who works for a bank or mortgage company.
Be aware that you may not want to know, as the location of the property is most important and a functioning kitchen is a functioning kitchen.
Mike


Very stellar area. House was 6 figures, but got 40% off asking price.

i just was not sure if they ask to see ‘bills’ of work that was done or not

[Edwin Santos]

It's hard to believe you could do for $6500 in costs an outcome equivalent in scope to what others quoted you $70,000-$110,000. Congratulations if you accomplished a feat like that.

Yes, an appraiser should be able to give you an idea of the differential you added to your house value (if any) if you can show him/her some before and after photos. I often hear that kitchen and bath remodels are the most impactful on overall house value versus other improvements.

[Jared Sankovich]

Could be zero in additional value up to anything. Also I would expect 6500 in material to be a factor of between 3 and 6 of the estimated kitchen. I'm amazed at the discrepancy.

6 figures? Did you mean 7 @1mil+.

[Andrew Joiner]

Very stellar area. House was 6 figures, but got 40% off asking price.

i just was not sure if they ask to see ‘bills’ of work that was done or not

Since real estate is a market, prices are established by the marketplace. The only way to tell if you added value is to sell it immediately after the kitchen was changed.

Appraisers and real estate sales people may give you some numbers, but the marketplace has the final say. That may sound cynical, but I've seen many people buy "newly remodeled" houses and gut them. Peoples tastes vary.

[Hoang N Nguyen]

I believe it's hard to put a value to any reno project. You can list your house for whatever price you want but it comes down to the buyers and what they're willing to pay as well as how hot the market is in that area at that time. I listed my last house $50k higher than that of my neighbor 2 doors down, and he has the identical floor plan. He sold a year ahead of me and got full ask, I also got full ask but at a much higher price. As soon as my house went live on the market, I had a full ask offer within the first hour. At the same time, another neighbor listed her house for $35k higher than mine since she had an extra bedroom and extra full bath, her house sat on the market for 11 months and after dropping her price by $60k, she finally sold.

I'd like to believe the things I did to my house "helped" make it more appealing to buyers and aided in the quick sell. I did a full walk-in closet built-ins, built-ins for the family room, stones from ground to ceiling at the fireplace and finished my basement (400 sq. ft.). Honestly, I think I just got lucky. The lady that bought my house was a young single mom and she spent 75% of her time in my closet while looking at the house. During the closing, she told my wife she was popping champagne in the closet with her friends. If it were not for the closet built-ins (closet me $2k to build) it may have been a tougher sell.

[Mel Fulks]

The genius of kitchen scientists is that no matter how well equipped it is and expensive it was....the next owner will hate it! It's like dog houses ....original owner loves it! Subsequent owner won't use it and think it smells funny.

[mike waters]

It's hard to believe you could do for $6500 in costs an outcome equivalent in scope to what others quoted you $70,000-$110,000. Congratulations if you accomplished a feat like that.

Yes, an appraiser should be able to give you an idea of the differential you added to your house value (if any) if you can show him/her some before and after photos. I often hear that kitchen and bath remodels are the most impactful on overall house value versus other improvements.


Well, I was getting quoted (not kidding) 8-$1,200/linear foot of cabinetry.
if we lived 2 exits down the interstate they would’ve quoted me $300


All of my contractors have been ripping me off we’re trying to rip me off which has resulted in me doing most of my work except for Electrical I have a friend who is an electrician

Even the tile setters are trying to charge me $23 a square foot.. totally absurd

The home we purchased is in a seven figure neighborhood but our home was 40% off the asking price because of all the problems at hand.. so automatically the quotes jump

[mike waters]

Could be zero in additional value up to anything. Also I would expect 6500 in material to be a factor of between 3 and 6 of the estimated kitchen. I'm amazed at the discrepancy.

6 figures? Did you mean 7 @1mil+.

yes 7.

We have friends that live across town from us in Nolensville Tennessee and he referred a cabinet maker that they used to me to charge them $320 per foot he came over our house and automatically wanted to charge me 800..
I still remember them saying oh if you just want to did you painted cabinetry the price would be half but since you want to do teak I have to charge you more for that

Just ordered all of my material today from certainly would and and having superior veneer in Indiana land up on some MDF for me and total cost is 4300 for the material alone.

[mike waters]

The genius of kitchen scientists is that no matter how well equipped it is and expensive it was....the next owner will hate it! It's like dog houses ....original owner loves it! Subsequent owner won't use it and think it smells funny.

Hahahaha nice point

[andrew whicker]

6k in cash and how many hours of your time?

Houses are a form of an investment, sure. But as soon as you start to customize it for your own likes, then you are spending money on a 'nice to have' and no longer spending money on an 'investment'. Rental investors keep houses plain and maintained, which is how you treat an actual investment.

I've heard something along the lines of $.50 per $1 spent on a kitchen or bath and almost nothing on the other rooms (I think?). Whatever the average pro is charging is probably what it actually costs in time and labor. Not counting your labor with money doesn't mean you didn't spend it.

Anyway, just my free internet opinion. I plan on buying my 2nd house (rental) soon and am currently renting out the other half of my duplex that I live in. I try to think of my houses as realistically as possible. Have fun remodeling! It's fun to live inside your design vs someone else's.

[mike waters]

6k in cash and how many hours of your time?

Houses are a form of an investment, sure. But as soon as you start to customize it for your own likes, then you are spending money on a 'nice to have' and no longer spending money on an 'investment'. Rental investors keep houses plain and maintained, which is how you treat an actual investment.

I've heard something along the lines of $.50 per $1 spent on a kitchen or bath and almost nothing on the other rooms (I think?). Whatever the average pro is charging is probably what it actually costs in time and labor. Not counting your labor with money doesn't mean you didn't spend it.

Anyway, just my free internet opinion. I plan on buying my 2nd house (rental) soon and am currently renting out the other half of my duplex that I live in. I try to think of my houses as realistically as possible. Have fun remodeling! It's fun to live inside your design vs someone else's.


Many many many hours of my time LOL

[Art Mann]

I have to question the idea that $6,500 in materials is an appropriate amount of money to spend rehabilitating the kitchen of even a $300,000 house.

[Mel Fulks]

Mike,....so hard to gauge the value to someone else. We all have so many options. Been quite a while since someone said "this ice box doesn't need ice ...it MAKES ice!! My advice is the best way to enjoy your work is to ignore "new trends"

[Jared Sankovich]

I have to question the idea that $6,500 in materials is an appropriate amount of money to spend rehabilitating the kitchen of even a $300,000 house.

Wouldn't be hard for a 300k house. Especially if it's painted, assuming you only include the boxes, doors and drawers. Though in this area a 300k house is a trailer, a foreclosure or a knock down/scrape off in a bad neighborhood.

I'm having a hard time with $300/ft. Even the amish cabinet makers in rural PA are $600/ft for custom built.

Semi custom here in Northern Virginia is 1300+/ft

[mike waters]

I have to question the idea that $6,500 in materials is an appropriate amount of money to spend rehabilitating the kitchen of even a $300,000 house.

Sorry that you have to question it but for 3.50 square-foot veneered laid out on three-quarter MDF
Assembling and finishing comes out to 6500
The drawers for material comes out to 2900
Countertops are 6000
Rev shelf with servo drive 500
Two blanco SS sinks 1600

The quotes that I was getting from cabinet shots only included cabinetry not even yours and they were outrageously overpriced due to the neighborhood I live in and people bumping up the price because they think that we’re rich

[scott vroom]

$6,500 in retail material cost is low unless you really skimped on everything. Typical buyers of a 7 figure house may want to do a tear out and redo, in which case you just wasted six-and-a-half long ones.

[Jim Becker]

A kitchen renovation "can" have a positive effect on home value, but there are so many variables that it makes it almost impossible to calculate with any "accuracy". Premium materials and appliances can help, but you are not assured of any specific return. Doing my kitchen in 2003 didn't have a dramatic effect on RE value, but it certainly was accounted for in my insurance premium. Adding our addition had a more noticeable effect, although the timing wasn't ideal and it's only catching up to where it should be now almost 9 years later.

My advise? Just enjoy your new kitchen and don't worry about what it's doing for value unless this is a "flip home" and the time to sell is near term, rather than years down the road.

[mike waters]

I really wrote this all wrong.
the material for the carcass, panels and drawer faces is 6,500 (very nice teak and graphite oak)
the drawers are 2900
blum tip-on
servo drive uppers Aventos Hf are $2,000 total.
Countertops 6k
appliances were $23k (Miele)
our kitchen is 76 linear feet.
its not a cheap kitchen by any means.
the quotes I was getting was ONLY for the cabinetry not the drawers and they were minimum 70k

[Bill Graham]

Sorry to say but resale value is primarily determined by what other houses in your neighborhood have sold for with weight given to most recent sales. If you're lucky you'll get your $6500 back.

It'll make your house easier to sell if the potential buyer likes the choices you've made for colors and countertops but that's about it.

I spent $30K redoing my kitchen last year and I don't expect to see any return at all. Cabinets, countertops and appliances are fashion statements these days and what's hot today could be cold next week. If you're primarily concerned with resale value on a remodel you buy the latest, greatest and cheapest from the nearest Big Box store and hope you can sell before styles change.

If you now have a nice kitchen that makes your life easier then be happy with that. Unless you're adding square footage remodeling/renovation projects rarely come anywhere near paying for themselves.

[mike waters]

Sorry to say but resale value is primarily determined by what other houses in your neighborhood have sold for with weight given to most recent sales. If you're lucky you'll get your $6500 back.

It'll make your house easier to sell if the potential buyer likes the choices you've made for colors and countertops but that's about it.

I spent $30K redoing my kitchen last year and I don't expect to see any return at all. Cabinets, countertops and appliances are fashion statements these days and what's hot today could be cold next week. If you're primarily concerned with resale value on a remodel you buy the latest, greatest and cheapest from the nearest Big Box store and hope you can sell before styles change.

If you now have a nice kitchen that makes your life easier then be happy with that. Unless you're adding square footage remodeling/renovation projects rarely come anywhere near paying for themselves.

I understand that, thanks.
The previous kitchen was awful, the bathrooms had cracked tiles and was awful and no one has lived in it for the last three years.
There was mold in bathrooms etc.
it was bad
BUT now it is great! all the major issues are resolved for less than 15k.
Total cost for bathrooms is $14,000 (Four 5x10 bathrooms and one 300 sq. ft. master with 11 ft steam shower)
Refinished the floors (they were bad too) for $18k
We got the 7,100 sq. ft home for 840k (asking was 1.2m) and the homes in our neighborhood have sold 1.6m+ over last few years. There is one one the market now for 1.4 and it is 4,900 sq. ft.

I tore out all bathrooms (5 bathrooms) and the kitchen (giant). Doing most of the work myself.

Total out of pocket for us is ~$60k and the home will be absolutely stunning compared to how it was before.

Maybe that will give a better idea.

[andrew whicker]

Photos or it didn't happen

[Phillip Mitchell]

$6500 for a full kitchen remodel???

I have tiny, let me repeat, tiny basic kitchen in my sub-1000 sq ft house that I'm finishing up remodeling. I've done all the labor except laying the hardwood (~$500) and installing tile (~$800) New hardwood floors, cabinets (from Ikea...), fresh paint, custom countertops (I made), sink, tile backsplashes, fridge, custom milled hardwood trim for windows/doors, cherry baseboard and crown molding, blah blah blah...

We have around $13,000 just in material & appliance cost and were very, very selective and frugal in our choices. I have no idea how you could only have $6500 in all the material costs for a kitchen remodel. You'd be lucky to get cabinets from Ikea for anything larger than my kitchen for less than $4-5k alone.

I have hundreds and hundreds of hours of labor in this kitchen so far and know that it's important to me and my family to have something custom for us, which I'm sure you understand and can relate to. However, just bc you or I spent 500 hrs of labor on a custom kitchen remodel doesn't necessarily mean that it's worth any price to an appraiser or potential buyer. Kind of depends on how much they like it and how much of it they feel like they can live with if they buy the house. Clean, simple, and functional is huge for kitchen value, IMO.

[Bill Graham]

I understand that, thanks.
The previous kitchen was awful, the bathrooms had cracked tiles and was awful and no one has lived in it for the last three years.
There was mold in bathrooms etc.
it was bad
BUT now it is great! all the major issues are resolved for less than 15k.
Total cost for bathrooms is $14,000 (Four 5x10 bathrooms and one 300 sq. ft. master with 11 ft steam shower)
Refinished the floors (they were bad too) for $18k
We got the 7,100 sq. ft home for 840k (asking was 1.2m) and the homes in our neighborhood have sold 1.6m+ over last few years. There is one one the market now for 1.4 and it is 4,900 sq. ft.

I tore out all bathrooms (5 bathrooms) and the kitchen (giant). Doing most of the work myself.

Total out of pocket for us is ~$60k and the home will be absolutely stunning compared to how it was before.

Maybe that will give a better idea.


Mike,

Thanks for clearing things up, I assumed(and we all know what that means) you were improving the house you lived in.

You got a great deal on the purchase and stand to get a nice return for your effort on resale. Congrats!

[Chuck Saunders]

I think that is what folks were missing Mike. You were not taking a move in ready house and redoing the kitchen where the return on you upgrade is fully dependent on the whims of the market. You were bringing a sub standard kitchen up to snuff and that is what the market is expecting to see. If you were to sell this home on completion buyers would see a fresh complete move in ready home and they will pay accordingly instead of having to discount the offer to account for all of the work that would have to be done and if they don't want a project then no interest. I think you will do quite well and will be paid for your hours when you sell.
Chuck

[mike waters]

Photos or it didn't happen


Lol.. I have posted dozens of photos on multiple threads here

[Edwin Santos]

I think that is what folks were missing Mike. You were not taking a move in ready house and redoing the kitchen where the return on you upgrade is fully dependent on the whims of the market. You were bringing a sub standard kitchen up to snuff and that is what the market is expecting to see. If you were to sell this home on completion buyers would see a fresh complete move in ready home and they will pay accordingly instead of having to discount the offer to account for all of the work that would have to be done and if they don't want a project then no interest. I think you will do quite well and will be paid for your hours when you sell.
Chuck
This is a good point. Maybe it's not so much that you added value, but rather you removed a deficiency.

When the day comes to sell your home, you'll probably sell it faster and get a better price than had you not touched the kitchen, but you'll likely never know the specific dollar amount associated with the kitchen component. Plus the fact that you get to live with the upgraded kitchen during your time there is worth something also.

[Bill Adamsen]

I really wrote this all wrong.

I think I understood what you were saying and it made sense to me. I just did a kitchen and the hardware costs .... slides, hinges, handles, sheet goods, hardwood [$1000, $400, $600, $2200, $600] were relatively in line with your number. I bought the doors and drawers separately and those were expensive ... but I expect a lot less than the alternative of having me build them. But if I had built them the material costs would have been perhaps $2500. So adding up the estimated raw material costs ... $7300. It took about a month to assemble (would have been much longer if I'd built the drawers and doors) and two+ weeks to install. What else ... painting was $4000. Then the client spent a fair amount on appliances and fixtures, countertops, floor refinishing, and of course all the rough construction (framing, windows and doors, insulation, electrical, plumbing, sheetrock, trim). But outside of labor, I can see the hard cost of the kitchen being in alignment with your original estimate.

Your original question was about value ... I can't imagine someone basing their "value" on a collection of receipts. More likely – depending on where the house is located – they will look at the neighborhood and comps, and whether they feel the house is in "move in" condition. Having a well-executed, and desireable kitchen goes a long way towards making the house attractive and move-in ready. If it were not (and this is what goes to your question) the potential buyer would ask themselves, "is this work that needs to be done, and about how much would it cost to get what I want?" Likely their number is going to be closer to the cost of a professionally completed kitchen (than your actual expense) and perhaps in the $80k +/- range if indeed the kitchen you built is the one they want. Likely that amount (whatever it actually is) is the value you have added to the house.

[lee cox]

I spent the last 3 months on a kitchen remodel on our home mainly to install a Viking 6 burner range with a Viking hood. The cabinet's varnish had turned that old orange nontransparent look. The cabinets were made out of fancy maple wood in the 60's. So I modified them for the range and refinished them. Of course I ended up redoing the rest of the kitchen because it looked bad after redoing the cabinets. This was for our pleasure but it probably added value to the home.

PS
I had a friend helping. He had done many kitchens remodels before.

I guess size makes a difference in the time it takes. My kitchen size is 22 x 15.5 feet by 10 feet high.

[Rick Alexander]

I have to question the idea that $6,500 in materials is an appropriate amount of money to spend rehabilitating the kitchen of even a $300,000 house.

Not in my mind - depends on a lot of things - how much glass, how much moving electrical/plumbing, flooring or tile, lots of things. I could do an awful lot with $6,500 materials only - not including appliances - just won't be able to use things like fancy Italian countertops or all tempered glass door fronts. In my case I'm using sawmilled lumber solids (have my own kiln), UV ply boxes, and veneered faces (have a bandsaw to make the veneer and a press to make the faces).

[Steve Milito]

We just finished a kitchen remodel. Originally, I wanted to make the cabinets myself but that idea was nixed by senior management. We got two bids, one semi-custom and one from a custom cabinet shop I used before. Anyone buying an expensive house (mid six to entry 7 figure) is going to expect a really nice kitchen. In my kitchen we had over 100 pulls, even at $10/ ea that's over $1000. Drawer slides are $35/ ea. Magic corners for the blind corners are $600+. The finish can drastically alter the price of cabinets, are they painted white or are the glazed, brushed, and distressed? Yes, a simple kitchen can be done for minimal materials but a kitchen that screams attention to detail and craftsmanship will cost substantially more for both materials and labor. Admittedly, I don't have the skills necessary to do the finishes that were done to my cabinets and was happy to support true craftsmanship. Many people here can but not me. Yes, if you can do that quality work, then you added value.

[Derek Cohen]

We bought a rehab.
the kitchen was old and awful.
building a new kitchen myself, total costs come to ~$6,500 (not including appliance cost)

when I got quoted (for fun) by cabinet shops in town - they were between $70,000 and $110,000.

since I did it myself, how do I know what value is added to my home?

I spent several months earlier this year renovating our kitchen. I saved the carcases, but replaced all the doors and drawers, building them myself from Hard Maple, replaced the counter tops with granite and all the tiled splashbacks with tinted glass. Excluding the new range hood, ceramic hob and new fridge/freezer, we spent around $10k on that area.

https://s19.postimg.org/h6gbb1gar/kitchen.jpg

(I am presently building three Windsor bar stools to replace those in the picture).

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/KitchenComplete_html_1b7aa2cc.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/KitchenComplete_html_m7d30b8fc.jpg

Will this increase the value of our home? Probably not. What it will do (if we chose to sell) is make the house more desirable. That may help us get the price we want. In that sense a new kitchen adds to the value of a house.

I believe that it is really only a rough guide to look at the selling prices in a neighbourhood. These say more about the property value than about the house value.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Victor Robinson]

In any given area, houses sell for a range of price/sqft. You can figure out the range for your neighborhood pretty easily by looking at recent sales and dividing by the square footage.

If the house is very old and needs updating, but livable, you'll of course be at the low end of that range. If the kitchens/baths/etc. all are decent, but say, 10-20 years old, maybe you'll be in the middle. If the house is recently updated (to non-eclectic tastes), you'll be at the high end. And if all the fixtures and finishes are of the highest quality and the house is renovated top to bottom (with permits) and never lived in after renovation, then you'll fetch the highest end of that range or even push it higher.

It's not about how much x improvement adds - it's the overall condition and desirability of the house. That all being said, you've clearly done a lot of work to what was a total fixer and you'll reap the rewards when you sell. In the right market there is a tremendous amount of sweat equity to be gained.

[Martin Wasner]

since I did it myself, how do I know what value is added to my home?

Sell it.

Extra characters

[mike waters]

I spent several months earlier this year renovating our kitchen. I saved the carcases, but replaced all the doors and drawers, building them myself from Hard Maple, replaced the counter tops with granite and all the tiled splashbacks with tinted glass. Excluding the new range hood, ceramic hob and new fridge/freezer, we spent around $10k on that area.

https://s19.postimg.org/h6gbb1gar/kitchen.jpg

(I am presently building three Windsor bar stools to replace those in the picture).

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/KitchenComplete_html_1b7aa2cc.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/KitchenComplete_html_m7d30b8fc.jpg

Will this increase the value of our home? Probably not. What it will do (if we chose to sell) is make the house more desirable. That may help us get the price we want. In that sense a new kitchen adds to the value of a house.

I believe that it is really only a rough guide to look at the selling prices in a neighbourhood. These say more about the property value than about the house value.

Regards from Perth

DerekThank you! and sweet kitchen by the way
that backsplash is pretty rad - what is it?

[mike waters]

I think I understood what you were saying and it made sense to me. I just did a kitchen and the hardware costs .... slides, hinges, handles, sheet goods, hardwood [$1000, $400, $600, $2200, $600] were relatively in line with your number. I bought the doors and drawers separately and those were expensive ... but I expect a lot less than the alternative of having me build them. But if I had built them the material costs would have been perhaps $2500. So adding up the estimated raw material costs ... $7300. It took about a month to assemble (would have been much longer if I'd built the drawers and doors) and two+ weeks to install. What else ... painting was $4000. Then the client spent a fair amount on appliances and fixtures, countertops, floor refinishing, and of course all the rough construction (framing, windows and doors, insulation, electrical, plumbing, sheetrock, trim). But outside of labor, I can see the hard cost of the kitchen being in alignment with your original estimate.

Your original question was about value ... I can't imagine someone basing their "value" on a collection of receipts. More likely – depending on where the house is located – they will look at the neighborhood and comps, and whether they feel the house is in "move in" condition. Having a well-executed, and desireable kitchen goes a long way towards making the house attractive and move-in ready. If it were not (and this is what goes to your question) the potential buyer would ask themselves, "is this work that needs to be done, and about how much would it cost to get what I want?" Likely their number is going to be closer to the cost of a professionally completed kitchen (than your actual expense) and perhaps in the $80k +/- range if indeed the kitchen you built is the one they want. Likely that amount (whatever it actually is) is the value you have added to the house.

thanks bill!
The old kitchen was just awful and unrealistic... Gas burnerm on tiny middle island with a downdraft vent. Doors everywhere, chipped countertops etc. (old granite too, from 1992) it had double ovens that were 24"... in a 1million dollar neighborhood - it was painted like a barn - heavy brush strokes with this awful white color.. They had black and white 4x4 tile as backsplash - with this awful tile on the floor as well that was lipping so bad - i cut my foot on it.

The kitchen now has (or will have)
Wood floors that are inlaid with the previous floors for seamless transition.
36 legraboxes with servo-drive aventos HF struts for the uppers.
Tip-on everywhere else.
wave switches under the uppers that are conocealed
and a routed out light track under the uppers for LED strips that are concealed as well.
8" x 48" slate tile as backsplash
two 36" bluestar wall ovens
induction 36" cooktop miele
miele everything else
stainless blanco sinks with Blanco Faucets/pot-filler
But most of all - extremely functional

[Bill Adamsen]

All sounds nice. I think Martin captured it in another post. To know how much value it added? Sell it!

[Derek Cohen]

....
that backsplash is pretty rad - what is it?

Mike, the backsplash is tinted glass.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[paul cottingham]

Its funny. I know a couple who spent 25k Canadian on a kitchen reno. They are convinced it raised the value of their house by a huge amount. But...the fridge and stove/oven are on opposite sides of the island. The cupboards come down right to the countertops, leaving almost no usable counters. There is a massive island, that you need to walk around to get to the fridge. When you walk in to the kitchen it immediately seems "off," even if you can't put your finger on why. They had several people tell them the design doesn't work, but wouldnt listen. Cooking in there is exhausting. But it looks "fancy."
My point? Get feedback on your design. Listen to it. If i bought their house, i would likely rip the kitchen out. And I'm not a "renovator." Hell we still have the Ikea style kitchen our house had when we bought it, with no intention of renovating it (yet!) Well, the cook in me, no. The woodworker in me, yes!

[Warren Lake]

timing is one of the biggest factors.

We just sold the old guys home for 519k. in feb march april when the market was insane one down the road a bit nicer than his finished basement went for 825 or more. that home now is worth around 600 or less. thats a massive difference and had nothing to do with anything other than the market was running out of control when he bought it. Wonder how that guy feels now knowing his home is worth 25 percent less than he paid for it and how long will it be to come back up to the value of what he paid for it.

Also its just the right person being there right time. I had a home listed with real estate to rent and they brought me junk three tennants no one would want, paid them some money to go away and listed it myself in eh local paper, got a lady exec who was there for two years and treated it better than her own custom home she had just sold. I had no skill set real estate had, it was just timing and there happened to be the right person when I put an ad and not when real estate did their thing.

[Patrick Kane]

Didn't see anyone mention it, but it's pretty easy to come up with comparable properties and ballpark the value of your home. In the case of your kitchen Reno, look at other recent home sales in your neighborhood and see if the listing still has photos of the kitchen. Is your kitchen better, worse, or the same as theirs? Judging by what your bids were, yes, I think you added substantial value to the home with the kitchen reno. To determine "how much" you added strictly by doing the kitchen, you would need to find a few comparable houses with vastly different kitchens and then compare sale prices. This would be really difficult to have all attributes apples to apples except for the kitchens.

[Art Mann]

We are talking about a $1M class house. I would expect to pay more than $6500 just for counter tops. Those can't be home made.


Not in my mind - depends on a lot of things - how much glass, how much moving electrical/plumbing, flooring or tile, lots of things. I could do an awful lot with $6,500 materials only - not including appliances - just won't be able to use things like fancy Italian countertops or all tempered glass door fronts. In my case I'm using sawmilled lumber solids (have my own kiln), UV ply boxes, and veneered faces (have a bandsaw to make the veneer and a press to make the faces).

[Rick Malakoff]

The genius of kitchen scientists is that no matter how well equipped it is and expensive it was....the next owner will hate it! It's like dog houses ....original owner loves it! Subsequent owner won't use it and think it smells funny.

I gotta go with Mel on that. In 1980 I had just finished a big kitchen remodel close to 100K and the owner said "Rick if I ever sell this house the first thing the new owner will do is rip out the kitchen".
I thought he was crazy, since that day the kitchen has been remodeled 3 times with each new owner.
Rick

[Bill Adamsen]

I don't think Mike was including countertops, fixtures maybe even hardware (handles) ... his $6500 was for the materials (sheet goods) for carcases, (wood for) drawers, doors, drawer fronts, face frame (if any) and any other visible panels plus finish as well as the slides and hinges to put it all together. Basically the materials. To me that's a very "rational" accounting because it is the same way I think of the cost for a kitchen. Labor and materials. And from that perspective the $6500 is a feasible number. Of course I would likely buy the drawers, doors, and drawer fronts ... so that would shift dollars from the labor pile to the materials pile. When I do a project around the house, I consider my labor to have no value or cost ... so typically I shift as much as possible to labor.

The other items we all realize is required to complete a kitchen include: counters, electrical, plumbing, lighting, fixtures and appliances. That's is almost always the most significant investment, and typically has the most variability. But it is also chosen at the perogative of the client and fulfilled by the general contractor. Occasionally a contract arrises that we fill ... solid wood countertop, concrete countertops (formwork), special interior trim ... but from my perspective it is typically outside the scope of the cabinetmaker's work.

[Andrew Joiner]

When I do a project around the house, I consider my labor to have no value or cost ... so typically I shift as much as possible to labor.



That's so true for me as well Bill. After all I'm a hobbyist now.

[Dale Murray]

How I deal with this math in my own house is what would a reasonable project be for my area.

In my area a typical kitchen remodel is $20k.
If the ROI is 80% that would net $16k at resale.
If I do it myself and it costs me $7,000 that means I made a $9,000 profit on my work.

Doing it myself, I also will have a much higher quality kitchen than the typical $20k remodel, however, I cannot base my math on that. If my job is comparable to a $30k job, I still live in a market where $20k is the standard.

an $80k house with a $100k kitchen does not result in a $180k house.

[Derek Cohen]

The typical kitchen in my neighbourhood runs $30-40K, at least. Of the $10K I spent on my build, only $2500 was timber. I was able to re-use carcases, and did not cost in the labour of building 25 frame-and-panel doors plus all the drawer fronts, all in solid Hard Maple. I am a hobbiest, and this was fun for me. I posted my photos to provide a size to gauge against.

I do believe that $6500 is doable, if you do it yourself. It just depends on the materials you use, and how you use them. Still, as I mentioned earlier, it will not add value to a house. Kitchens are commodities that get rebuilt every decade it seems. Ours was overdue after 22 years.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Martin Wasner]

an $80k house with a $100k kitchen does not result in a $180k house.

Oddly enough.... I bought a house for $40k. Put about an $80k worth of kitchen remodel into it, and sold it for $140k. I also re-did the bathroom, re-trimmed the main level, and new carpet throughout. Most of that gain was realistically from the market rebounding. I could've likely made as much not lifting a finger as I did pouring $40k worth of material and about 1000 hours of labor into that house over the three years I owned it. All in all, that house should've been knocked down and burned. I don't know what everything I did would've cost had I hired it out, but I'm guessing close to $200k

I totally agree with you btw. My house was an anomaly buying it at the very bottom, and raking the bank that held the title over the coals as they were just trying to dump everything because the sky was falling.

To the OP, without knowing the neighborhood, school distict, condition of the rest of the home, current state of the mechanical, roof, windows, etcetera. (even the season and whether or not the school year is on has an affect on home prices) Nobody on the internet is going to know what you added to your house, if anything. Say you paid $800k for a house in a neighborhood that homes typically sell for north of a million. Great. But what if your house is like the pile of crap I bought for $40k? You might've over paid by $200k, and now it's worth $640k instead of the $600k it was worth pre kitchen remodel? Sometimes there isn't enough glitter in the world to roll that turd in to make it shiny. My last house, was that case. I should've torched it, but couldn't swing the cost of replacing it, even though I got it for less than the lot was worth today.

I work in a neighborhood once in a while that is historic. A complete pile of crap ready for a few gallons of diesel and a match sells for over $800k. But, you can't do that, since it's historic. Inevitably what happens is somebody comes in, pays the $800k, then drops another couple of million dollars into it to make it right, and everyone is happy. That demographic is few and far between though. It's a niche within a niche. Most would rather forgo the status of living in that neighborhood and just buy something that needs to be torn down in another area a few blocks away that is already well into the gentrification process. That's why I say, you can't really KNOW what it's worth until it is sold. The rest is purely speculation.

[johnny means]

It's hard to believe you could do for $6500 in costs an outcome equivalent in scope to what others quoted you $70,000-$110,000. Congratulations if you accomplished a feat like that.

Yes, an appraiser should be able to give you an idea of the differential you added to your house value (if any) if you can show him/her some before and after photos. I often hear that kitchen and bath remodels are the most impactful on overall house value versus other improvements.

Not hard to believe at all. Really, how much raw material is in a large kitchen. 10x raw material is not unrealistic.

[mike waters]

I work in a neighborhood once in a while that is historic. A complete pile of crap ready for a few gallons of diesel and a match sells for over $800k.

hahahaha this is a good one! love your writing LOL!!

thanks for the other tips by the way.
Our house is built very well, it is solid. It sold for so much less because most people who are purchasing this caliber of a home are not young and have already "renovated" homes throughout their lives.
That is what my neighbors told me at least.

When we moved in they said, "We knew you'd have kids and would be young! How exciting!"
When I asked how they knew that, the above was their reasoning.

Brick home, 6" studs, very solid.

Really the only issue was mold in bathrooms (not even major mold) and the tile was awful because original owner did it himself.

[Jim Dwight]

I think "enjoy and forget it" and "it depends on the buyer and the time you are selling" are great answers.
I think purchased cabinets would be at least 4X the cost of the materials. I just used Kraft Maid cabinets on a complete gut job kitchen in our house. I am sure I could have made them for 1/4 what I paid but my wife wouldn't wait. We went with all plywood boxes and the doors are solid maple but it is still not a lot of material. Plywood is also high grade. Drawers are solid maple and dovetailed. I don't think it's junk but I wish I had the time to build it and the resulting dollar savings.
My total experience, however, is one kitchen I built two houses ago, one island in the last house, and now this kitchen. I also notice that I accept the compromises or minor issues in things I make better than I do similar issues with things I spent a bunch of money on. I enjoy being around things I made is another way to say it. Can't put a price on that.
I put the cabinets in, the appliances in, laid the ceramic tile in two bathrooms, painted, and did all the trim work. I also did the other finish electrical (fixtures, outlets, etc). So there is some of my work in the finished project - and I saved some. I also had to finish up/clean up after every contractor I hired.

[mike waters]

Still need to add the soffit, backsplash, and the toe kick.
Also need to set up the server drives for the bifold uppers.

[Mark Bolton]

So your 10 months in to your saga, your first post said you'd be building a 70-110K kitchen for 6500 in materials, then later another list was north of 50K-60K and didnt include hinges/pulls/hardware/finishing (the finishing alone is worth a fortune). How do you feel you came out? When I read your second tally and the actual material costs were more than high dollar estimates you received I began to wonder.

[Jared Sankovich]

Interesting design. Was the bulkhead a requirement or ascetic decision?

[fRED mCnEILL]

I had a similar experience when I reno-ed our kitchen about 15 years ago. I bought ALL the hardwood material from a local sawmill and the sheet goods from a lumberyard specializing in seconds. Had to work around some of the defects in sheets and had to mill all the hardwood. But my expenditure was similar and I estimated somewhere between 70 and a hundred grand for commercial cabinets. Its hard to say what some people fall in love with which triggers a sale.But I have to say that the comment over the years from other women who have been in our kitchen tells me it would have been a key selling point. And the real clincher-my wife still loves it 15 years later.

[mike waters]

So your 10 months in to your saga, your first post said you'd be building a 70-110K kitchen for 6500 in materials, then later another list was north of 50K-60K and didnt include hinges/pulls/hardware/finishing (the finishing alone is worth a fortune). How do you feel you came out? When I read your second tally and the actual material costs were more than high dollar estimates you received I began to wonder.

Hey mark! It ended up that the materials cost (hinges, servio-drive for uppers, tip-on on all drawers, etc) was $14,230.
the appliances cost another 25k (though, I don’t consider that ‘cost of building’) I was mainly referring toninstall/cabinet materials.

i am happy with everything.
I’m the base cabinets against the wall are made of teak on moisture resistant MDF.
Both islands are made of a dyed European white oak.
Veneered panels were cut on panel saw and ran through an edgebander. Then sanded with 180, sprayed, then sanded with 320 and sprayed again. (SW conversion varnish)
The uppers are bi-fold servo-drive Aventos HF.
servo-drive trash can.
tip-on drawers glides everywhere else, with maple dovetail drawer boxes (I priced out legrabox boxes and the effort involved and decided not to do them)
Zero handles anywhere, it’s all push to open and slide to close.

the uppers are push to open and there is a hole bored on each side that has a servio-drive switch you push to close them with.

the countertops are Empire Grey by daltile. It’s a quartz. I bought the slabs directly from the warehouse here in Nashville for $1,000 each. I needed 3 slabs. I got a fabricator whocharge med $18/sq. Ft. Total including slabs was 6,500 for countertops (including the floating vanities I made for our master/kids bathrooms.
they did a so-so job... nothing anyone else would notice but me (or some of you on here) the normal person would notice 1mm gap where countertop meet me end panel. I got what I paid for on that one...

i did kot lurchase any drawer inserts yet, it’s not really a needed feature yet. We are still waiting on the cooktop to come in and are not even using the kitchen yet.\

Sorry for the ADD message, it is super late and i am exhausted!
The hardest part? Was adjusting those bi fold doors so the reveals were 3mm all around. Adjusting 34 drawers with 3mm reveals was not fun either...

[mike waters]

Interesting design. Was the bulkhead a requirement or ascetic decision?

Well, I think the bifold doors (blum Adventist HF with servo drive) is really awesome. Everyone I have showed them too mouth has dropped (literally) the. The next words are, “that is so awesome”.
the aervo srive switches are programmed so the doors do not collide with one another. And there’s is a switch you push to close them so you don’t need to reach up.

[Biff Phillips]

I have to question the idea that $6,500 in materials is an appropriate amount of money to spend rehabilitating the kitchen of even a $300,000 house.

It's possible. My house is not 300k, but we live in a much cheaper area of the country. It has approximately 30 linear feet of cabinets (base) a little more on the uppers.

Quartz Countertops and sink $2000-2500 (do not know exact amount)
Maple: about $1000 at an action (I had a lot left over)
Plywood for the bottoms/island (uppers all solid wood): 3/4 and a few sheets of 1/4, Menards maple (since only the inside showed, the outside was real maple)... about 400
Finishes, knobs, drawer slides, etc: about 1000

Total: about 6k

[Biff Phillips]

I understand that, thanks.
The previous kitchen was awful, the bathrooms had cracked tiles and was awful and no one has lived in it for the last three years.


This is what everyone is overlooking.
If you had a nice kitchen already, ripped it out, and replaced it.. then yes, very little appreciation. Maybe none.
Part of the reason why the house was marked down 40% was because the kitchen was a mess, and most people want "move in ready"
A million dollar house (marked down 400k from damage) going from an awful/broken kitchen to an acceptable kitchen? Hard to say exactly, but I am guessing at least a 50k jump. But of course, this assumes the rest of the house has been repaired too..
Of course, you need an expert appraiser to know for sure.

[Brad Shipton]

Everybody says really cool to servo drives until you tell them the price. That stuff sells well in the high end market, but in the low to mid range, you put that stuff in because you want it, not to increase your value. Same thing applies with a $10k built in firdge, $7k range, $3k hood, $2k microwave, $2k sink..... The solid surface counter adds good value, and sure will make a home show better. At the end of the day the value is based more on the comps, and less about details.