Green woodworking?

[Tony Pisano]

I was at a friend's house last week and she had been watching some episodes from the UK on green woodworking. They made a few basic things and worked up to a chair using all hand tools and a spring pole lathe. Another one showed hollowing small logs and grooving the inside to accept a bottom made of dry wood so that when the log section shrunk it would make a tight container. I never heard any mention of what to do to control checking or splitting. This hands on style has really sparked my curiosity, but how do pcs dry without splits and checks. Also, are there any really good books out there. I've learned most of what I know from books and being willing to try new things

[Jim Koepke]

After turning green wood it helps to put it in a closed container of denatured alcohol. You would likely find more information on this in the turning forum.

A lot of 'rustic' chair makers use green wood and there is a system of joinery to take advantage of the shrinkage to make the joints tighter.

The log containers are sometimes called 'shrink boxes'. Not sure if it was Pop Wood or Fine Woodworking that recently had an article on this.

Some woods shrink more than others. One of my quick projects is to cut sections of 3" firewood logs or branches and then use one of my largest forestner bits to bore it out for a pencil cup. One in my shop is used for metal implements like rules, dividers, knives and such. If one wants to get creative make the bottom close to a knot or branch and turn that into an eye. Then tell the person you give it to that this will keep an eye on your pens and pencils.

jtk

[Normand Leblanc]

Videos that OP talk about.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKhsNALWkeBJXKgOFP1DNoOv2wEsJa2_5

[Mike Holbrook]

Drew Langsner- "Green Woodworking", "The Chairmakers Workshop". Peter Galbert- "Chairmakers Notebook". Wille Sundqvist- Swedish Carving Techniques. Willie's son made a DVD. Try to reach Drew at Country Workshops in NC before he closes it down. Highland Woodworking may have books or DVD's too, as they offer chair making classes.

Most chairmakers build a small drying kiln, which may just be a light bulb or two inside a drum or plywood container. Parts can be placed inside a plastic bag with drawknife shavings too. The Chairmaking books will have more information on making kilns....Peter Galbert is very active, has a Blog. Schwarz sells Galbert's book at Lost Art Press. Chris Schwarz got interested in making chairs, benches...from green wood. He has a recent DVD on building a full size Rubo workbench from green wood and has bee working on older "Roman Workbenches". Schwarz's "The Anarchist's Design Book" sort of bridges the gap between typical woodworking and green woodworking.

[David Bassett]

... are there any really good books out there. ...

Peter Follansbee's blog and appearances, e.g. on the Woodwright's Shop, all seem to fall into the broader category.

As far as books, they seem to specialize in specific projects within the field. Some I remember as mentioned as classics are:

Make a Joint Stool from a Tree: An Introduction to 17th-century Joinery (https://lostartpress.com/collections/books/products/make-a-joint-stool-from-a-tree) by Jennie Alexander and Peter Follansbee

Chairmaker’s Notebook (https://lostartpress.com/collections/books/products/chairmakers-notebook) by Peter Galbert

I don't know how traditional this one is, I remember was recently mentioned as soup to nuts for chairs, starting with green wood. Also, for a very different culture, but still mostly green woodwork:

Woodworking in Estonia (https://lostartpress.com/collections/books/products/woodworking-in-estonia)

An interesting subset I've been interested in recently is Spoon Carving. (I need a specific size, came into an off-cut about that size, Pop Wood's store put Jarrod Stone Dahl's "The Art of Spoon Carving" DVD on sale, and Robin & JoJo Wood's Wood Tools had a sale on carving axes all at the same time. Research has been fun, maybe I'll achieve a spoon some day....) The Wood's and Peter Follansbee all have spoon carving videos online, which differ in only in details, and are consistent with Dahl's DVD. (I think Robin Wood is considered more of a lathe guy, but I haven't investigated that.) They've mentioned several people, which linked to people, one of them, "Barn the Spoon" has written a book. Look it up on Amazon and you will be offered many more to choose from. These are my next avenue of research.

[Mike Holbrook]

There are a few "other" principals regarding working with green wood. Larger pieces of wood, logs for instance, can take many years to dry, thin pieces like chair spindles dry faster, frequently with less cracking as there is less moisture to escape and cause changes. Many green wood workers split logs into smaller pieces, then work the smaller pieces into even smaller pieces ASAP so they have less problems with cracking. If the pieces of wood being worked have the grain running the length of the pieces then the pieces are stronger, more flexible, and more consistent/predictable in moisture loss.

Most chair makers have another devise they use regularly, a steam box. Pieces of wood may be steamed and then bent back into shape or bent into some shape needed to build a chair. I was blown away at the compound shapes a piece of white oak can be bent into for something like a Continuous Arm Windsor Chair. Dry wood is actually even easier to bend than green wood. The moisture is not what causes the wood to bend, heat makes the wood more flexible.

I just bought a new home in North Georgia. The first level of the house is built from solid logs. Just about every log has cracks in it. These cracks are regarded as character and charm not a potential issue. We had a new entrance added on to the house, it was built with untreated, green timbers. Most wood workers realize that moisture content in a given piece of wood constantly changes. It may help to consider how to manage moisture loss and gain vs trying to eliminate it.

In the area I am moving to furniture is frequently made from small green trees with the bark left on. These thinner pieces of wood that retain their natural bark dry entirely differently than raw, treated or kiln dried lumber.

[Roger Nair]

Tony, for a good grounding on wood properties read Understanding Wood by Bruce Hoadley. In the matter of checking there can be a number of reasons for checks to form among the major causes rapid end grain drying, drying rapidly in sunlight, growth characteristics, log conversion method, kiln drying before free water evaporates and the queen mother, heart center. With heart center, it is the differential between radial and tangential shrinkage and with heart wood present the piece will literally tear itself open to relieve the tension.

For green woodworking avoid or remove heart center, wax coat end grain, avoid direct sunlight and dry slowly without raising heat above room temperature.

[Tony Pisano]

Thank you all for the replies. This gives me plenty of information to research and wet my whistle. Last spring, I did turn a pc on the lathe to make a club for pounding in garden stakes and such. I'm not sure what kind of wood it was. It did split along the length fairly deeply as it dried, but still worked. About 8 or 10 years ago, I opened up a couple of narrow rooms to make a sewing/weaving room. At the time I called my brother in law who was a logger to see if he knew where I could get some rather big beams. He said he had just broight a bunch of pine logs to 2 old brothers who ran a sawmill, and I should call them up and tell them what size to cut them. I ended up getting a dozen 8ft long 8x8 beams for $10 each delivered. There was quite a bit of splitting and some pine borer grubs that came out of them after I got them up, but they look really sweet, in fact one person that visited said they liked the way I exposed the original beams in my old millhouse that was built in the 1870's. Sometimes the checking and splitting is a bonus.