Castle 100 Pocket Hole Machine

[richard poitras]

Anyone try or have one of these new Castle 100 Pocket Hole Machines? If so let us know your thoughts. Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ0FnXT3x_E

[Joe Jensen]

I always got too much slip with the Kreg system. The castle looks like the joint slips way less but just a little. I might give it a try when I have some production grade work today.

[Mike Kreinhop]

At $450 for a machine that requires manual clamping, a separate drilling operation, and is designed for only 3/4" material (requires shimming for thinner material), I'll stick with my Kreg DB210.

[David Kumm]

I hope some will chime in as to a comparison of the Kreg and Castle systems. I've been told that joint creep is an issue with Kreg and Castle minimizes that and provides a cleaner looking pocket but have no experience with either. Up to now the smallest Castle was the 12 and they seldom come up used ( usually an indication that they are liked ). The bigger Castle units are out of reach for hobby use so the new 100 may fill a need. I think the 450 includes the router, bits, and a clamp. It looks like it is handy for panel use vs the larger 12. Dave

[Peter Quinn]

I use a castle floor model at work, definitely suffers less creep than the kreg system, stuff just doesn't slide around as much especially with glue, but parts can still move, so secure clamping still required. Guy in the video link above talks a lot about the "look" of the screw slot. I'd file that under who really cares? Seriously...they are both ugly! But its hidden joinery, so to me irrelevant. For the money I'd think a kreg forman might be faster and easier than that two step process. The castle floor models are super convenient, ours has a foot pedal that activates the whole cycle, could probably do 30 slots per minute if you could move the wood that fast.

[Martin Wasner]

For $450, I'd spend another $1k and get a used TSM21.

Castle does make a superior pocket. The angle is lower, it's actually predrilled all the way through the material, it's adjustable in every way you'd need it to be, and it places the centerline of the screw head much deeper into the material.

I have two at work, I wouldn't go another way. Be wary of the used ones with the light duty Porter Cable trim router for the pilot hole drilling. They aren't made anymore and they're kind of a crappy router so they do go out.

[Martin Wasner]

Also, if you have a TSM 21 already, get a half inch shank, (it comes with a 3/8" collet), 3/8" fluting bit and set it so it cuts the pocket as shallow as possible. You can crank the cycle speed up significantly. The HSS bits last a long time of your just cutting hardwood, engineered material beats them up pretty quickly though.

[Jared Sankovich]

For $450, I'd spend another $1k and get a used TSM21.

Castle does make a superior pocket. The angle is lower, it's actually predrilled all the way through the material, it's adjustable in every way you'd need it to be, and it places the centerline of the screw head much deeper into the material.

I have two at work, I wouldn't go another way. Be wary of the used ones with the light duty Porter Cable trim router for the pilot hole drilling. They aren't made anymore and they're kind of a crappy router so they do go out.

How quick are the 21s to adjust to center on different thickness of stock? Like going from 3/4 to 1&3/16 face frames?

[Rick Potter]

I have a Castle TSM21, and an old style Kreg Foreman (electric model). I am just a hobby guy, but my experience is that the Castle makes a better pocket hole, and I especially like that it also completes the screw hole.

This being said, I actually use my Kreg Foreman much more. As a hobbyist, I do not like to bother getting the Castle out from the back of the shop and fire up the compressor to make just a dozen holes. I have the Foreman setting on a bench, lined up with my RAS and my CMS. It serves as an additional table to hold long stock, so it stays there, ready to go. I often turn to it because it is there, and works fine. I intend to sell the Castle when I get around to the next step in clearing out little used machines. Tool junkie trying to reform.

I also had a Porter Cable Benchtop copy of the older small Castle benchtop. It worked fine, but was more trouble than the Foreman, because of the manual clamp. I loaned it permanently to a friend.

For commercial use, I would have the Castle out in the shop permanently set up, but for my hobby use, I do the above.

Rick P

[Martin Wasner]

How quick are the 21s to adjust to center on different thickness of stock? Like going from 3/4 to 1&3/16 face frames?

There's no adjustment for moving the centerline of the drill up. Shouldn't be necessary if the stock is square. You can adjust the depth of the drill, the depth of the pocket, and how much material is left between the edge of the pocket and the edge of the material. Ours are all set at 13/16" pocket to edge to give a 1½" screw 11/16" of penetration. We use that number so the screw won't blow through 3/4" material if you're paying attention.

[David Kumm]

What is the difference between the older TSM 20 and newer 21? Are they the ones with the PC laminate router? Dave

[Martin Wasner]

What is the difference between the older TSM 20 and newer 21? Are they the ones with the PC laminate router? Dave

I'm not certain, but I think the 20 had the older PC laminate trimmer. The good one. I think the main router has always been the same PC router until they switched to Bosch.

I want to say I've seen that info on their website.

[David Kumm]

I'm guessing PC 7301. Dave

[peter gagliardi]

The TSM 21 from the shops I have talked to have said the TSM 21 is the gold standard for pocket machines.
I own an old Kreg 200 - the all metal version, that I bought probably 20-25 years ago, before they went plastic. It has been, and continues to be a good, but slow setup.
However, I would not entrust Kreg with another dime of my money. As soon as they went plastic, they immediately stopped supporting my version. The foot pedal died after about 8-10 years, they had no parts, and wouldn't even recommend or sell a retrofit foot pedal from the newer lineup.
The biggest part of the reason I buy domestic tools is parts support.
They wanted to sell me a new plastic POC.
Someday, I hope to find a used TSM 21, but those things never go cheap!

[richard poitras]

Back to the original question does anyone have one or have used the Castle 100?

[Martin Wasner]

Someday, I hope to find a used TSM 21, but those things never go cheap!

There's routinely a couple on Craigslist here. Usually around $1500 or less

New they're only $3500 I think.

[peter gagliardi]

I know, I see them occasionally around that much as well, but that obviously isn't my idea of cheap- yet.


I watched the video, that might be a useful tool for occasional use in a non-professional setting, but in a full time shop, it wouldn't be worth the hassle.
I don't know what they are charging, but it can't be very hard to duplicate.

[Martin Wasner]

I know, I see them occasionally around that much as well, but that obviously isn't my idea of cheap- yet.

Been there. We use it for all sorts of stuff outside of face frames. Screwing returns onto frames, attaching toe boards so the fasteners are hidden, we pocket screw our paneled ends together so the clamps just have to go on to tighten the joints then the screws take over, wrapping engineered material with solid for some tops, all of our loose stiles get attached to the carcass that way so the installers don't have to fight nails. I honestly don't know how we do with out those machines. They get used a lot. I could probably come up with 20 other examples if I thought about it.

[Brian Gamberg]

Back to the original question does anyone have one or have used the Castle 100?

Yes, I have the Castle 100. I know that it has been replaced with the Castle 110 which includes a new style clamp and a gauge and uses a different router; at the same time once I knew what I was doing the Castle 100 works well, produces the often discussed and semi worthless 'beautiful' pocket, and the angle does cause LESS drift. I'm a hobby woodworker not a production guy so a few extra steps don't really bother me, BUT I have found that a couple of 23 gauge headless pins shot into the joint at the 'mating' stage really helps align the two pieces you are about to join, and with a clamp AND the Torx15 head pocket screws, the joints are all flawlessly aligned and seem pretty awesome. I have had some issues with 1/2" material (even true 1/2") 'feeling' strong enough, but by the time I fit the bottoms in place they seem plenty sturdy. I have not been gluing those 1/2" drawers because I'm using prefinished drawer stock and the glue is semi useless, but IF I was using raw plywood, I'd probably thrown in some glue OR just use screws and butt joint the drawers and call it a day