Shopfox/W&H molder users - feedback requested

[Victor Robinson]

I'm going to be pulling the trigger on a W1812 molder shortly. I have a lot of trim in our own home as well as two other properties - casing, base, crown, wainscot, etc. The machine will probably pay for itself not necessarily in cost savings over purchasing trim but having the flexibility to make what I need and not having to make multiple runs to a molding supplier.

I'm fairly certain this is the right machine for me. Don't need a more production-oriented machine like a Woodmaster. I'm looking for tips and tricks from users of this or similar (e.g. WH) machines...mainly around infeed/outfeed support, tips for achieving consistency between runs, custom knives and steels (do I need M2?), etc.

Thanks!

[Mel Fulks]

Not familiar with that particular machine ,but if it is one that uses TWO knives ,instead of one, I'm sure it will do fine.
You definately need REAL M2 ,not something similar or 'kinda' like it'.

[Peter Christensen]

I have had a WH since about 1990. It is a simple and straight forward machine so there isn't a lot to say. You get snipe at both ends of a moulding. To minimize it feed the next piece right behind the one running. You should keep a sample of a moulding you may want to duplicate and write on it any height settings or dimensions, so that you can match them up if you want to run more for the house again. I have the variable speed and multi-pass stuff but it will be a while before I put them on. They should help with creeping up on a thickness and reduce tear out. I hope. ;) If you want to grind your own knives and have deeper pockets than I, Viel Tools (http://www.vieltools.com/index.php) in Quebec have a grinder for the job (product # AF-5. There is a block to mount the knives (product # PO-WH-1) specifically for the WH. The prices are Canadian and are about 20% less in US dollars.

[Victor Robinson]

Not familiar with that particular machine ,but if it is one that uses TWO knives ,instead of one, I'm sure it will do fine.
You definately need REAL M2 ,not something similar or 'kinda' like it'.

Thanks Mel. I think I've seen you say that elsewhere...or maybe I dreamt it. Do you think it makes a difference immediately in terms of quality of cut (easier to get sharper?), or is it just longevity between sharpenings?

[Victor Robinson]

I have had a WH since about 1990. It is a simple and straight forward machine so there isn't a lot to say. You get snipe at both ends of a moulding. To minimize it feed the next piece right behind the one running. You should keep a sample of a moulding you may want to duplicate and write on it any height settings or dimensions, so that you can match them up if you want to run more for the house again. I have the variable speed and multi-pass stuff but it will be a while before I put them on. They should help with creeping up on a thickness and reduce tear out. I hope. ;) If you want to grind your own knives and have deeper pockets than I, Viel Tools (http://www.vieltools.com/index.php) in Quebec have a grinder for the job (product # AF-5. There is a block to mount the knives (product # PO-WH-1) specifically for the WH. The prices are Canadian and are about 20% less in US dollars.

Good stuff, thanks! Doubt I'd ever get to grinding my own knives, but I'd have expected that capability to cost more.

[Mel Fulks]

It makes a difference that can be seen after just a few feet. You will see striations almost immediately and tear out will be much worse with low grade steel. That stuff serves no purpose beyond a bigger profit for suplier obtained by invalid comparison to good M2.

[Jared Sankovich]

Grizzly knives are the cheapest, Williams and hussey knives are the cheapest Stock profiles in M2.

I have 2 W&H machines I just recently picked up. I bought the 2nd just for the 32 sets of knives it came with.

[Bradley Gray]

<p>
I have an older W&amp;H. I have these clamp on guides.</p>

[Mike Hollingsworth]

I got one of the 1812s after the redesign.
Works great!

I like it better than the W&H.
(firesuit on)

[Jared Sankovich]

I got one of the 1812s after the redesign.
Works great!

I like it better than the W&H.
(firesuit on)


Its hard to argue with the price and the fact the shop fox comes with variable speed. However the fact that you can call up w&h and have replacement parts (for every model back to the 50's) shipped out the same day is something you can't do with shop fox/grizzly (for example try getting parts for the discontinued 1693/1739 shop fox exact clone of the w&h)

My first w&h had a up close meeting with a 4 lane highway. I had all the replacement parts 4 days later.

[Peter Christensen]

What always puzzled me about the clones was why they didn't improve them instead of making them virtually the same. I could understand if they had made them wider, longer base table with built in guides, corrugated knives, etc., but the only difference was selling them cheaper than the W&H.

[Victor Robinson]

<p>

I have an older W&amp;H. I have these clamp on guides. Hmm, the website for clampthis doesn&#39;t seem to exist anymore...</p>

[Jared Sankovich]

Some good general usage /setup information
https://www.instagram.com/p/BWSaWi9BVK2/

[Victor Robinson]

Some good general usage /setup information
https://www.instagram.com/p/BWSaWi9BVK2/

That was a cool video, thanks! Looking forward to ordering some knives and getting to work with mine. The hard part is of course deciding on the profiles and trying to be smart about multi-use patterns.

Wish I could find a collection of old knives for cheap, lol.

[Jared Sankovich]

Wish I could find a collection of old knives for cheap, lol.

That's how I ended up with two moulders.
372327

[Mark Bolton]

I will give you our input based on perhaps 10 years with an original W&H, no VS.

#1 you will not save a penney on stock produced moldings. Your time manufacturing and and producing suitable blanks for the molder will cost you far and away more than any crown molding you can buy off the shelf and you will not have even run it through the molder. Where they shine is with short, small, expensive, runs of custom profiles that are simply too small to require re-tooling a large molder, yet are in demand enough to afford the cost of a short run. If you are in any way contemplating running a profile on a W&H that you can buy from a local lumberyard or home center, in a species they offer, your are going to lose your shirt on price.

#2 be prepared to handle VOLUMES of chips. I am not talking about a DC that feeds into a 55 gallon drum or trash can. If you are talking about producing several thousand feet of molding (and average home with base, case, shoe, crown, and so on is going to be in the several thousand feet range) you are going to be talking about trailer loads of chips between planing and sizing blanks, ripping to width, face molding and back relief. You will be drowning in chips.

#3 be prepared for a LOT of waste. As stated your going to deal with a lot of snipe. Even with endless board feeding your going to have pieces that are going to lift on infeed and outfeed which is going to roast 5-6" of the ends of every board. Leo has the best solution ever to clamp a block of solid material under the unsupported end. It will reduce chatter dramatically. Then you will have endless amounts of tearout through a run. And mind you tool steel is literally going to run 2K ft and you will need to resharpen.

#4 be prepared to run every piece (other than back relief) twice. One hogging pass, and another skim pas at 1/32" or so to give you the cleanest end result.

#5 be prepared to have to sand every single piece that comes off the molder unless you have th VS and run at painfully slow feed rates. We have never gotten material off the molder that didnt need sanding. Invest in a sanding mop and install it right behind your molder and run every piece through the mop.

#6 Again, be prepared to spend more time than you can ever imagine preparing the blanks before you ever run the first piece of molding.

#7 Again, If your molding profile is available ANYWHERE commercially, DONT run your own. You will never, ever, ever, be cheaper than a huge molder no matter how many feet you save milling "what you need". Molding is cheap. 50' of waste at 1.50 a foot is peanuts compared to what it takes to plane, straightline, rip to width, mold, and back relieve, that 50 ' of molding. Odd profile, sure, odd species, sure,.. but if your profile and species are available off the shelf youll never come close. If you find it fun, thats great, but it will not be a cost savings even though youll own the molder when your done (my guess is you'll likely want to strap a few sticks of dynamite around it when your done and have a fireworks show).

We run our W&H almost daily if not weekly. But we never ever run any profile that is available commercially. We just cant do it.

[Victor Robinson]

I will give you our input based on perhaps 10 years with an original W&H, no VS.

Thanks Mark, I appreciate the feedback. Definitely some things to consider. I will definitely invite you if I end up having that fireworks show. :D

[Mark Bolton]

Well call me before the fireworks. We may buy the molder off you. We do a lot of short runs and our W&H has been profitable. But when your talking about a house full of trim,.. unless its all completely unique profile, all completely unique species, and a high dollar job, it just doesnt add up.

If your talking about running any sort of standard profiles or species your out of the class of a woodmaster and into the class of a Logosol PH260 or 360 on the extreme low end, and you'd still better be able to handle massive loads of chips.