Replacement for old Craftsman Table Saw

[Mike Geig]

Howdy, I have an older Craftsman 113.29730 contractor-style table saw with extension that I inherited from my grandpa. I have it on a rolling wooden base and so far it has treated me very well. I am now looking for an adequate replacement as this saw has developed some wear over the years and lacks the modern safety features. Here is some pertinent information

-I am a hobbyist, but also a slight perfectionist and value accuracy of cuts very high
-I build furniture, jewelry boxes, cutting boards, etc
-My shop is a garage that I also park my cars in, so space and mobility are important (I have enough room to tuck everything against the walls when not in use)
-I have 110 run to my shop but could also run 220 for the write saw
-My budget is $500-$1,000

I was comparing the Dewalt DWE7491rs and the Bosch 4100-09 but am concerned that I am trading quality for "job site mobility" which I don't really need. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

[Andrew Hughes]

I had the Bosch 4100 with the gravity rise stand. And it was a great saw I could load it up in my truck by myself. It also held its accuracy to and from a job site.
Be aware that it's loud but those small saws are noisey

[Carroll Courtney]

Welcome Mike,your right where alot of use have been.I can't help you with your question cause I haven't been in the TS market in last 20yrs or so.I do have a stationary TS an older PM66 and a Unisaw with a Delta slider attachment so I don't know what the latest and greatest is now days.But if you should come across one of these older saws thats in good shape maybe consider it.With your projects I say that you will also need a good fence system and a good miter gage so maybe one of those Kregs or Inca would help take a common saw up to the next level.Good luck and keep us posted on what you select.-----Carroll

[Lee Schierer]

I have an older 113 model saw with the cast iron wings and it has transitioned to become highly accurate. The first step was a careful alignment' link belt and machined pullies, then replacing the fence with a Beismeyer fence. The most recent upgrade was a Kreg miter gauge. With quality blades and a zero clearance insert, cuts are clean. For ripping I use a Freud glue line ripping blade and for crosscuts I use a Freud LU82M. All the items you can see on my website were made using my craftsman saw.

You can add a splitter with an MJ Splitter
(https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003E623C0/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I2V4JH14757GZN&colid=1D4LOQ4GYUNA5) Which is the next step I have planned.

The 4100 and Dewalt DWE7491rs are direct drive saws where your 113 saw is belt drive so you can replace the motor without replacing the saw and accessories.

[Mike Geig]

Thanks. The 113 is definitely accurate and suits my needs very well. The problem is the lack of safety features. For the cost of adding a riving knife and blade guards, I'm starting to get into a couple hundred bucks anyway. Not to mention that any add on safety parts would be 3rd party and not exactly a perfect fit.

[Bill Space]

I have an old Craftsman table saw similar to yours. As mentioned by others above, when I replaced the standard fence with a Unifence, the saw was reborn. I don't think you need a new saw. Consider a new fence. Naturally, you will not gain a riving knife with the new fence.

Putting a good fence on the old saw made it a pleasure to use. My main saw is now more powerful and has a riving knife, but the old Craftsman still performs well and I would not trade it for a contractors type saw. Not even for a shiny one :)

Also building a cross cut sled made an amazing difference in the saw's performance as well.

Edit: I see you were typing at the same time I was. If safety features are the ultimate need, then I suppose you may need to change saws. A riving knife is likely not going to happen one the craftsman. A blade guard probably. your budget does not reach the cost of safety features beyond the blade guard and riving knife it seems. If you were local I could probably give you a blade guard for the craftsman...

Bill

[Mike Cutler]

Mike

Where are you at?
A Robland 220 on Craigslist just sold for $450.00.
There is a PowerMatic 72 for $1000. ( I've been watching this one, but I'd have to get rid of one of my current table saws just to make room.)
Too many Powermatic 66's, and Delta Unisaws, to count for $500-$750.
If you can put a little work into one, Craigslist can get you more bang for your buck.

[andy bessette]

For $500-$1000 you can buy an excellent Powermatic or Unisaw with fence.

[Mike Geig]

Where are you at?


I like in North East Ohio but unfortunately Craigslist seems to be a bit sparse on table saws. I do check their often though. Many of these saws are much bigger than the space I have available.

[scott spencer]

If you don't need to move the saw from location to location, there's really no reason to adopt the downsides of a portable saw. Lack of mass and small space in front of the blade are significant safety drawbacks IMO, but the difference in overall footprint isn't usually a show stopper considering the depth that's gained, along with a slew of other advantages. The "landing zone" in front of the blade is critical for stabilizing the work piece just prior to contact with the blade....that's not only a safety consideration, it's an accuracy consideration as well.

http://www.woodlogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Craftsman_Tablesaw_21833_Top_2.jpg http://milescityacehardware.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/dewalt-saw-operators-view-1.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/vs-lumberjocks.com/o238zi8.jpg


A decent hybrid saw will give you a full size cast iron table, belt drive induction motor, more mass, and modern safety features. With a mobile base, all can easily roll out of the way. Many will stretch your budget a bit, but you're talking about many years of use and enjoyment. Grizzly has the G0833 and the G0771Z within budget. One of the Jet Proshop models might just squeeze within budget on sale....very well proven saws.

http://cdn1.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg500/g/g0833p-d31033f5699b620403dbafcb0ddec2b8.jpg

[Lee Schierer]

Thanks. The 113 is definitely accurate and suits my needs very well. The problem is the lack of safety features. For the cost of adding a riving knife and blade guards, I'm starting to get into a couple hundred bucks anyway. Not to mention that any add on safety parts would be 3rd party and not exactly a perfect fit.

The link I gave you for the MJ Splitter (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003E623C0/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I2V4JH14757GZN&colid=1D4LOQ4GYUNA5) is an add on riving knife will fit any saw. It attaches to your throat plate and only costs $40.

[Robert Engel]

For what you're building, How about this? (http://www.sawstop.com/table-saws/by-model/jobsite-saw)

[Mike Geig]

Thanks Lee, I will check that out.

I had looked at that SawStop Robert. It seems decent but I'm concerned about the cost if I accidentally hit something conductive when cutting (assuming it's not my finger).

[Mike Geig]

I found a Rigid TS3660 on CL for $400. Seems in pretty good that. What's people's opinions of that saw? I could put it on a mobile base but I have never used a Rigid saw and have no opinion of the brand

Edit: a little research seems to indicate that this is priced high. Still curious for opinions on it.

[scott spencer]

I found a Rigid TS3660 on CL for $400. Seems in pretty good that. What's people's opinions of that saw? I could put it on a mobile base but I have never used a Rigid saw and have no opinion of the brand

Edit: a little research seems to indicate that this is priced high. Still curious for opinions on it.

Well proven saw. It's got a lot of lineage with the Emerson made 113, and the Ryobi made 315 contractor saws. Pretty much the same saw as the TS3650. Solid cast wings, serpentine belt, decent fence. It comes with a really neat "Herculift", so it shouldn't need a mobile base. The old school outboard motor location takes up an extra 12"-13" vs a hybrid or cabinet saw. $400 is a bit steep....I'd be more comfortable between $300-$350.

[andy bessette]

I found a Rigid TS3660 on CL for $400...

OK for rough work.

[Art Mann]

I have posted this man times but the irrefutable fact is that a very large number of Craigslist markets have essentially zero worthwhile table saws to sell. Where I live, I monitor Craigslist every day for various reasons and I typically see something like 2 or 3 used heavy US made cast iron table saws per year and they are usually over priced or so rusty they aren't worth taking home for free. A good deal doesn't even last a half day.

[John Gulick]

Sawstop. best value

[Art Mann]

It is beyond question that the Sawstop brand is the safest small table saw. It is highly questionable among many woodworkers with long term experience as to whether it represents the best value. Over the past 40 years, any extra money I might have spent on a Sawstop, were it available, would have been completely wasted.

[David J Blackburn]

Just to be clear, the MJ splitter is *NOT* a riving knife. It's a splitter. You can't use it on non-through cuts (unless it's a very deep non-through cuts) and you can't use it on non-90 degree cuts. A riving knife rises and lowers with the blade, so it's always below the top of the blade and can be used in all non-through cuts and rotates with the blade so you can use it on non-90 degree cuts. It also stays closer to the blade than a splitter does.

A riving knife is a much better safety feature than a splitter. I, of course, have an MJ splitter on my zero clearance insert plate for my older Grizzly 1023. So I am not saying that you shouldn't use one, just being clear that it's not as good as a riving knife.

[Nick Decker]

I have posted this man times but the irrefutable fact is that a very large number of Craigslist markets have essentially zero worthwhile table saws to sell. Where I live, I monitor Craigslist every day for various reasons and I typically see something like 2 or 3 used heavy US made cast iron table saws per year and they are usually over priced or so rusty they aren't worth taking home for free. A good deal doesn't even last a half day.

Agreed. I think the posters who are seeing all this "old arn" are in large metro or former industrial areas. Rare around here.

[Lee Schierer]

The purpose of a riving knife or splitter is to reduce the chance of a kick back. Before I did the alignment on my Craftsman, I would get an occasional kick back, since I did the alignment, I can't remember having a kick back. When rip now I have to look extremely closely to see which side of a piece was the cut side versus jointed side of a board. I can generally pause slightly while ripping maple or cherry without getting a burn mark on either side of the blade. The hardwoods I work with seem to be free of internal stresses so I don't see any pinching of the blade during rip cuts. When ripping narrow pieces I always use a push stick and my grip tite magnetic feather boards on the infeed and out feed side of the blade. The outfeed feather board mounts sideways on my steel faced fence. (Normally the fence mounted feather board is behind the blade. I was cutting a rabbet in the side of the piece in this photo)
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[andy bessette]

...the posters who are seeing all this "old arn" are in large metro or former industrial areas...

The farther one lives from large metro areas, the farther one might have to drive to pickup good old machines.

[Roger Marty]

Thanks Lee, I will check that out.

I had looked at that SawStop Robert. It seems decent but I'm concerned about the cost if I accidentally hit something conductive when cutting (assuming it's not my finger).

I'm amused at this post :-)

(I will personally no longer use a table saw that doesn't have flesh detection)

[andy bessette]

...(I will personally no longer use a table saw that doesn't have flesh detection)

Pretty skeery!

[Art Mann]

(I will personally no longer use a table saw that doesn't have flesh detection)

I am happy you realized the limitations of your skill set.

[Mike Cutler]

I have posted this man times but the irrefutable fact is that a very large number of Craigslist markets have essentially zero worthwhile table saws to sell. Where I live, I monitor Craigslist every day for various reasons and I typically see something like 2 or 3 used heavy US made cast iron table saws per year and they are usually over priced or so rusty they aren't worth taking home for free. A good deal doesn't even last a half day.

Art

I think this is somewhat cyclical, and as pointed out, somewhat regional.
Machines seems to go in cycles it seems, sometimes jointers, then planers, then table saws, and then band saws, and sometimes nothing.
Right now I'm seeing a lot of table saws on Craigslist. Not big iron like a Moak, Oliver or a Tannewitz, but plenty of circa 80's Unisaws. ( Although I've seen more than a few Northfields lately. Big $$$$.) There is also a ton of Craftsmans for sale. Now for some reason, Euro' style sliders are starting to appear in numbers also.
I think there are a lot of folks retiring here, "up north", and looking to shed some "load" to make the move south.

I'm looking for a bench top Milling machine myself. Something under a 1000lbs. None here up north, maybe you got 'em down south. ;)

[Bill George]

I'm amused at this post :-)

(I will personally no longer use a table saw that doesn't have flesh detection)

The only shop person I know of with a missing finger wasn't done on a table saw, but band saw.

[Bill George]

Kind of agree with Art on used CL saws. Once in a while here you will find a nice table saw for sale but a lot are just overpriced junk. 30 year old Craftsman and pretty much worn out or rusty and they are asking at least $200 which is more or less what it sold for new. Or they call it Vintage which is suppose to make it worth more!

[Mike Geig]

Jet models are on sale this weekend for black Friday. I was eyeballing the Jet 708494K. A little above my budget but seemed to have good reviews.

[Art Mann]

Some posters talk as if buying used equipment is the only way to go and anyone who doesn't do this is stupid. In many locations, that is bad advice.

Art

I think this is somewhat cyclical, and as pointed out, somewhat regional.
Machines seems to go in cycles it seems, sometimes jointers, then planers, then table saws, and then band saws, and sometimes nothing.
Right now I'm seeing a lot of table saws on Craigslist. Not big iron like a Moak, Oliver or a Tannewitz, but plenty of circa 80's Unisaws. ( Although I've seen more than a few Northfields lately. Big $$$$.) There is also a ton of Craftsmans for sale. Now for some reason, Euro' style sliders are starting to appear in numbers also.
I think there are a lot of folks retiring here, "up north", and looking to shed some "load" to make the move south.

I'm looking for a bench top Milling machine myself. Something under a 1000lbs. None here up north, maybe you got 'em down south. ;)