Good excuse to buy a Domino????? [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

John C Bush

11-12-2017, 9:12 PM

Making a desk for grad school daughter--she likes mid-century modern--I have only done M&T and dado joinery and this design has angled joints in major support areas that would be difficult to make "perfectly". The pic (FWW Design Book Three 1983, desk by JB Sagui) shows the angled legs and the cantilevered drawer boxes. Won't have drawers on top and size is different--pic is 72x18x30--hers will be 50x24x30--. Need suggestions on joinery style and if Domino would be better than conventional joinery? Which model is appropriate?-- I do slab tables etc. and the larger tenons could come in handy occasionally but would be for usual 3/4 stock. I have been exceptionally good this year so an early visit from Santa isn't out of the question. Thanks,

Dan Friedrichs

11-12-2017, 9:37 PM

I bought a Rotex after everyone said they were amazing. I think it's OK.
I bought a Festool Vac after everyone said they were amazing. It's ok.
I got a Domino a few weeks ago, and....well, you can pry it from my cold dead hands.

Summary of all the reading I did on the 500 vs 700 (XL): The big one can do everything the small one can do with some inexpensive adapters. Some people think it's more ergonomic; others find it to be harder to handle. Bigger dominos may be useful, but you can always double-up on the smaller ones, so it's not a "must have". Ultimately, I went with the smaller one because it was substantially cheaper.

One last hint: if you buy the systainer full of dominos (and the cutters), buy it from amazon.de. The price is ~half the US price, and you can still get 2-day shipping.

Cary Falk

11-12-2017, 10:00 PM

Prashun Patel

11-12-2017, 10:04 PM

That is a good summary, with one exception.

You can double up with the 500 but you cannot go as deep as the 700 can.

I am not quite sure how slab tables would benefit from large dominos.

You won't go wrong with either. It does make some angled joinery situations easy. Deep offsets require some thought though.

Randy Heinemann

11-13-2017, 2:10 AM

Always great to have a good reason to buy a new tool; especially when it's the Domino. The Domino is the most versatile, useful, easy to use tool I've bought for . . . well, maybe ever. It opens up many possibilities for creative joinery which would otherwise be much more difficult to accomplish.

Hard to tell what the angles are in the desk, but I doubt there is any reason the Domino couldn't do all the required joinery.

There is no reason to buy the 700XL unless you are going to do very large projects. While it is true the 700XL seems to be a slightly better designed machine, it is cumbersome for smaller projects. The 500 and 700XL are similar in design but made for joinery in projects of a much different scale. I have always disagreed that buying the 700 with the adapter set for smaller bits is a good idea, but I know many have done just that and seem satisfied. Just a matter of opinion and differences between people and what works for them. For small and medium sized projects (maybe even some much larger), the DF500 is all that is needed. A 10X50 Domino makes a very strong joint.

Almost any project that can be made using mortise and tenon joints ends up being much easier to do with the Domino.

While there are great and mediocre Festools, the Domino is one of those tools that changes the way you look at woodworking and opens up your mind to make and design items you might not otherwise consider.

Kevin Womer

11-13-2017, 4:48 AM

Go to a dealer. Put your hands on both the 500 and 700. See if they let you try it, they should. I went with the 500 and have no regrets. I also made a desk and night table for my daughter and the dominoes were fine for that application. Check out you tube videos such as Half inch shy, on the domino those are some of the best I have seen. Don’t pay for shipping, several distributors offer it free. You won’t find many on the used market unless you are lucky, but I preferred peace of mind and a warranty for the expense involved. They don’t go on sale very often, but it is one of the best tools I own.
Good Luck

Brian W Evans

11-13-2017, 5:23 AM

I doubt you will regret buying a Domino. Almost any joint where you would use M&T, dowels, biscuits, or pocket screws will be made faster and easier with a Domino, and usually stronger as well (M&T excepted, probably). I bought the 700XL with the adapters from Seneca (https://www.senecawoodworking.com/products/smal-mortise-set-for-festool-domino-xl-df700) that enable me to use the 500 series cutters and dominos. This has worked just fine for me, although I must point out that I have never used a 500. There have definitely been several instances where I needed the bigger dominos and was glad to have the 700, but YMMV.

I will second Kevin's suggestion that you watch some Half Inch Shy videos where he reviews both Dominos in great detail as well as some adapters for the 700.

Michelle Rich

11-13-2017, 6:44 AM

One needs no excuse to buy a Domino. It is revolutionary and work saver. I liked the 500 as it is lighter and smaller to work with. I have found the 500 to do everything I need.

Mike Cutler

11-13-2017, 8:22 AM

John

That's a very interesting design. Those legs have an interesting taper to them as well as being angled.
Domino, or not, I'd like to see it when you're done.
The Domino may need to have a jig made to control it for some of those joints, which I think may be easier on a table saw for me, but that doesn't mean they'd be easier for you.
I don't own a Domino myself, but I can easily see their appeal. I don't think I've read a post where a person regretted buying one. I say get one and see where it fits into your wood working.

Jim Becker

11-13-2017, 8:25 AM

I hear you...I'm hoping to do the same within a few months, myself, as I can see the value for work I do and work I have coming up. At the present time, I believe it will be the 700XL which I will later get the Seneca adapters if I feel the need for working below the 8mm Domino size.

John C Bush

11-13-2017, 1:37 PM

Peter Christensen

11-13-2017, 4:31 PM

As much as I wish I had a Domino, I don't but I do have a Lamello biscuit tool. I would have no hesitation using biscuits to hold a desk like that together, never fearing a joint fail. The small loose tenons will do the same for you.

When the Domino first came out in Australia a guy on another forum made a Zig Zag chair (https://www.google.ca/search?client=safari&rls=en&dcr=0&biw=1434&bih=1116&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=uA4KWrLOEYSWjwPqiLeABQ&q=solid+wood+Zig+Zag+chair&oq=solid+wood+Zig+Zag+chair&gs_l=psy-ab.12...25675.25675.0.28306.1.1.0.0.0.0.457.457.4-1.1.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.6SMuYYh_lFo) with the machine and it worked well. So if a chair will hold up so with a desk.

John Sanford

11-13-2017, 7:43 PM

Go to a dealer. Put your hands on both the 500 and 700. See if they let you try it, they should. I went with the 500 and have no regrets.....Don’t pay for shipping, several distributors offer it free. You won’t find many on the used market unless you are lucky, but I preferred peace of mind and a warranty for the expense involved. They don’t go on sale very often, but it is one of the best tools I own.
Good Luck

If you do go to a dealer and put your hands on it, then buy it from that dealer, unless their service is lousy. The price of the tool itself will be the same no matter what dealer you buy it from.

Randy Heinemann

11-14-2017, 11:35 AM

Thanks for all the help!!
Joining the verticals to the bottom of the desk top frame is my main concern. The tapered "leg" carries the load but the side panels would be in tension pulling down on the joint. Front to back dim. is 21" with 3/4"(width of vertical and thickness of the frame--domino penetration) stock so ?? is there enough glued surface area with dominoes to hold drawers loaded with books, paper, etc. The drawer box bottom will be solid stock and the two other dividers will be frame style slides. No mechanical slides. The trapezoid should be plenty stout but if the desk is lifted on one end and moved--dragged--perpendicular to the "leg" would this design resist?? I'm using cherry so it will be heavy.

Cary and Mike--The drawer dividers/quides would need to be stop dadoed so the angled joints spiked my interest in a more simple--predictable--method than tilting a dado stack on the TS.

Prashun--I made a waterfall slab console table(1 waterfall joint) and 9' x 5' L shaped desk(2 waterfalls and a 45 36" long) and ended up using steel angle iron and plate to secure joints. Worked great--lots of work and challenging to index.

Anyone have experience getting a Systainer down a chimney??

Thanks again,
John--Bioscience trained--engineer wannabe

The Domino joints are solid with regular wood glue. I have made drawers for shop furniture, including my bench and other cabinets. If they can hold heavy tools, etc. they can hold office supplies with no problem. As far as dragging a desk across the floor, the Domino joint is a strong joint; maybe close to equal to a well-made standard mortise and tenon. It's just easier and more consistent to use the Domino. The fit of the Domino in the slot is very tight and the ridges on the loose tenon allow the glue to be retained. When the loose Domino is slipped into the slot the glue gets spread, I think, more evenly and consistently than when you spread it yourself. Anyway, I've never had a Domino joint let loose. The wood itself would break first before the glue joint.

Rick Alexander

11-15-2017, 8:42 AM

Thanks for all the help!!

Anyone have experience getting a Systainer down a chimney??

Thanks again,
John--Bioscience trained--engineer wannabe

I know I had to give ole Santa a break on my DF 700 and buy it myself - I ain't been that good and the less the wife knows about how much that puppy costs the better. I've never felt so guilty when I walked out of the store with a tool in my life but no regrets as it will pay for itself many times over in time and aggravation saved.

Sean Nagle

11-15-2017, 10:39 AM

One last hint: if you buy the systainer full of dominos (and the cutters), buy it from amazon.de. The price is ~half the US price, and you can still get 2-day shipping. Dan, thanks for the tip about buying the dominos and cutter from Amazon.de. I ordered the 8mm/10mm kit for my XL. It seemed that the credit card needed to be a business (commercial) credit card and I was not able to get 2-day shipping. Shipping is about 4 weeks and there was an additional charge. However, even with the shipping charge and VAT it was just a little over half the cost of buying from my regular sources.

Dan Friedrichs

11-15-2017, 10:46 AM

Dan, thanks for the tip about buying the dominos and cutter from Amazon.de. I ordered the 8mm/10mm kit for my XL. It seemed that the credit card needed to be a business (commercial) credit card and I was not able to get 2-day shipping. Shipping is about 4 weeks and there was an additional charge. However, even with the shipping charge and VAT it was just a little over half the cost of buying from my regular sources.

Nice - I originally heard the tip from Van Huskey (on this forum), so can't take credit for the "discovery".

Odd that your regular credit card wouldn't work.

I think if you filter by items that are "Prime", you can get the 2-day shipping. When I bought a kit, it said it was going to take weeks to arrive, but then they DHL overnight'ed it, and it came before the Domino (which was shipped 2-day from Ohio...).

I also found that while Amazon offers currency conversion (EUR to USD), their rates weren't as good as those I get through my no-foreign-transaction-fees credit card. So I bought it in EUR.

Also, you shouldn't have to pay VAT - it should automatically remove it once it sees a US shipping address? If you bought from a 3rd party seller, maybe they didn't know (or have that automated).

Sean Nagle

11-15-2017, 10:56 AM

Odd that your regular credit card wouldn't work.

I think if you filter by items that are "Prime", you can get the 2-day shipping. When I bought a kit, it said it was going to take weeks to arrive, but then they DHL overnight'ed it, and it came before the Domino (which was shipped 2-day from Ohio...).

I also found that while Amazon offers currency conversion (EUR to USD), their rates weren't as good as those I get through my no-foreign-transaction-fees credit card. So I bought it in EUR.

Also, you shouldn't have to pay VAT - it should automatically remove it once it sees a US shipping address? If you bought from a 3rd party seller, maybe they didn't know (or have that automated).

I did purchase it from Amazon.

My personal credit cards didn't appear, but my two business credit cards did. I tried adding a personal card, but it didn't add it.

I didn't see a Prime option on shipping.

There was no VAT called out, it just had a comment that it was included.

Matt Lau

11-15-2017, 6:40 PM

Personally, I think that you could *easily* justify a domino.
Also, I think that the Domino would be perfect for most Midcentry danish style furniture...since most of those are veneered slabs stuck together with dowels/pocket screws.

There are many other designs that you may want to consider though.
It'd be interesting to see what your daughter likes!

Sean Nagle

11-21-2017, 10:48 AM

To follow up, I already received my 8mm/10mm Domino kit for my XL from Amazon.de. It was shipped via DHL as Dan mentioned, though not overnight.

Great tip! However, now I get Amazon.de email flyers... in Deutsch of course ;-)

Simon MacGowen

11-21-2017, 11:23 AM

I'm not seeing how a Domino would make the legs any easier. There is no way with the Domino to get at some of the angles unless you make some kind of jig. It would be easier for me on a table saw with the blade tilted. Pocket screws would be pretty easy also.:eek: But to answer your real question, Yes you should get a Domino if you want one.

Not meaning or trying to call you out, but which angles the domino with its angle fence cant handle with regard to the table the OP plans to build? The domino joiner is designed to handle those angles well which are not complex angles at all.

Depending on the stock thickness, such joints can be cut perpendicularly or at an angle without using any jig. The domino joiner doesnt work like a plunge router, a misconception I have heard from many of my pals.

Simon

Cary Falk

11-21-2017, 12:11 PM

Not meaning or trying to call you out, but which angles the domino with its angle fence cant handle with regard to the table the OP plans to build? The domino joiner is designed to handle those angles well which are not complex angles at all.

Depending on the stock thickness, such joints can be cut perpendicularly or at an angle without using any jig. The domino joiner doesnt work like a plunge router, a misconception I have heard from many of my pals.

Simon

I am just having a hard time picturing ho to do the angled joints were the chair sits. So lets put that board flat on the bench. The board that is below the drawer sticks up at an angle of say 60 degrees to the right and then 120 degrees from the other side. You can't attack it from the right because the fence can't go above 90 degrees. If you attack it from the left with the fence set at 30 then only the fence(not the base part that normally contacts the wood would move once the bit made contact. If you made a 90 degree entry on each face I would be difficult to clamp. The fence also doesn't do more than 90 degrees like a PC biscuit joiner so you would need some kind of jig. I sold my Domino so what do I know.

Simon MacGowen

11-21-2017, 12:36 PM

I am just having a hard time picturing ho to do the angled joints were the chair sits. So lets put that board flat on the bench. The board that is below the drawer sticks up at an angle of say 60 degrees to the right and then 120 degrees from the other side. You can't attack it from the right because the fence can't go above 90 degrees. If you attack it from the left with the fence set at 30 then only the fence(not the base part that normally contacts the wood would move once the bit made contact. If you made a 90 degree entry on each face I would be difficult to clamp. The fence also doesn't do more than 90 degrees like a PC biscuit joiner so you would need some kind of jig. I sold my Domino so what do I know.

There are basically three angled joints in that table (excluding the right angle ones), please see the picture. The mortises can be cut as shown depending on how a user is familiar with the tool. The angled ones are harder because of the clamping needs you pointed out, but doable if you hold down the tool firmly or against a batten clamped on the surface. Sometimes, you need to add the registration surface with a block if the mortises are close the edge. Experimenting and experience will make a difference there.

I have done more demanding angled joints than those shown in the picture (two sharp angled joints for instance) and no jigs were needed. One reminder: the exact angle of entry is not critical as long as the mortises are cut the same angle. I know someone on another forum who is really good at using the domino for his furniture business; he previously used the plunge router and lots of loose tenon jigs, none now.

Simon

Edwin Santos

11-21-2017, 1:02 PM

Hi,
I wonder if a good strategy might be to bolt the Domino machine to a table and bring the angled workpieces to it on a ramp cut to the appropriate angle?
Alternatively, could you hot glue wedges to the face of the machine and plunge vertically (at an angle) into the flat surface, braced against a temporary batten? Or hot glue wedges to the fence allowing it to do what your PC biscuit joiner does in registering to the end of an angled workpiece past 90 degrees?

I'd say the Domino can easily be used for this project, and it would be fun, and maybe not that difficult to figure out the jigs and solutions to make it happen. A teacher of a class I once took really opened our eyes to what many tools can do when the possibilities expanded by using jigs and aids.

Simon MacGowen

11-21-2017, 1:14 PM

Hi,
I wonder if a good strategy might be to bolt the Domino machine to a table and bring the angled workpieces to it on a ramp cut to the appropriate angle?

Someone has done that too. His machine set-up used with the compressor for workholding is pretty neat.

Simon

Jim Morgan

11-21-2017, 7:48 PM

Someone has done that too. His machine set-up used with the compressor for workholding is pretty neat.

Simon

Someone? Link?

Simon MacGowen

11-21-2017, 11:14 PM

Someone? Link?

Try the search or post your inquiry in the Festool Forum. The guy posted pictures and videos of his set-up there.

Simon

Mike Cleary

11-22-2017, 6:51 AM

John, NO brainer. Buy the large Domino. I have a small and a large. I also have a stationary mortiser at work and at home. The Domino is a game changer and you will NEVER regret it, only that you waited. Life is short, live wood large, Mike, Klawock, Alaska

John C Bush

11-22-2017, 9:16 PM

Just ordered the 500 with the tenon assortment systainer. Visited Highland Hardware in Atlanta when visiting a couple of years ago and met Chris Bagby, the owner, and his daughter Molly at the Lie Nielsen festival in Maine last July. Nice folks and had a nice visit with them. Pricing is universal so I thought it would be nice to support an independent retailer, even if all the way across the country. A wedge of pecan and pumpkin pie tomorrow will help with my buyers remorse.

Roger Marty

11-22-2017, 9:37 PM

How do deal with wood movement? Or is this a plywood design?

John C Bush

11-22-2017, 11:12 PM

Solid cherry. Stock is from 50+year old slabs kept in hay loft in Ill. and have been in my wood rack in Seattle for the last 17 yrs. "Seasoned" with bat, pigeon, and raccoon guano and were twisted, cupped, split etc. ~2" thick, some were 16" wide X 8ft. long, most were 9" wide. Best guess is my fathers' sawyer buddy gave them to him because the were not good enough to mill and market to payin' customers!! Lots of machining but should have enough. Incredible deep color. I can attach top with slots for expansion and hopefully the Dominoed joints will have matching expansion as they will be solid glue joint. Thinking a tenon every 6 inches along 21" panels front to back. Is that too generous a number?? More the merrier? 'Tis the season.

Corey Pelton

02-22-2018, 5:47 PM

Hey John,

How did the 500 work out for you? I just ordered one myself, after mulling over it and the 700. The 500 makes more sense, but I tend to lean toward the "what if" sides of things, hah. Hopefully, it does all I need and more.

Keith Weber

02-23-2018, 10:33 AM

This terrible thread is about to cost me a lot of money! I've always known I was going to buy a Domino, but I was really hung up on whether to get the 500 or the 700XL. I went back and read a bunch of stuff and watched some videos that I recognized that I'd watched before. Eventually I just came to the conclusion that neither one was ideal for everything and I was probably going to want both of them eventually. Since I don't have any large-tenon projects on the immediate horizon, I figured I'd order the 500 and use that one for a while first.

I used the awesome Amazon.de trick mentioned in this thread, to order the Domino Tenon Kit first and it worked quite well. The US Amazon one was $315 free shipping. The German price was inclusive of the VAT, but that was taken off at the end because it was shipping to the US. They did add an 18 Euro shipping fee (I don't have an Amazon Prime account, so I don't know if that was the reason why. I just picked Standard Shipping). The shipping worked out less than the VAT anyway, so it came out to $197 on my credit card. $118 cheaper than Amazon US. It said 3 weeks for delivery. I'll have to see. I won't be home for 2 weeks anyway, so it doesn't really matter to me either way. I had no issues using my personal credit card as Sean did.

I looked at the 500 as well on the German Amazon, but there wasn't any savings like on the Tenon Kits, so I'll order that in the US.

Of course, nothing goes easily without requiring extra costs. I'll need a vacuum to use the domino. I've got a fairly powerful Craftsman Shop Vac with a Dust Cyclone mounted on top. It does a good job, but it's big and cumbersome to move around my shop with ease. So, I figured I might just buy a Festool Vac to use with the Domino and possibly with my Makita SCMS when I take it out of the shop. Holy Sticker Shock!!!! $700 for a CT-26. Maybe I'll just buy a Festool 27mm hose and attach it to my Shop Vac. Even that was $120. I had a vision of that not working very well, and then I'd have to end up buying a Festool Vac anyway, which would come with the hose that I just spend $120 on, so I'm not sure where to go.

I was hung up on the Midi vs the CT-26 until I got out my tape measure and figured out that at 25" deep, it was going to be too big for what I want. I'm now considering the Mini. Smaller bag, but I wouldn't have to strain my back moving my Shop Vac anymore because it's a lot more portable. It would also be nice to have the auto-ON outlet on the vac to run the Domino. If I order the 500 in the next 5 days or so, I could get the Domino before the price goes up $50, and I'd get 10% off the price of the Mini, so it would be about $500.

So, I guess my question is... Is the Mini with a 27mm hose a good match-up for a 500 Domino? I read somewhere that guys were saying that you needed the 36mm hose for a Domino, but is the 27mm hose good enough? Is Domino sawdust like router sawdust, or is it volume-consuming like planer shavings? That would be a big factor on how quick it fills up the small bag.

This will be my first drink of the green Kool-Aid.

Peter Kelly

02-23-2018, 10:40 AM

Better place your orders, Festool prices are going up (again) in less than a week: https://www.toolnut.com/festool-price-increase-2018.html

Randy Heinemann

02-23-2018, 10:42 AM

I use the 27mm hose with the Domino and have not had any problems; essentially dust free. Plus, using a larger hose with the Domino would be cumbersome. The 36mm hose is less flexible and heavier and just makes it more difficult to use the 500. Actually, I'm not even sure that you can use a 36mm hose with the Domino without adapting the hose to fit the dust port (maybe I'm wrong about that because I never tried).

Simon MacGowen

02-23-2018, 10:47 AM

So, I guess my question is... Is the Mini with a 27mm hose a good match-up for a 500 Domino? I read somewhere that guys were saying that you needed the 36mm hose for a Domino, but is the 27mm hose good enough? Is Domino sawdust like router sawdust, or is it volume-consuming like planer shavings? That would be a big factor on how quick it fills up the small bag.

This will be my first drink of the green Kool-Aid.

The Domino operation produces a very acceptable amount of dust, unlike any typical router operation. So you don't need a lot of suction, but the use of a dust deputy is an excellent idea because those Festolol vac bags are expensive (if you decide to get a Mini or CT). I use a shop vac and Dust Deputy for ALL my Festool tools.

Anything you mentioned will work for the DF500 and if you already have a shop vac, hold on your purchase of any vac or dust extractor until you finish your first Domino project. But if you have money and want a clean-cut solution, it is hard to beat a CT26...but you know they are releasing the new generation of hoses and Blue-tooth capable extractors in April in Europe, right? (You may be seeing a flood of older CTs in the second hand market afterwards.)

Simon

James Zhu

02-23-2018, 12:09 PM

27 mm hose should be fine for DF500. I have CT26 with dust deputy and 27 mm hose for DF 700.

Mini is too small. I have MIDI for portable use, yes, need to buy expensive filter bag.

If you do not plan to buy Festool dust extractor, you can use non-Festool hose like this one https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-VAC005-5-Meter-Vacuum-Hose/dp/B0000AV78B/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1519405130&sr=1-1&keywords=27mm+hose.

But I think Festool dust extractor is a good investment. You might just wait for the new generation Festool dust extractor http://toolguyd.com/festool-dust-extractor-remote-control-bluetooth-hoses-extractors-2018/

James

Brian Holcombe

02-23-2018, 12:21 PM

I debated the domino to rough out mortises but ultimately decided on a slot mortiser. You can’t work to layout knife lines because the domino is designed to work off a centerline.
The slot mortiser is great, paid little more for the machine than the big domino, less shipping and setup.

Andrew Joiner

02-23-2018, 12:27 PM

Dan Friedrichs

02-23-2018, 12:51 PM

Keith,

Whenever I've bought from Amazon.de, it always charges me for shipping (even though I have prime), and while it's said 2-3 weeks, they end up shipping via DHL overnight, so it arrives in 1-2 days :) When I bought my 500 (from the US) and the domino kit (from Amazon.de), the kit showed up 2 days before the tool did.

Take a look at this thread from the Workshops forum, if you haven't already seen it:
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?261442-Reasons-for-Festool-vs-Fein-Dust-Extractor

In particular, the last page has a link to a blog that compared several dust extractors. I think there is some good data, there, that may dissuade you from the Festool version.

The dust port on the Domino is sized for the 27mm hose, and I suspect any shop vac or dust extractor would have no problem being "sufficient" for use with it.

I'd suggest playing with the 500 for a bit before deciding on a dust extractor and before deciding you need the XL

Brian Holcombe

02-23-2018, 1:07 PM

Brian, what slot mortiser did you get?

I should mention I bought mine used at auction, so the pricing is not reflective of current retail pricing (which is 4x what I paid). It's a Felder FD250, I've been using it with a bit from Rangate and it is sweet as can be. I cut 1.75" x 1" mortises, 6mm width rapidly. I don't rush through work, but I found even at a moderate pace I was able to cut a mortise per minute.

I square them up afterward by hand, but likely most here are not concerned with rounded corners. I prefer square corners because it suits how I cut tenons.

I layout my mortises with a mortising gauge, and knife the shoulders. I set the bit by eye between the lines (which are sized to the bit) and set the stops just shy of the end of the mortise. It's quick, intuitive and works around a basic process without additional consideration (such as working off a centerline) which adds a potential for error.

Corey Pelton

02-23-2018, 1:10 PM

I did the Amazon.de trick as well :) Why not save a $100? We'll see if it arrives tomorrow via DHL. I'm still iffy that choosing the 500 over the 700 was the correct choice, but I'm sure it'll work for 98% of my builds. If I need the 700 later on down the road, so be it. I have the CT Mini with the Dust Deputy already, so dust extraction is covered. I'm sure other vacs would work just fine. Really looking forward to testing out the tool.

Mike Goetzke

02-23-2018, 2:23 PM

Several years ago I bought the 500 when ebay had discounts combined with "Bing" cash back (that didn't last long). I used it a couple of times but really didn't use it a lot maybe because the early productions ones had a "walking" fence in that it did not lock down well. So I sold it. Then a couple years ago I made a crib for my granddaughter. The design had many slats and other joints that were ideal for the Domino. I found a slightly used 700xl for a good price that had some of the Seneca goodies including the 500 bit adapter. The 700 is bigger and heavier but I like it much better than the 500. For the crib project I built an adjustable fixture to center the mortises on the 1/2"x1-1/4"? slats. I also made a jig to align the slots in the mating rails. Took only minutes to create the 100+ mortises.

Mike Hollingsworth

02-23-2018, 4:32 PM

I sold mine after it gathered dust. But then again I own a Multi-Router.

Corey Pelton

03-07-2018, 8:12 PM

I've had the 500 for about a week now. Used it on a couple small projects, mostly just to test it out. It works as well as I'd hope it would. Only problem, I do believe it's a bit on the small side for larger projects. I have about a week left to decide to return and go with the 700. My thinking is, I'll get the Seneca adapter and get the best of both worlds. It's driving me nuts trying to decide which way to go, hah.

Jim Becker

03-07-2018, 8:18 PM

Corey, I did opt for the 700 because I felt that it would provide "me" with the best utility overall, but from the get-go, I wanted to get the Seneca setup for those times when smaller was the right choice. I scored the Seneca kit on Saturday at a Woodworking Shows event in NJ with a show discount and ordered the Festool DF500 assortment with cutters from Amazon.de on Sunday. (the cost of the Seneca kit and the Festool assortment with cutters from Germany cost about the same as buying just the domino assortment with cutters in the US)

Corey Pelton

03-09-2018, 2:31 AM

Thanks, Jim. I've RMA'd the 500, and about to order the 700 with the Seneca kit. I'll snag another domino assortment for the 700 off amazon.de It worked well last time, and does save quite a bit of coin.

Jim Becker

03-09-2018, 8:27 AM

Peter Kelly

03-09-2018, 9:53 AM

https://www.taytools.com/loose-tenons/

Quite a bit cheaper than the Festool ones and the quality is good. Just wish they had a few more sizes.

Mike Goetzke

03-09-2018, 10:12 AM

Holbren sells CMT bits for these tools. I’ve had excellent luck with them.

Jacob Mac

03-09-2018, 10:42 AM

Yea, I was really surprised at the cost difference for the DF500 assortment...I knew there would be a difference, but didn't expect that much difference! It literally payed for almost all of the Seneca kit, even after shipping cost.

I want to say I saved almost 140 ordering from amazon.de rather than Amazon.com. I will go broke if I keep saving so much money.

Going forward, I will probably just get dominos on an as needed basis from taytools or another site that has the sizes I need in bulk.

Peter Kelly

03-09-2018, 10:46 AM

Thx, I wasn't aware of the CMT bits, I just paid triple that for some Festool ones.

Face, meet palm.

Sean Nagle

03-09-2018, 11:23 AM

Jim Becker

03-09-2018, 1:09 PM

Jim, have you tried out the Seneca adapter for the 700? I would prefer the 6mm cutter for my XL which Seneca used to offer, but it doesn't seem to be available any longer. They continue to show it on their website. Does anyone know if they will be producing any more?
I literally just bought it last weekend at The Woodworking Shows event in Secaucus, NJ, so no, I haven't tried it out yet...I'm doing some shop renovation which included a Mini-Split install, insulation of the ceiling and an actual ceiling. And the smaller cutters still have to come from sunny Germany. :) I'm wondering if the 6mm 700XL cutter that Seneca milled down from an 8mm cutter was proving to be too fragile...they do warn about only using it when you actually need the depth and suggest the adapter with the 500 cutter for regular usage.