Which shaper would you buy..

[Mike Kees]

Three choices here. All used. 1. MiniMax T40N closest to new very good shape. 2.Delta RS-15, made by Invicta 7.5 h.p. decent used shape,cheap. 3. Ema not sure of the model ,has had bearings in spindle cartridge done,good shape. I am trying to decide on one of these,looking for a larger shaper for building doors and making mouldings as in casings and base boards etc. So those in the know with knowledge of any of these machines feel free to share the good ,bad and ugly. Mike. P.S. I have arrived at this decision because I followed Martin Wasners advise to look for a used industrial machine, after looking "under the hood' so to speak all I can say is thanks,Martin. Mike.

[Darcy Warner]

The rs-15. Never been disappointed with any invicta machine. EMA is not bad either.

[Larry Edgerton]

Had a T40, nice little shaper, but not in the same clss as the other two, just can't swing as big of a cutter.

[Martin Wasner]

I would go with the invicta. I have zero experience with ema.

I'm just trying to spread the gospel. I bought a lot of mediocre quality tools because I didn't know any better. Cheap tools cost too much.

[Mel Fulks]

I really like the RS-15. As with so many things the spindle change info is not good. Liability law favors the vague. Worked in a place that had someone put spindle in wrong and a machine shop guy had to be called to remove it. And ,of course ,when they loosen up while in use that's bad too. In a commercial shop you need to have a meeting about exactly how to change the spindles and make sure to keep a couple of extra 0 rings.

[Bill Dufour]

I would find out which, if any, have factory support so you can buy a different size arbor.
Bill D

[David Kumm]

Condition may be the biggest factor. EMA is Polish and the machines I've seen, including shapers, are pretty close to Martin in build. Spindle runout and fence quality are two things I look at. Dave

[Martin Wasner]

I really like the RS-15. As with so many things the spindle change info is not good. Liability law favors the vague. Worked in a place that had someone put spindle in wrong and a machine shop guy had to be called to remove it. And ,of course ,when they loosen up while in use that's bad too. In a commercial shop you need to have a meeting about exactly how to change the spindles and make sure to keep a couple of extra 0 rings.

Is it similar to the convoluted system that SAC uses where there's two threaded nuts with different pitches so it really slams the taper in hard? But if you do it wrong you might as well throw away the machine and the concrete it sits on?

[Mel Fulks]

The rs-15 has a threaded collar that goes on the spindle just tight enough to engage the o ring enough to let you screw in that assembly without letting either move independently. Tighten by hand first .Then the provided "wrench " is used. It's all got to be clean and have a little oil film. Read their instructions and judge the clarity.

[J.R. Rutter]

T40N is a nice little shaper. We used to have a pair of them for coping, each kept stacked with two different profiles. With a better fence installed, I would take it over the typical sheet metal based Powermatic/Delta/clones. It is not in the same class as the bigger industrial shapers though.

[Peter Kelly]

Condition may be the biggest factor. EMA is Polish and the machines I've seen, including shapers, are pretty close to Martin in build. Spindle runout and fence quality are two things I look at. DaveMade in Italy, not Poland. "ema" was based in Montréal and were the importer for Macchine Casadei prior to being acquired by SCM.

I don't think you could go wrong with any of the above-listed choices. The Casadei F114 was a great shaper though.

[Brian Lefort]

I'd go with the delta

[peter gagliardi]

I would physically look at them, as Dave says. The Ema, and the Delta.
Bring a dial indicator, check runout, and go over the internals carefully.
Evaluate the fences.
Do they both spin either direction.
Are Both capable of spinning whatever you expect to run?
Was the bearing replacement with OEM quality or better?
It is very probable that the Ema used better machining, and better bearings.
If everything above is equal, and there are no ergonomic operational issues, I would lean toward the Ema.
Parts are most likely a moot point, as I doubt the OEM for either still supports.

[David Kumm]

Sorry for the misinfo on the EMA. I thought it was similar to the Gomad, Polamco, Unitronix machines badged from Poland. The EMA in question may be as good but it isn't the machine i was referring to. They also could be had with a tenoning table. For a single shaper that can do it all, a sliding or tenoning table is pretty sweet. I have an older Felder F7 and a larger SCM T130 slider. I prefer the AL extruded slider on the Felder to the cast iron slider on the SCM but the fence on the SCM is way better. Some fences have digital counters. They are very helpful if you need to set up for cope and stick on the same machine. I think the Invicta could also be had with a sliding table. SAC also came with a tenoning table which is even better. Dave

[Joe Calhoon]

I bought a new EMA F114 in 1980 and ran it hard for 20 some years. They are not a bad machine and it was built a little heavier than a similar SCM I had at the time. The body was 6 or 8mm thick sheet steel. At the time I think it was $5500. A new Martin T21 at that time was 8 or 9K.

[Martin Wasner]

SAC also came with a tenoning table which is even better.

There's a sliding table tilting SAC on eBay right now for $8500. It's NOS, comes with all the tools and manuals. I've thought about snatching it up, I don't have a tilting spindle shaper and it'd be handy for a few things

[Darcy Warner]

There's a sliding table tilting SAC on eBay right now for $8500. It's NOS, comes with all the tools and manuals. I've thought about snatching it up, I don't have a tilting spindle shaper and it'd be handy for a few things

I just picked up a tilting spindle sliding table (tenoning set up) gomad. 3rd one I have owned, better built than any scmi I have owned.

[Mike Kees]

I have been gone for the weekend. Thanks for all the posts. I got a real good look at the Ema,it has 6'' of capacity under the nut. Fence is basic but solid,needs a few new handles. Table rings are missing on the top,there is a baltic birch replacement how big a deal is this ? anyone had new rings machined ? I will try to check out the other two machines before I make my decision, thanks Mike.

[Martin Wasner]

As I understand it, the rings are ground in place with the rest of the table, so they're kinda not easily replaceable. You could certainly have some made and lap them in by hand with a file on the underside. That wouldn't be the end of the world to do. One of my SAC shapers it's missing a ring, but for what it's set up for, I don't think there's any noticeable negative affects, but it would be a problem for most other operations.

[David Kumm]

I've had rings made. The key is to have machinist friend who will also come and measure everything himself. Those guys are so anal that they measure in ways I would not think of. They may still need some adjustment. You might want to be a little more patient and look for a machine that has been more loved. Dave

[Larry Copas]

I made new rings using my Bridgeport for my SCMI that work perfect. I would think for a real machinist it would be a snap.

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I've grown to like, or at least tolerate the differential threads and "O" ring on the spindle. I swap spindles on a regular basis and don't have any trouble at all. A proper wrench to fit the nut is a requirement.

[Warren Lake]

Darcy did you ever have a T160 SCM. saw one at an auction years back the useable spindle was double most shapers and it turned with zero resistance. Well maintained old beige machine way heavier than my T130.

[Mel Fulks]

Some of the table rings seem to be hand forged. Certainly no other reason for them to have hammer marks!

[peter gagliardi]

Some of the table rings seem to be hand forged. Certainly no other reason for them to have hammer marks!

Thanks for that, coffee everywhere!

On another note, I have heard that the rings are milled in place also, but when I think of how I would machine all the parts, I can't help but think the ring recess is milled incredibly close right from the start. Enough so, that you could make the rings, and you might need to just stone the ring/table edge interface.

That said, I would assess the Delta before I would commit to having to go the route of getting rings made- they need to be metal to expect any level of precision from the machine over time.

[David Kumm]

When I had rings made, it was much easier to have several made with the same OD and different ID rather than a set of rings that fit inside other rings. Easier for the machinist and cheaper for me. Dave

[Joe Calhoon]

Larry, did you make your rings from aluminum? If so do you have trouble with marking? My T23 has a complete set of rings but a big jump between 2 of them and I have had to make a MDF ring just to get through a job with certain cutters. Its on the to do list to get one made.

Dave, that makes sense. Making the rings fit each other would be a chore I think. Martin only sells replacement rings in full sets and pricy.

[Martin Wasner]

That's a solid plan Dave. You could probably just take the largest ring and have them fit to that.

Most of my shapers, (excluding the powermatics, where you could probably toss the rings from across the shop and get them to go on), I usually have to use a rubber mallet to tap on them while pulling to get them out. Especially when an employee decides to pay zero attention to there being index marks that are supposed to be lined up. They usually require a little tapping to get them in as well. I'm assuming that's a fairly normal experience?

[peter gagliardi]

On the Martins I have had, and the SAC, it was a tight slip fit- bumped in with the side of your fist, and two hands next to each other to remove. The PM 27 I used to have was a very loose slip fit, and cast aluminum if I remember.
On my newer T26, I just had my table ring opening enlarged by my son about 2 weeks ago in Machine Tech class. A lot of the newer Euro cutters like to use 160 mm as their outer diameter, and the opening was something like 159.4 mm or so,
An interference fit is not good.
I had him open it to 165 mm and it works slick.
I noticed most rings are cast iron, but he said when cutting this, that it is some kind of hardened steel, based on how it cut, and the chips it made.

[Larry Edgerton]

I just picked up a tilting spindle sliding table (tenoning set up) gomad. 3rd one I have owned, better built than any scmi I have owned.

Ugly color though, hard to color coordinate.;)

I'll take the tenoning table off your hands. Been looking, if you happen to run across one give me a shout. Nice units.

[Larry Copas]

Larry, did you make your rings from aluminum? If so do you have trouble with marking?

Yes, they are aluminum and no trouble with marking. I do keep the rings and table waxed. I'm not a production shop either.

[Joe Calhoon]

Thanks Larry.

[Warren Lake]

Dont most shapers have an arm that you move and it puts pressure on the rings or at least the very outside ring?

[Darcy Warner]

Darcy did you ever have a T160 SCM. saw one at an auction years back the useable spindle was double most shapers and it turned with zero resistance. Well maintained old beige machine way heavier than my T130.

Had one of the two tone green ones and an older l'invincible t160. The older ones were tanks.

[Warren Lake]

have the two tone, very fashionable. I had just thought when people were talking machines its a bit more than names and a bit what model as well, the T160 I saw for the first time was a much more substantial machine.

[Larry Edgerton]

I see the Minimax T55 W Elite is on sale for $8K new. Not a bad machine.

[Darcy Warner]

Had to dig the gomad tilting spindle out today so I could run 100 feet of drip cap. 371745371746

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[Travis Porter]

Nice dust collection. ;-)

[Darcy Warner]

Nice dust collection. ;-)

I was too lazy to find a longer hose to hook it up.

[Larry Edgerton]

Had to dig the gomad tilting spindle out today so I could run 100 feet of drip cap. 371745371746

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You should probably get the tenoning table out of the way and send it to me, you know, just for safetys sake.:p

That one has some miles on it, the plane marks being worn all the way off. Would be cool to know how many miles of wood have gone across that table. Mine still looks like new. Bet its a lot!

[Darcy Warner]

You should probably get the tenoning table out of the way and send it to me, you know, just for safetys sake.:p

That one has some miles on it, the plane marks being worn all the way off. Would be cool to know how many miles of wood have gone across that table. Mine still looks like new. Bet its a lot!

The planing marks on the table look the same as every other gomad shaper or saw I have had. The insert rings are beat up, but I have the ones that are oblong for tilting the spindle, 4 spindles including a router collet one.

They are built like a tank, an ugly tank, but a tank none the less.

[Larry Edgerton]

I agree. Every time I sit down to have a coffee I look at that thing and think, "Damn, that thing is ugly!" Thought about painting it red with flames, but that is as far as that got. They sure work good though.

[Greg Mann]

I don’t know, guys. It looks to me like Darcy has that Rubbermaid bucket positioned just about right for the chips.:D