Which planes to get?

[Tim M Tuttle]

Morning all,

I am wanting to get a couple of planes. I dont do a lot of hand tool work and my future projects wont call for it really, but there have been and will be times that I'll need a plane. I'd like to start out with a block plane and a bench plane. My knowledge of planes is very limited so I am looking for advice on the bench plane. From some research I've done it sounds like a block plane and a low angle jack plane will cover the vast majority of needs.

Is that a good place to start? What should be considered when purchasing planes?

Thanks

[Steve Schoene]

I'd want to have a smooth plane--ie. no 4, or if you have small hands a no. 3. A finely set smoother is much better than sanding to remove planer or jointer marks. If I planned to do much jointing of boards together to create panels, I'd also want a no. 7.

[Tony Wilkins]

It depends on how you are going to use them. If you are using them along side of power tools, a block and smoother would be a good choice. If you are using only hand tools, I'd suggest a #5 jack plane to start.

also, are you looking new, already restored vintage, or getting a vintage to restore yourself. If looking for suggestions, I'd recommend the middle from someone like Don Williol (sp?) at time tested tools.

bottom line on bottom (BLOB): what are you looking to do with it?

[andy bessette]

A low angle block, a jack and a shoulder plane, to start.

[Mark AJ Allen]

The block and jack are a good start ... the block is generally useful, even if you aren't a handtools guy. The Jack is an all-purpose, not ideal for any particular task, but capable of most.

[John Sanford]

I dont do a lot of hand tool work and my future projects wont call for it really, but there have been and will be times that I'll need a plane.

This. What have you needed a plane for? In my albeit limited experience, the most useful planes for a powertool woodworker are the Low Angle Block, the Shoulder (medium or large) and the Router Plane. Why those three? Because they are the ones that excel at fitting joinery. You could toss the side rabbet plane in there as well, it's da bomb for making a groove just a wee bit wider, but it is a one trick pony. The bench planes are primarily for stock prep and finish prep.

[Frederick Skelly]

Mr. Sanford asks good questions.

For the work I do, a #3 or #4 smoother, plus a low angle block plane would be a good starting place, followed by a router plane. YMMV.

[Prashun Patel]

I would get a low angle block plane first.
Then I'd spend time learning how to use it and *sharpen it*.

Next I'd get a #4 bevel down smooth plane. I'll sell all my planes before this one.

[David Bassett]

I would get a low angle block plane first.
Then I'd spend time learning how to use it and *sharpen it*.

....

This!

Get the low angle block plane, use it for everything, and figure out what it doesn't do well in your workflow!

Then ask again about the best options to cover the deficiencies you have identified.

[steven c newman]

Be very careful, though...as these things can be addictive..
371155
DAMHIKT....

[Tim M Tuttle]

Thanks for the info everyone. Hrm, where to start. I'll put the caveat out there that I want to use a power tool whenever possible but I know that planes can be indispensable for various tasks even with a shop full of every power tool imaginable. The things on my list to make in the near future are outdoor furniture, mid century furniture, and probably a host of cutting boards. That's not to say that I wont dabble in other things at some point. I can see myself needing to smooth a top or take the wobble out of a cutting board.

Someone asked if I wanted to restore a plane or get a vintage one and the answer to that would be no. Whatever I decide on I will probably go with Woodriver from Woodcraft. Obviously not top of the line but not crap either.

A jack plane seems to be a popular recommendation. However, there are numerous variations it seems. Which of these two would be best?

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-62-low-angle-jack-plane?via=573621f469702d06760016cd%2C57641c7e69702 d3baa000a33%2C57641c8769702d3baa000a34

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-5-1-2-jack-plane?via=573621f469702d06760016cd%2C57641c7e69702 d3baa000a33%2C57641c8769702d3baa000a34

Thanks!

[Phil Mueller]

Assuming you do most of your stock prep and a majority of your joinery with power tools, I would be considering tools that can help refine things when needed. A block plane is often quicker to shorten a tenon, add a chamfer, or even take down an odd high spot, than setting up machines. Likewise, a shoulder plane is great for fine tuning a tenon, dado, or rabbet as is a router plane. I also wouldn’t count out a spokeshave to refine curves, tapers, rounded pieces, etc.

If your power set up doesn’t give you the perfect 90 or 45 angles you want, the #62 would be a good choice for shooting. I see the #5 as very versitile, but often considered a stock prep plane. If you’re looking for ways to smooth a panel versus sanding, a smoothing plane should be considered. As already suggested, it just all kind of depends on what power tools you have and what tasks you need to accomplish where you either don’t have the power tool, or it’s just too much hassle to set one up.

[David Bassett]

... A jack plane seems to be a popular recommendation. ...

(I'm not sure we're reading the same thread, but...)


Which of these two would be best? ....

Of those two, the bevel-up will be better for end-grain and a little easier to use. The bevel-down will require a little more skill, but be more versatile for the things a Jack Plane usually used for (faces & edges during stock prep.)

[Pat Barry]

At least one person suggested a router plane. This might be one of the least useful planes for a power tool user. I have never needed a router plane because I have a router and a tablesaw and can cut dadoes and rabbets with either or both depending on what makes the most sense.

[Noah Magnuson]

I would get a low angle block plane first.
Then I'd spend time learning how to use it and *sharpen it*.
...


This!

Get the low angle block plane, use it for everything, and figure out what it doesn't do well in your workflow!

...

This ^^. It was my first hand plane after saying basically "I dont do a lot of hand tool work and my future projects wont call for it really, but there have been and will be times that I'll need a plane"...within a year I had gone full neander.

Also, I would recommend going with high out-of-the-box quality for your first plane so you get good results early. Then you can take on tuning and fettling as you wish.

[Hasin Haroon]

Hey Tim, what's your budget? If you are ok with spending for a Veritas/Lie Nielsen, you can get a couple planes that will come to you ready to work as finely tuned specimens right out of the box. Otherwise you'll have to spend some time fettling and learning a little bit about what makes a plane great. And either way you'll need a sharpening set up that works for you.

If I had to pick 2, I'd pick a low angle block plane and a jack plane. Any jack plane would do, but a low angle would provide some extra versatility.

[Jim Koepke]

The things on my list to make in the near future are outdoor furniture, mid century furniture, and probably a host of cutting boards. That's not to say that I wont dabble in other things at some point. I can see myself needing to smooth a top or take the wobble out of a cutting board.

The two planes in the links are quite different. The #5-1/2 has a wider blade and may be less useful than a #5 jack plane with a 2" blade.

If you are planing on making cutting boards with end grain surfaces, the #62 is a good choice. You might want to consider an extra blade or two to camber one more like a scrub plane's blade for knocking down the wobble of a cutting board and another to have a higher angle bevel to fight tear out in difficult woods. A low angle bevel up plane excels on end grain. That was my main reason for buying an LN #62.

If you choose a bevel down jack plane you may want one extra blade to camber for the quick removal of twists and other wobble makers. A #5 or #5-1/2 are not the best smoothers, but they can do the job.

Jack planes, as in "Jack of all trades" are very versatile and are able to do almost anything that they are needed to do. They are not as good at smoothing as a smoother, nor are they as good at jointing as a jointer. But in trained hands they can do the jointing a smoother would be hard pressed to do and can do the smoothing a jointer would have trouble doing. That is why they are one of the most common planes found in yard sales and other such markets.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

The two planes in the links are quite different. The #5-1/2 has a wider blade and may be less useful than a #5 jack plane with a 2" blade.

Where's the "YMMV"? :-)

[Jim Koepke]

Where's the "YMMV"? :-)

LOL!

jtk ...

[steven c newman]

Surprisingly easy to spend someone else's money, isn't it....YMMV

[Jim Koepke]

There is a way to make a message have less than 10 characters.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Surprisingly easy to spend someone else's money, isn't it....YMMV

And fun!

jtk

[Frederick Skelly]

At least one person suggested a router plane. This might be one of the least useful planes for a power tool user. I have never needed a router plane because I have a router and a tablesaw and can cut dadoes and rabbets with either or both depending on what makes the most sense.

Well Pat, it might depend on how you like to work. For example, I cut dados on the tablesaw. Sometimes they aren't quite a uniform depth. So I originally bought a router plane to correct that. Granted that my dadoing routine was crappy, but time and again I've personally found that little router plane to help me in this scenario.

Doesnt work for everybody, but it sure works for me. :) YMMV.

Best regards,
Fred

[Roy Turbett]

If I had to pick 2, I'd pick a low angle block plane and a jack plane.

+1 This past weekend my neighbor came over and wanted to make a threshold for his wife's rustic "she shed". I am currently without a power jointer so I used a No. 5 jack plane to flatten one side of a twisted 2 x 8, ran it through my thickness planer, and returned to the jack plane to smooth the top and add the bevels.

The plane I used is a Stanley Bailey "Sweetheart era" that I picked up at a yard sale for $20 and it came with three irons that were ground for different uses. One iron has a radius grind that is good for rapid stock removal, one is ground flat for use with a shooting board, and the other has a slight camber for smoothing. I used the rounded iron and the cambered iron for this project and completed it in about the same amount of time it would have taken with a power jointer.

I usually have a small block plane in my tool pouch because it is so handy for getting things to fit and does a great job on end grain.

[Pat Barry]

Well Pat, it might depend on how you like to work. For example, I cut dados on the tablesaw. Sometimes they aren't quite a uniform depth. So I originally bought a router plane to correct that. Granted that my dadoing routine was crappy, but time and again I've personally found that little router plane to help me in this scenario.

Doesnt work for everybody, but it sure works for me. :) YMMV.

Best regards,
Fred
Sure, you can certainly do that, but I would wonder why your dadoes aren't a uniform depth. There could be several reasons / root causes, and using the router plane could get you back to uniform depth, but, if you aren't getting a uniform depth because the piece you are dadoing isn't flat to begin with, having a uniform depth isn't really buying you anything. Lets say its a side for a bookcase. If it is bowed and that is the reason the depth isn't uniform, are you just going to clamp it flat during glue-up? Maybe you are referring to non-uniform depth as being caused by a dado set that doesn't cut a perfectly square bottom. Mine leaves tiny grooves coincidental with some of the points on the teeth. This doesn't bother me in my work, but if it did I'd use the router. Like you said, MMMV.

[David Bassett]

I'm thinking we need the OP to clarify just what his specific goal(s) is(/are). I read this:


... I'll put the caveat out there that I want to use a power tool whenever possible but I know that planes can be indispensable for various tasks even with a shop full of every power tool imaginable. ....

to say this:


... I am currently without a power jointer so I used a No. 5 jack plane....

isn't applicable. (Otherwise I think the advice is great. It shows how the Jack plane excels.) It seems to me this thread is so confused because there are a lot of correct answers to significantly different questions.

[David Ryle]

Pop over to your local Lowes and pick up one of their blue Kobalt planes,it's approx a 41/2, you will in all likelihood have to flatten the sole,a coarse sandpaper attached to a 16x4" piece of plate glass should take care of that,also remove the gunk that the iron is coated in. Why this one? It's readily available,cheap and regardless which source you use for a middle range plane some fettling is going to be unavoidable so why not! The one area that you will have to give some real thought to is sharpening. Given your preference for power tools how much hand sharpening have you done. You tube would be a good starting point for a tutorial.

[Patrick Chase]

Pop over to your local Lowes and pick up one of their blue Kobalt planes,it's approx a 41/2, you will in all likelihood have to flatten the sole,a coarse sandpaper attached to a 16x4" piece of plate glass should take care of that,also remove the gunk that the iron is coated in. Why this one? It's readily available,cheap and regardless which source you use for a middle range plane some fettling is going to be unavoidable so why not! The one area that you will have to give some real thought to is sharpening. Given your preference for power tools how much hand sharpening have you done. You tube would be a good starting point for a tutorial.

I think that the validity of this advice depends heavily on the value of your time.

The Lowes/Cobalt (and Borg/Buck, and HF/Windsor) planes are cheap for a reason. The bodies are poorly machined, the irons are thin and often warped, etc. Some of them can be tuned up to reasonable performance levels and others can't, but unless you value your time at minimum wage it's unlikely to be a sound investment to do so.

FWIW my preferred sources from least expensive to most are:


Classic Stanley/Record/Miller Falls/Sargent/etc plane from eBay or similar. If you're lucky these will cost about as much as Kobalt and co, but they're fundamentally higher quality tools to start with, that can more easily be turned into first-rate performers. As always with eBay you run the risk of getting a lemon.
Same as above except from a reputable tool dealer. People will be happy to give you references for their favorite dealers. This will cost you more than Fleabay, but in exchange you don't have to worry about getting a lemon or something different than represented, as the dealer filters those out for you.
Quangsheng (a.k.a. WoodRiver). These are well-made planes at reasonable prices.
Lee Valley and Lie-Nielsen. High price, exquisite quality, great customer service, etc.

One key thing to note is that basically all of these with the exception of true "eBay lemons" can be tuned up using sweat alone (no aftermarket irons required) to be first-rate performers. As a rule the more you pay, the less effort you'll need to invest.

[andy bessette]

Pop over to your local Lowes and pick up one of their blue Kobalt planes...

Better not to get in the habit of buying cheap crap. Buy quality, even if it is used.

[David Bassett]

True, but I was working on a 2 x 8 which is wider than the 6" jointers found in most shops. Seems this is the type of application the OP is thinking of.

That's a great reason to want a jack, or a joining, plane and nothing like I read OP's scenario. That's why I suggest OP needs to provide more details about why he needs (/wants) a plane.

[Roy Turbett]

I'm thinking we need the OP to clarify just what his specific goal(s) is(/are).

to say this:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Roy Turbett http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=2742418#post2742418)
... I am currently without a power jointer so I used a No. 5 jack plane....

isn't applicable. (Otherwise I think the advice is great. It shows how the Jack plane excels.) It seems to me this thread is so confused because there are a lot of correct answers to significantly different questions.

True, but I was taking the twist out of a 2 x 8 which is wider than the 6" jointer I recently sold. Seems to me the jack plane would still be a better choice even if I had kept the jointer.

[Roy Turbett]

Pop over to your local Lowes and pick up one of their blue Kobalt planes,it's approx a 41/2, you will in all likelihood have to flatten the sole,a coarse sandpaper attached to a 16x4" piece of plate glass should take care of that,also remove the gunk that the iron is coated in. Why this one? It's readily available,cheap and regardless which source you use for a middle range plane some fettling is going to be unavoidable so why not! The one area that you will have to give some real thought to is sharpening. Given your preference for power tools how much hand sharpening have you done. You tube would be a good starting point for a tutorial.

A friend stopped by my shop today to show me a Buck plane he picked up at Home Depot as a gift for his son. The stem on the yoke was too short to properly engage the chip breaker to raise and lower the iron and no amount of tuning would correct the problem. The bottom of the frog was milled but it wasn't even as one side was deeper than the other. The mating surface on the sole was painted and wasn't milled at all and the chip breaker had a significant gap where it met the iron. But what do you expect for $30?

I don't know the quality of the Kobalt plane, but there is a YouTube video where a guy compares the effort it takes to get a Lie-Nielson, Stanley and Harbor Freight plane to the point where they will perform reasonably well. As expected, the Lie-Nielson performed well right out of the box, the 80 year old Stanley required a medium amount of effort to get it to work as well as the Lie-Nielson, and the least expensive plane from Harbor Freight required the most effort. He put a value of $15/hour on the time he spent working on the planes and concluded that the price of the Lie-Nielson isn't all that unreasonable considering the effort he put into the other two. IMHO, the older Stanley is the best value if you're just looking at getting a plane to work as well as a new quality plane but not necessarily look like new. I've bought several Stanley's on Ebay and typically pay $30-$40 and have found them for $20 or less at yard and estate sales. The Harbor Freight is just too much work regardless of price.

I've also watched Rob Crossman's evaluation of the Woodriver plane from Woodcraft and think this brand may be a good choice given the OP's desire to get something that will work well right out of the box. Of course he's going to have to spend more money than he would for a Stanley but less than he would for a Lie-Nielson.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

I was in the same situation in summer 2015. I also bought low angle rabbet block plane made in China (same as WoodRiver but called Juuma). And then I bought low angle jack plane. I have 18 planes now by the end of 2017 (one Juuma and others are Veritas).

Sharpening was and still is a huge part of that. I chose coarse diamond plate and one combo waterstone 1000/6000 early on, after some try with scary sharpening (on sand paper). Good side effect of that is that now I can sharpen knifes really good also! :)

I would not fix on just two planes. I think your question about two planes is not the right question to ask... I would change that question. There is WoodRiver starter set of three planes that looks very much like what my most used planes are now. I still use low angle rabbet block plane. And other two are #7 and #4-1/2. In case of WoodRiver's Ultimate Cabinet Maker's Kit it is low angle block plane and #4 and #6 (I would prefer bigger #7 though). Or you can get them one by one over time.

I'm not using low angle jack plane all that much now, not after I bought dedicated shooting plane (that is a wonder tool!). But then again, when I was starting out I did bought it as my second hand plane. So, you do that too and let's see how many planes you will have in two years! :)

[David Ryle]

I agree with everything you say, in my time eBay has provided me with both gems and lemons. But I think we may be losing sight of the gentlemen's original post content, he just wants a plane for touch-up, or at least that's how I'm reading it. The Kobalt isn't top notch but from my experience the amount of tuning actually wasn't that bad for what I paid,my sons use them and neither of them are hand tool users by inclination(tools with tails are their preference), but for the occaisonal use they get it done!

[Tim M Tuttle]

One thing is for certain, I know crap about planes. :D

Good info in here. Perhaps I shall pause this whole endeavor and wait till the situation arises and then ask advice on that particular situation. The reason I am asking now is because I know at some in the near future I'll need a plane (I have a crap bench plane that I bought at my local hardware store for $20) and I dont like waiting for the need to make the buy. It usually wrecks a day (or more if it has to be shipped).

Thanks for all the info, everyone.

[David Bassett]

I still think we're guessing about the OP's goals here. I'm reading a lot of good advice that doesn't seem to me to be relevant for what OP wants. OTOH- if he wants to move into a hybrid, or even handtool, style of work he will want a couple planes.


... I would not fix on just two planes. I think your question about two planes is not the right question to ask... I would change that question. There is WoodRiver starter set of three planes that looks very much like what my most used planes are now. I still use low angle rabbet block plane. And other two are #7 and #4-1/2. In case of WoodRiver's Ultimate Cabinet Maker's Kit it is low angle block plane and #4 and #6 (I would prefer bigger #7 though). Or you can get them one by one over time.

Well, maybe we should let him decide how into this he wants to be on his own. :)

My advice to someone getting into hand planes would be that there are nuances and tradeoffs and they need to do some study to optimize their selection(s) to their needs. Then, if they didn't want to make that initial investment, I'd tell them to get the Veritas starter set. I'd say this on the theory, that if they won't study the basics to make a selection they won't learn to use a chip-breaker and they won't learn to fettle lesser planes. I have the Windriver Low-Angle Block plane and it's decent, but it took a lot more tweaking and had a steeper learning curve than the Veritas planes I own (or the LN planes I've tried at their road shows.) That warning said, I do like the selection in the WR set a little better than the LV one and you'd save a few bucks.

OTOH- I still read the OP's goal differently and think a LA Block plane would be ideal for 70-80% of what he wants and adequate for almost all the rest.



... Sharpening was and still is a huge part of that. I chose coarse diamond plate and one combo waterstone 1000/6000 early on, after some try with scary sharpening (on sand paper). Good side effect of that is that now I can sharpen knifes really good also! :)

This has mostly been ignored here and can't really be emphasized enough as the way you keep (or get) a plane to perform well. Again, lots of systems and lots of tradeoffs. All, (well most,) can work well and the choice depends on personal preference and working situation.

For my hypothetical no-thinking beginner, I'd suggest the Spyderco Medium and Extra-Fine ceramic stones, which should be fine for keeping any decent iron sharp and seem to have a minimal hassle factor. For the rare flattening, coarse repair or reshaping, etc. I'd just suggest sandpaper on MDF. (If you're rust hunting, making major mods, or really prone to major repairs then diamond "stones" become much more interesting.)


I'm not using low angle jack plane all that much now, not after I bought dedicated shooting plane (that is a wonder tool!). But then again, when I was starting out I did bought it as my second hand plane. So, you do that too and let's see how many planes you will have in two years! :)

I'm pretty sure this doesn't qualify as a "power tool guy". (And cut it out. You're going to scare him before he's properly hooked! :) )

[David Bassett]

One thing is for certain, I know crap about planes. :D

Good info in here. Perhaps I shall pause this whole endeavor and wait till the situation arises and then ask advice on that particular situation. The reason I am asking now is because I know at some in the near future I'll need a plane (I have a crap bench plane that I bought at my local hardware store for $20) and I dont like waiting for the need to make the buy. It usually wrecks a day (or more if it has to be shipped).

Thanks for all the info, everyone.

Oops, more info while I was typing speculation.

I think this is a rational approach and would get you the most optimal selection of planes for your needs. OTOH- stopping a project while you wait to get a tool isn't great. So...

I don't think there's a collection of planes where a block plane isn't useful. Maybe start with the block plane, which is the jack of all small tasks, and will handle a lot of things so you have something on hand. Then if, or when, you run into surfacing larger boards, fitting some specific joint, or whatever other task that overwhelms the Block plane in your shop, you can look into augmenting your set.

Good luck!

[Patrick Chase]

I've also watched Rob Crossman's evaluation of the Woodriver plane from Woodcraft and think this brand may be a good choice given the OP's desire to get something that will work well right out of the box.

One thing to bear in mind when watching Rob Cosman's "evaluations" of those planes is that WoodCraft employed him to work with Quangsheng to refine the design. He's reviewing his own work there.

[steven c newman]

I MIGHT have a "spare" low angle block plane, a spare #5 jack plane, and either a spare #3 or #4 smooth plane. IF the OP wants to pay the shipping.....I can box them up.
All will be tuned up, and ready to go right out of the box. Let the OP try them out....and see how each fits into what he is doing.

Just a thought....

[James Pallas]

I would not pass up Steven's offer. I would start with a #5. Learn how to drive on that and the rest will be easier. Block planes are a great tool but you won't learn much about planing. A straight BD Jack will do most any job.
Jim

[Tim M Tuttle]

I MIGHT have a "spare" low angle block plane, a spare #5 jack plane, and either a spare #3 or #4 smooth plane. IF the OP wants to pay the shipping.....I can box them up.
All will be tuned up, and ready to go right out of the box. Let the OP try them out....and see how each fits into what he is doing.

Just a thought....

You've got yourself a deal, sir! Thanks!

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

I MIGHT have a "spare" low angle block plane, a spare #5 jack plane, and either a spare #3 or #4 smooth plane. IF the OP wants to pay the shipping.....I can box them up.
All will be tuned up, and ready to go right out of the box. Let the OP try them out....and see how each fits into what he is doing.

Just a thought....

That I didn't see coming! And what a great way to celebrate hundred years of you-might-not-know-of today. I wish free learning to everyone! :)

[Bill McNiel]

That I didn't see coming! And what a great way to celebrate hundred years of you-might-not-know-of today. I wish free learning to everyone! :)

Andrey - Interesting that the USA is holding elections today, yes? Kudos for the learning reference!

regards - Bill

[Roy Turbett]

One thing to bear in mind when watching Rob Cosman's "evaluations" of those planes is that WoodCraft employed him to work with Quangsheng to refine the design. He's reviewing his own work there.

Good point.

[Frederick Skelly]

One thing to bear in mind when watching Rob Cosman's "evaluations" of those planes is that WoodCraft employed him to work with Quangsheng to refine the design. He's reviewing his own work there.

That's certainly true and worth remembering.

Personally, I find them to be an acceptable product. I have two. I wrote this review (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?209704-Tool-Review-Wood-River-3-Version-3-Hand-Plane&highlight=Review) about four years back. I'm still very happy with that WR#3. In fact, they are on sale for 20% off right now.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Tim,

You have some great advise above. The thing that strikes me, however, is you were asking for fairly basic information on block planes. However, some of the advise started in the middle, rather than at the beginning, so I was thinking that maybe it would be OK to give a basic beginning review of the different types of bench planes and a word or two on the block plane. This is not to contradict what is written above, just to give a little more basic information so as to make clearer what is written above.

The first function, historically, of bench planes was starting with rough lumber and getting it to flat smooth lumber that is the right thickness and prepared so that it can be glued up, if need be.

There are three basic functions of bench planes, which are smoothing, flattening, and stock removal. In this description, I will write about Stanley planes because they are so very common, and some of the other companies used similar number to describe the size of the plane, but not all did. For that reason I also list the length of the plane and the width of the iron.

The first step is stock removal to get close to the right thickness, and to start to flatten the lumber. The stock removal plane is the "Fore" Plane, as it is used "fore" any other plane is used. It uses a fairly cambered iron, so as to take off stock fairly quickly and also do some rough flattening. The classic fore plane is the Stanley #6, which is about 18 inches long and takes a 2&3/8" wide iron. A strongly cambered iron takes of stock pretty quickly. The Stanley #5, the "Jack" plane is also used for a "fore" plane by some folks, and works fine, again with a heavily cambered iron. The #5 is 14" long and take a 2" wide iron.

The next step is flattening, and for this a jointer plane is used. It has a pretty long sole, and a mildly cambered iron. The classic jointer planes are the Stanley #7 and the Stanley #8. The #7 is about 22" long, and takes a 2&3/8" wide iron. The #8 is about 24" long, and takes a 2&5/8" wide iron, and is one horse of a plane, it seems significantly heavier than the #7. There are a heck of a lot more #7s than #8s around, so this tells you which one folks generally preferred to use, and the #8s cost more too. These use a mildly cambered iron, and if used to flatten a surface like a bench top, or even something as big as a table top, a lot of folks first go across the width and about a 45 degree angle to the length of the surface. After going over the entire surface from one side, this is normally followed by the same procedure from the other side. The idea is to remove the needed amount of material, and at the same thing to level things out, checking the surface with winding sticks as you go. After it is pretty much the dead flat, the plane is used length wise down the length of the surface to get the surface dead flat. The long length of the sole helps tremendously. The jointer plane is also called a "try" plane, because it is used to "try" the surface and get it dead flat. Stanley also advertised the #6 as a small jointer plane. It could be carried by a carpenter in his tool box more easily than the larger two sizes, and quite a few may have been sold for just that purpose.

The last plane used is the smoothing plane which uses a very slightly cambered iron and it is used to get the lumber smooth and ready to finish, normally you take a very thin shaving. The standard smoothing planes are the Stanley #4 and #3, the ones I have a both about 8&3/4" long. The #4 takes a 2" wide iron and the #3 takes a 1&3/4" wide iron. The other commonly used smoothing plane is the #4&1/2 which is a little longer, and takes a 2&3/8" wide iron. It is typically used on larger surfaces because it takes a wider curling. Much less common and much less commonly used are the Stanley #1 and #2, which are also classed as smoothing planes, but they are pretty small, and the original Stanley planes in those sizes tend to be pricey, the #1, if you find one, will be extremely pricey if the seller knows what he has.

Even in a very extensive Neander shop, however, you don't need all of the variations of sizes. You can get by quite well with one smoother, one jointer, and one fore plane. The best choice as to which one of each of the size options will depend on the size of your work. Some guys, like Steven and Jim, use multiple sizes, but most of us can get by, again, with only one of each.

However, there is another option to having the three common sizes of planes.

That brings us to the jack plane. That size is the one carpenters normally carried, and home handymen, home hobby woodworkers, and maintenance men who had to do carpentry or general woodworking repair work most often had. The #5 is 14" long and uses a 2" wide iron. The other size Jack planes are the #5&1/4 and the #5&1/2, the 5&1/4 being a bit smaller and the #5&1/2 being a bit larger. By far the most common, overwhelmingly, is the #5, which tells you which one was the most generally useful.

If you have the three types of irons for it, heavily cambered, mildly cambered, and slightly cambered, it can be used as a fore plane, a jointer plane, and a smoothing plane. It will not do any one of the thee jobs as well as the dedicated plane, but in skilled hands it can do any of the three jobs to a reasonable extent. I had only a #5 and a block plane for a long time, and used it for everything. Lots of folks did just that because they may have only had the one plane.

That brings us to the difference between bevel up (low angle) planes and bevel down (standard bench planes such as the Stanley Bailey planes) versions. The low angle planes are more of a specialist, doing wonderfully on end grain and for that type of application such as a shooting plane, but pretty prone to tear out if used lengthwise on a board. The standard planes on the other hand are better for planing lengthwise down a board or wooden surface, but not so good on end grain. Thus if your cutting boards are going to have end grain up, you want the low angle plane (I would use a #5) for a standard size cutting board. On the other hand, if your cutting boards are going to have the lumber run lengthwise down the cutting board, the standard bench plane is better. The standard #5 will also be much better for general woodworking.

The above is a short survey of the historical uses of the planes. I use mine for many other tasks.

Finally, "sharp" cover a multitude of sins. If your Stanley Bailey #5 is frighteningly sharp, it can be used for shooting and for end grain work. It won't do as well as a bevel up plane, but it can be used. Because of that critical factor "sharpness," you will need to know about sharpening, and have some sharpening stuff.

For general woodworking, you can use a very sharp #5 for final smoothing up of an edge worked on by a power jointer to clean up chatter marks, just before glue up, etc. You can use it to fine tune doors, etc. to fit. You will use it for lots of things.

Regards,

Stew

[andy bessette]

...I dont do a lot of hand tool work and my future projects wont call for it really...


...The first function, historically, of bench planes was starting with rough lumber and getting it to flat smooth lumber that is the right thickness and prepared so that it can be glued up, if need be.

There are three basic functions of bench planes, which are smoothing, flattening, and stock removal...The first step is stock removal to get close to the right thickness, and to start to flatten the lumber...

The next step is flattening, and for this a jointer plane is used...

The last plane used is the smoothing plane which uses a very slightly cambered iron and it is used to get the lumber smooth and ready to finish...

I would bet that the OP will not be using a plane much for these functions. As a professional woodworker I rarely use a plane as you describe because machines can do it so much better/faster.

[steven c newman]

We'll find out soon enough....sending out a Millers Falls No. 56B Low angleblock plane ( same as a 60-1/2 stanley) the will also be a #4c and a #5 c from Stanley. All three were my users. They are set up, and sharpened. He should have them by next week, depending on the Pony Express...er..USPS....

[Patrick Chase]

That's certainly true and worth remembering.

Personally, I find them to be an acceptable product. I have two. I wrote this review (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?209704-Tool-Review-Wood-River-3-Version-3-Hand-Plane&highlight=Review) about four years back. I'm still very happy with that WR#3. In fact, they are on sale for 20% off right now.

Yes, as I said in #28 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?259177-Which-planes-to-get&p=2742450#post2742450) I think the Wood Rivers are a reasonable tradeoff. I have a #3 and a #5. They're not quite as pleasant to use as my LV/LN planes, with somewhat rougher adjustments and overall build, as well as (IMO) excess weight. They also required more work to set up. Like anything made of water-hardened steel ("T10" steel is W1) the irons can require a fair amount of work in particular. With all of that said, they yield top-notch results with a moderate amount of tuneup, and that's what really matters.

[Patrick Chase]

We'll find out soon enough....sending out a Millers Falls No. 56B Low angleblock plane ( same as a 60-1/2 stanley) the will also be a #4c and a #5 c from Stanley. All three were my users. They are set up, and sharpened. He should have them by next week, depending on the Pony Express...er..USPS....

Wow, the OP just lucked out big time. He probably won't realize just how lucky until he tries to procure a used plane through more "normal" channels.

[steven c newman]

Called "Paying it forward" something more of us should try to do......

[Frederick Skelly]

Called "Paying it forward" something more of us should try to do......

+1. Good show Steven!

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

A lot of great, informative and well intended comments. However, I think we are being a little naive here, so I'm going to lay down the simple facts. It doesn't really matter which planes the OP starts with, nor his intent to only buy two planes to take care of the odd task that is ill-suited to power tools. Once he uses one well set up hand plane he will NEED TO BUY THEM ALL :). It's an infections disease and self-administering a small dose can only lead to a full-blow outbreak that may even spread to woodworking friends. Sad, but ultimately true. So go through the motions, back-and-forth's and indecision associated with narrowing your choice to just two planes, but don't stress too much; because you'll be getting the rest at some stage anyway! :D. Just like a zombie apocalypse - it only takes a bite.

Also, wow, just read the last few posts! Nice one Steven, really great of you! Guess the zombie came to you Tim.

Cheers,

Dom

[Frederick Skelly]

Yes, as I said in #28 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?259177-Which-planes-to-get&p=2742450#post2742450) I think the Wood Rivers are a reasonable tradeoff. I have a #3 and a #5. They're not quite as pleasant to use as my LV/LN planes, with somewhat rougher adjustments and overall build, as well as (IMO) excess weight. They also required more work to set up. Like anything made of water-hardened steel ("T10" steel is W1) the irons can require a fair amount of work in particular. With all of that said, they yield top-notch results with a moderate amount of tuneup, and that's what really matters.

Sounds like we agree then! Just wanted the OP to know that there are more than one satisfied user here. ;)

I definitely agree about the weight.

Have a good one Pat.
Fred

[Derek Cohen]

Morning all,

I am wanting to get a couple of planes. I dont do a lot of hand tool work and my future projects wont call for it really, but there have been and will be times that I'll need a plane. I'd like to start out with a block plane and a bench plane. My knowledge of planes is very limited so I am looking for advice on the bench plane. From some research I've done it sounds like a block plane and a low angle jack plane will cover the vast majority of needs.

Is that a good place to start? What should be considered when purchasing planes?

Thanks

Hi Tim

When your focus is almost entirely on power tools, then the hand planes you will find useful are those that enable you to tweak joints.

A standard angle block plane is helpful for breaking edges, chamfering, or removing plane marks. Set it with a 30 degree bevel for a 50 degree cutting angle. You then do not need a smoother (out goes the #3 or #4).

I might have recommended a router plane for hinge mortices, however I suspect that you will prefer to use a power router and finish with a chisel. Similarly, tweaking mortice and tenon joints would generally call for a shoulder plane, but you will does these with power. Still, a shoulder plane is really useful for fine tuning rebates. A possibility?

The third option may sound unnecessary at first, but a common #5 jack would be used to take down high spots on a board you are ready to flatten on a jointer. Plus, with a second blade (one with a larger radius for fast removal and another with a fine camber for smoothing), it could be a smoother or even short jointer plane for edges. Working with this plane will give you the taste of hand planing, and then you may decide to go further.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tim M Tuttle]

I've already run into a couple of instances where a shoulder plane would have been handy. While, at this moment, I am saying I wont do a lot with hand tools, things change and the more I am exposed to woodworking the more I tend to dive in. This whole adventure of mine started about a year ago when I wanted a simple workbench in the garage for doing household stuff. 10 months later and I have a garage full of tools, my car is permanently banished to the driveway, and just last night I put the finishing touches on subpanel installation and complete shop rewire and lighting!

https://i.imgur.com/YrBrUAk.jpg

[Tim M Tuttle]

Many thanks to everyone who has contributed in this thread. I've learned a great deal. And a special thanks to Steven for his incredible generosity!

[Rick Malakoff]

Hi Tim, I noticed that you have a Wen Air Cleaner, was thinking about one and was wondering if your happy with it's performance.
Rick

[Tim M Tuttle]

Hi Tim, I noticed that you have a Wen Air Cleaner, was thinking about one and was wondering if your happy with it's performance.
RickI am not unhappy nor happy. It's the only air cleaner I've ever had so I am not able to compare it to anything else. Honestly, the dust doesnt bother me (acutely, no idea in regards to chronic). I will say that the filters turn brown pretty quickly! Especially when I was flushing trimming some MDF to make my outfeed table.

Judging by appearance and specs it's the same thing as the Jet and Grizzly and a few others but the least expensive. I've also noticed various other Wen products that are strikingly similar to Jet and Grizzly.

An air quality monitor is on my wish list of purchases but I havent pulled the trigger yet.

[Rick Malakoff]

Thanks for your input, my guess id that if the filters get dirty, it's probably working. As to other products appearing the same especially from China I have to agree, same pig different lipstick.
Rick

[John Sanford]

At least one person suggested a router plane. This might be one of the least useful planes for a power tool user. I have never needed a router plane because I have a router and a tablesaw and can cut dadoes and rabbets with either or both depending on what makes the most sense.

I recommended it. And you're right, you can cut dadoes and rabbets with power tools. However, it can be a right royal PITA to fine tune a dado or rabbet with a power tool. Especially if you find out 3 weeks after you broke down the setup that you made the rabbet or dado with in the first place. All of my recommendations are for fine tuning joinery, not doing the joinery. Oh, and the LAB has the bonus ability to knock out chamfers like a champ. I'll spend a lot more time dialing in a powertool cut when I'm going to be doing 2 dozen of them than when I'm doing one. If it's only one, it can be quicker to cut just a wee bit shy of the what's needed and then spend a minute with a handplane dialing it in than it is fussing around with multiple test cuts. Somebody who spends 20 hours + a week doing power tool joinery can nail the setup much quicker than I, so they'd understandably have a different take.

[Roy Turbett]

Hi Tim,

You have some great advise above. The thing that strikes me, however, is you were asking for fairly basic information on block planes. However, some of the advise started in the middle, rather than at the beginning, so I was thinking that maybe it would be OK to give a basic beginning review of the different types of bench planes and a word or two on the block plane. This is not to contradict what is written above, just to give a little more basic information so as to make clearer what is written above.

The first function, historically, of bench planes was starting with rough lumber and getting it to flat smooth lumber that is the right thickness and prepared so that it can be glued up, if need be.

There are three basic functions of bench planes, which are smoothing, flattening, and stock removal. In this description, I will write about Stanley planes because they are so very common, and some of the other companies used similar number to describe the size of the plane, but not all did. For that reason I also list the length of the plane and the width of the iron.

The first step is stock removal to get close to the right thickness, and to start to flatten the lumber. The stock removal plane is the "Fore" Plane, as it is used "fore" any other plane is used. It uses a fairly cambered iron, so as to take off stock fairly quickly and also do some rough flattening. The classic fore plane is the Stanley #6, which is about 18 inches long and takes a 2&3/8" wide iron. A strongly cambered iron takes of stock pretty quickly. The Stanley #5, the "Jack" plane is also used for a "fore" plane by some folks, and works fine, again with a heavily cambered iron. The #5 is 14" long and take a 2" wide iron.

The next step is flattening, and for this a jointer plane is used. It has a pretty long sole, and a mildly cambered iron. The classic jointer planes are the Stanley #7 and the Stanley #8. The #7 is about 22" long, and takes a 2&3/8" wide iron. The #8 is about 24" long, and takes a 2&5/8" wide iron, and is one horse of a plane, it seems significantly heavier than the #7. There are a heck of a lot more #7s than #8s around, so this tells you which one folks generally preferred to use, and the #8s cost more too. These use a mildly cambered iron, and if used to flatten a surface like a bench top, or even something as big as a table top, a lot of folks first go across the width and about a 45 degree angle to the length of the surface. After going over the entire surface from one side, this is normally followed by the same procedure from the other side. The idea is to remove the needed amount of material, and at the same thing to level things out, checking the surface with winding sticks as you go. After it is pretty much the dead flat, the plane is used length wise down the length of the surface to get the surface dead flat. The long length of the sole helps tremendously. The jointer plane is also called a "try" plane, because it is used to "try" the surface and get it dead flat. Stanley also advertised the #6 as a small jointer plane. It could be carried by a carpenter in his tool box more easily than the larger two sizes, and quite a few may have been sold for just that purpose.

The last plane used is the smoothing plane which uses a very slightly cambered iron and it is used to get the lumber smooth and ready to finish, normally you take a very thin shaving. The standard smoothing planes are the Stanley #4 and #3, the ones I have a both about 8&3/4" long. The #4 takes a 2" wide iron and the #3 takes a 1&3/4" wide iron. The other commonly used smoothing plane is the #4&1/2 which is a little longer, and takes a 2&3/8" wide iron. It is typically used on larger surfaces because it takes a wider curling. Much less common and much less commonly used are the Stanley #1 and #2, which are also classed as smoothing planes, but they are pretty small, and the original Stanley planes in those sizes tend to be pricey, the #1, if you find one, will be extremely pricey if the seller knows what he has.

Even in a very extensive Neander shop, however, you don't need all of the variations of sizes. You can get by quite well with one smoother, one jointer, and one fore plane. The best choice as to which one of each of the size options will depend on the size of your work. Some guys, like Steven and Jim, use multiple sizes, but most of us can get by, again, with only one of each.

However, there is another option to having the three common sizes of planes.

That brings us to the jack plane. That size is the one carpenters normally carried, and home handymen, home hobby woodworkers, and maintenance men who had to do carpentry or general woodworking repair work most often had. The #5 is 14" long and uses a 2" wide iron. The other size Jack planes are the #5&1/4 and the #5&1/2, the 5&1/4 being a bit smaller and the #5&1/2 being a bit larger. By far the most common, overwhelmingly, is the #5, which tells you which one was the most generally useful.

If you have the three types of irons for it, heavily cambered, mildly cambered, and slightly cambered, it can be used as a fore plane, a jointer plane, and a smoothing plane. It will not do any one of the thee jobs as well as the dedicated plane, but in skilled hands it can do any of the three jobs to a reasonable extent. I had only a #5 and a block plane for a long time, and used it for everything. Lots of folks did just that because they may have only had the one plane.

That brings us to the difference between bevel up (low angle) planes and bevel down (standard bench planes such as the Stanley Bailey planes) versions. The low angle planes are more of a specialist, doing wonderfully on end grain and for that type of application such as a shooting plane, but pretty prone to tear out if used lengthwise on a board. The standard planes on the other hand are better for planing lengthwise down a board or wooden surface, but not so good on end grain. Thus if your cutting boards are going to have end grain up, you want the low angle plane (I would use a #5) for a standard size cutting board. On the other hand, if your cutting boards are going to have the lumber run lengthwise down the cutting board, the standard bench plane is better. The standard #5 will also be much better for general woodworking.

The above is a short survey of the historical uses of the planes. I use mine for many other tasks.

Finally, "sharp" cover a multitude of sins. If your Stanley Bailey #5 is frighteningly sharp, it can be used for shooting and for end grain work. It won't do as well as a bevel up plane, but it can be used. Because of that critical factor "sharpness," you will need to know about sharpening, and have some sharpening stuff.

For general woodworking, you can use a very sharp #5 for final smoothing up of an edge worked on by a power jointer to clean up chatter marks, just before glue up, etc. You can use it to fine tune doors, etc. to fit. You will use it for lots of things.

Regards,

Stew

Excellent survey.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

How about not sanding anymore? Surface after plane is much smoother than any sandpaper can ever do. Or spring gluing panels after jointer plane. Precision of hand plane is also higher, single pass can be of shavings thickness.

So, three planes is a very useful set and worth to plan for :)

[Tony Wilkins]

How about not sanding anymore? Surface after plane is much smoother than any sandpaper can ever do. Or spring gluing panels after jointer plane. Precision of hand plane is also higher, single pass can be of shavings thickness.

So, three planes is a very useful set and worth to plan for :)

That why I suggested a #4 :)

[steven c newman]

Mr. Tuttle: Planes have been mailed, was unable to cash the MO..anywhere, was shipped on MY dime. Box will arrived this Thursday's Mail. Have sent the tracking number via PM.

[Kevin Smira]

I stopped reading on page 4. I have power tools and non-power tools. I have a low angle block, low angle jack, 5 1/2 and 7...all woodriver brand. The “fettling” out of the box for WR planes for me has been nearly non-existent. A couple of burrs on the throat plate that were easily taken care of with a file. Sharpen the blades and they are ready to go. I use Shapton glass stones freehand because I don’t have anywhere to keep my water stones it and available. My Shaptons come out and within 30 seconds, I’ve got a new edge. I’m still practicing, but can be back to work in less than a minute. With my water stones, it’s 10 mins or so. Same with chisels...

[Frederick Skelly]

I stopped reading on page 4. I have power tools and non-power tools. I have a low angle block, low angle jack, 5 1/2 and 7...all woodriver brand. The “fettling” out of the box for WR planes for me has been nearly non-existent. A couple of burrs on the throat plate that were easily taken care of with a file. Sharpen the blades and they are ready to go. I use Shapton glass stones freehand because I don’t have anywhere to keep my water stones it and available. My Shaptons come out and within 30 seconds, I’ve got a new edge. I’m still practicing, but can be back to work in less than a minute. With my water stones, it’s 10 mins or so. Same with chisels...

Hi Kevin,
Similar experience here with my WRs and my Shaptons.
Fred

[steven c newman]

When I removed the Stanley #5c from the til, to ship it out to Tim....I tried to place another Stanley #5 into the empty space......would NOT fit. Seems it is a newer version, and has a thicker base to it. No trouble with the #4c.....The Low angle #56B? It's slot is too narrow for some of the other block planes....may have to be on the lookout for a couple skinny planes.....

[steven c newman]

Planes have arrived? Time to show off what was in that box? Warts, and all......

Maybe set up a length of 2 x 4 as a test track, and show what they can do?

[Frederick Skelly]

Planes have arrived? Time to show off what was in that box? Warts, and all......

Maybe set up a length of 2 x 4 as a test track, and show what they can do?

With luck, the planes arrived and you got a private thank you from Mr Tuttle. I for one would like to hear that that happened. Not trying to be nosy - it's just that the last we heard, you couldn't cash his money order for shipping in post #65. If that's where things still stand, the rest of us should know to be wary. But with luck, your kindness has been graciously acknowledged.

Fred