Veritas Shooting plane vs my lN LAJ for shooting

[Tony Wilkins]

I currently use a Lie-Nielsen low angle jack for shooting. I have some money from a relative to spend on a gift. Would a Veritas Shooting plane be enough of an upgrade to sway me to use that money on it? I have all the basic tool kit fwiw.

[Jim Koepke]

One thing to consider with a shooting plane is there are left and right handed versions. The LAJ can be used from either side. If you do mitered work, being able to change the side of attack can be an advantage.

In the write up on the shooting plane is says the effective angle of the blade, due to being skewed, against the work is 35º. With the same 25º grind on the LAJ, it is only a 2º advantage.

My reason for switching to a LAJ for shooting is an old shoulder injury. One thing discovered is the LAJ leaves a smoother surface on the end grain than a higher angle bench plane. Not sure if the shooting plane would leave much of a smoother angle.

Do you have a combination plane?

jtk

[Tony Wilkins]

One thing to consider with a shooting plane is there are left and right handed versions. The LAJ can be used from either side. If you do mitered work, being able to change the side of attack can be an advantage.

In the write up on the shooting plane is says the effective angle of the blade, due to being skewed, against the work is 35º. With the same 25º grind on the LAJ, it is only a 2º advantage.

My reason for switching to a LAJ for shooting is an old shoulder injury. One thing discovered is the LAJ leaves a smoother surface on the end grain than a higher angle bench plane. Not sure if the shooting plane would leave much of a smoother angle.

Do you have a combination plane?

jtk

i do not have a combination plane as such but I do have an LV small plow. Also, I have an LN 102 small block but no adjustable mouth block plane (have considered getting but haven't felt enough of a need yet). If I forego some camera stuff I could spend up to about $1,200 on woodworking.

[Chet R Parks]

Hi Tony,
Here's my 2 cents. I have both the LN and LV, LAJ which, like you is what I started shooting with. Then purchased the LV, Shooting plane to be used with a ramped and tracked shooting board. Shortly afterwards I added the LV, Miter plane to be used with a fast and dirty shooting board as described here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwYJhfChDdM
All 4 planes are excellent, however a plane that is designed and dedicated just for shooting is a real pleasure to use. I don't have the space for a dedicated shooting bench and the Shooting plane is large, and when used with the large ramped shooting board it takes up a lot of space. 90% of the time I reach for the Miter plane and it's snap together shooting board. I really like my hand right there by the blade pushing on the horn. You get a vary vary nice feed back when shooting. If I have a "lot" of end grain shooting or long edge shooting to do of course then I go for the Shooting plane, but to just clean up saw marks and a few light cuts to square up a board I always go for the Miter plane. The LV Miter plane is sweet. Good luck with whatever decision you make.
Chet

[Prashun Patel]

The Lv shooting plane is as easy as it gets. My 12 yr old uses it effortlessly.

It is designed to run in a track. it is more ergonomic than my la jack in this application.

The design makes it easy to keep the plane square through the push which is the key to producing a flat cut.

It is an extravagance but I suspect anyone who has one believes it has been worth the
Money.

[Doug Hepler]

It is an extravagance but I suspect anyone who has one believes it has been worth the
Money.

My sentiment exactly.

Doug

[Simon MacGowen]

[Prashun Patel; The design makes it easy to keep the plane square through the push which is the key to producing a flat cut.

It is an extravagance but I suspect anyone who has one believes it has been worth the
Money.
+1

[Patrick Chase]

[Prashun Patel; The design makes it easy to keep the plane square through the push which is the key to producing a flat cut.

It is an extravagance but I suspect anyone who has one believes it has been worth the
Money.
+1

Same sentiment here. I've never seen a job that I couldn't have done with a Jack instead, but the shooter certainly makes things easier.

The miter plane is much harder to justify IMO. I have one, and prefer it for some things (not least on a miter jack), but I can't honestly say that it adds anywhere near as much ease of use and enjoyment as the shooter for me. YMMV.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

I used to use my Veritas LAJ and now use the Veritas Shooting Plane. I would hate to have to go back to the LAJ as the Shooting plane is amazing for shooting - who would have thought! I added a side fence to my shooting board to effectively make a chute and using the shooting plane is so effortless and easy now. Using the LAJ was hard work and I found it took a toll on my hands etc if I had to do a lot whereas I could use the shooting plane all day long with no fatigue. I also get better results with the dedicated plane as there is no tendency to accidentally tip the plane etc - also the skew on the blade and the extra mass of the plane really seems to help make the cut much easier. I don't think you would regret getting the Shooting plane - but then again I am yet to regret any hand tool I have purchased!

Cheers,

Dom

[Frederick Skelly]

Hi Tony,
Here's my 2 cents. I have both the LN and LV, LAJ which, like you is what I started shooting with. Then purchased the LV, Shooting plane to be used with a ramped and tracked shooting board. Shortly afterwards I added the LV, Miter plane to be used with a fast and dirty shooting board as described here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwYJhfChDdM.
Chet

Enjoyed the video Chet. Thank you!
Fred

[Derek Cohen]

I currently use a Lie-Nielsen low angle jack for shooting. I have some money from a relative to spend on a gift. Would a Veritas Shooting plane be enough of an upgrade to sway me to use that money on it? I have all the basic tool kit fwiw.

Hi Tony

About 10 years ago I won an eBay auction (quite cheaply, I might add) for a Stanley #51/52 shooting board and plane. I've built many ramped shooting boards over the years and used then very happily with the LV LA Jack, but the Stanley was the one I wanted.

The #51 plane needed to be rebuilt (broken frog), but once done was sublime. A few years went by and replaced the Stanley #51 with a LN #51. This was Heaven. It is a fantastic plane. I just love the looks ... because it looks like the Stanley.

A couple of years ago the Veritas Shooting Plane (#51 equivalent) came for assessment. And it stayed. I love the LN, but the Veritas is just a better user. You can read my review/experience here (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/LVShootingPlane.html).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Larry Frank]

I think the LV 51 shooting plane would be ideal. I like the adjustable mouth and handle.

I use my LN 4-1/2 for shooting and works well.

[glenn bradley]

Like any specialty plane, the value to you will vary on your use of it. I used the Lee Valley LAJ for shooting and it works fine, no complaints. I did make a hot dog for it.

371051

I received the LV Shooting plane and long track as a gift and it has been a pleasure to use.

371052 . 371053

Unless you are having sub-optimal results from your current setup, I would ponder what else I could do with that money. If you have the basics covered (jointer, smoother, shoulder, block) there is nothing wrong with rewarding yourself by upping the level of a given tool that you use a lot.

[Christopher Charles]

I agonized over a similar decision one of the last free shipping events (darn you Rob Lee!). Went with the LV shooting plane and no regrets. Works great on a shooting board and pretty deft as a free-range plane too. And don't forget, good wood is always a good option.

Best,
Chris


371113

[Patrick Chase]

I think the LV 51 shooting plane would be ideal. I like the adjustable mouth and handle.

You mean the LV shooting plane right?

LN makes a 51 (LV doesn't), but it has a fixed handle and has a Bed Rock style movable frog to adjust the mouth. It's a great plane, particularly if you shoot long grain such that its cap iron becomes useful, but that's not what people shoot most of the time in my experience. The LV has the adjustable handle and absolutely excels on end grain.

[Mike Holbrook]

I am interested in Chet’s comment about using the smaller LV Miter plane 90% of the time for quick shooting. I tried the LV Miter and the larger shootingr plane at a woodworking show in Atlanta. I was considering buying the Shooting plane but did not do it because, at first blush, I liked the Miter plane better. The Miter plane has a couple other advantages from my view. First the “horn” can be attached to either side, allowing one to use it from left or right. Second it is probably used more from differing angles to the work, which “normal” fixed shooting beds can not do. It can be handy to approach the grain from the appropriate angle to keep from tearing it out. If, however, the plane, rather than the blade, can be angled to the grain one has more flexibility in approaching the grain. I guess this second supposition is only true if the piece being worked is oriented on something like the edge of a bench witih a 3-6” wide edge that can serve to slide the plane over.

I can see how those who are after very exact results prefer the larger plane and a fixed running surface, to sneak up on precise fits. Still it seems there may be a need for a plane used to work longer less consistent edges, as I suspect Chet is referring to. I probably should add that, contrary to what I originally thought would be the kind of work I would be doing, I tend to work from rough or even split wood. Getting that first straight flat edge can be difficult.

[steven c newman]

One could spend a bit, and buy a "Lion Trimmer".....part is held at any angle, blades slide by and slice off what ever sticks out. Picture framers used them all the time.

[Tony Wilkins]

Pulled the trigger on the LV shooter. As pointed out in another thread, out of stock to November 30 but I can wait.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I had been using a Veritas low angle jack, and when the shooting plane came out years back I decided to pull the trigger. I really thought I was going to regret spending that much $$$ when the low angle jack did well enough. Let me tell you- the shooter is awesome! It's partly the heft, partly the skewed blade, and partly the adjustable handle that make the difference over the low angle jack. In my humble opinion, a shooter is something that should come later in the game if you are short on $ and purchasing one tool at a time, but it is certainly nice, and it's a game changer for fitting miter joints. If you already have a good quality jack, jointer, smoother, and block plane, then go for the shooter. You won't regret it.

[Patrick Chase]

I am interested in Chet’s comment about using the smaller LV Miter plane 90% of the time for quick shooting. I tried the LV Miter and the larger shootingr plane at a woodworking show in Atlanta. I was considering buying the Shooting plane but did not do it because, at first blush, I liked the Miter plane better. The Miter plane has a couple other advantages from my view. First the “horn” can be attached to either side, allowing one to use it from left or right.

They have very different strengths. Yes, you can shoot both directions with the miter, but its cutting mechanics (what happens at the wood) are no better than any other unskewed BU plane with a 12 deg bed, so if you only use it that way you're basically paying the cost of a new plane so that you can use that horn instead of a hot-dog.


Second it is probably used more from differing angles to the work, which “normal” fixed shooting beds can not do. It can be handy to approach the grain from the appropriate angle to keep from tearing it out

This is the miter plane's real strength IMO, but it only really applies if you use it with a miter jack or freehand. This is why I have one. Even in those cases, it's (basically) a BUS with flat sides and tweaked ergonomics though.

[Chet R Parks]

Hi Mike,
Great write-up on your thoughts of the difference between the LV. SP. and the MP. A lot better than I could have done. I, in no way intended to sway the OP towards the MP but rather to point out my experience in the way I use them. At only $22 difference (with PMV11 blades) it's hard to justify the MP over the SP especially with the 20* skewed bedded blade on the SP. My shop area is only 9 ft. x 16 ft. with a 2 ft. x 4 ft. bench so space and maneuverability is at a premium. The horn for comfort and stability and the type of shooting board as described in the video I mentioned turned out to be a big deal for the way I work. As always it comes down to the individual person's level of comfort, what they do and how they work. Having tried both planes at the show you went to I'd be interested in hearing which way you go. Testing both at the same time is something few of us get to experience. Again, great write-up.
Chet

[Chet R Parks]

Tony,
Vary good choice, I wish you nothing but success. Only 21 more days plus delivery time :)
Chet

[Tony Wilkins]

I had been using a Veritas low angle jack, and when the shooting plane came out years back I decided to pull the trigger. I really thought I was going to regret spending that much $$$ when the low angle jack did well enough. Let me tell you- the shooter is awesome! It's partly the heft, partly the skewed blade, and partly the adjustable handle that make the difference over the low angle jack. In my humble opinion, a shooter is something that should come later in the game if you are short on $ and purchasing one tool at a time, but it is certainly nice, and it's a game changer for fitting miter joints. If you already have a good quality jack, jointer, smoother, and block plane, then go for the shooter. You won't regret it.

the ergonomics and the skew were main points in my decision to go ahead. With my disability, any thing that makes woodworking easier makes it more possible for me to actually accomplish something.

[Tony Wilkins]

Tony,
Vary good choice, I wish you nothing but success. Only 21 more days plus delivery time :)
Chet

Thanks. As slow as I work it won't be too much of a problem.

also, Malcom, only thing I almost added was a custom Jack as my LN LAJ is my only #5 size plane. Then I decided to get some camera gear instead.

[Jim Koepke]

the ergonomics and the skew were main points in my decision to go ahead. With my disability, any thing that makes woodworking easier makes it more possible for me to actually accomplish something.

The part about a disability being part of the consideration must have slipped by me if it was mentioned.

My first post in this thread mentioned my reason for purchasing a low angle jack:


My reason for switching to a LAJ for shooting is an old shoulder injury.

If the LV shooting plane was available at the time it might have been my choice. As it is, the left hand shooting plane may get my wallet opened.

jtk

[John Schtrumpf]

I am interested in Chet’s comment about using the smaller LV Miter plane 90% of the time for quick shooting...
I didn't expand on Chet's comment earlier, because the OP has a bevel up jack, and I don't think the miter plane would be as much of an upgrade from that.

I have both the Veritas Shooting plane and the Miter plane, but I don't have a Low Angle Jack (although I have used my Jack Rabbit with an added wooden face). As others have stated, it really depends on how you work. I mainly use the Miter plane because I have a bench hook / shooting board that I also use as my main working surface. I occasionally clamp a board in the chute (gutter) as an added fence when I am working, which doesn't work well with a track. The Shooting plane is clumsier to use on a shooting board that doesn't have a track, than the Miter plane, so I use my Miter plane. The Miter plane is also a little easier to use if you want to finesse when shooting. I can also add that the Miter plane is an upgrade from a Small Bevel Up Smoother for shooting.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for your thoughts guys. Pat, my experience with the two planes may relate to the relatively small benchhook/shooting board, LV had available to try the two planes out on. I am interested in a tool that works well without a fixed track. I own a LV BUS but not the smaller flat sided BU plane. I believe most hotdogs are made to be used either right or left handed. The handle on the Miter Plane seems to me to fit well whichever way it is used. At the moment my right hand is “sprained”....

I decided not to second guess my experience trying the two planes out. I ordered the Miter Plane, just under the LV free shipping wire. As Chet mentions above, my decision is based on my unique needs, as others should be as well. I also added an E C Emmerich Scrub plane to my order, as I have read good things about it on SMC. I tend to work very rough or split logs that a “real” scrub may help with. I may even leave the plane, inshave, drawknife, axe & adze marks in some of my work. I am interested in surfaces with more texture.

[Bill McNiel]

. I also added an E C Emmerich Scrub plane to my order, as I have read good things about it on SMC. I tend to work very rough or split logs that a “real” scrub may help with. I may even leave the plane, inshave, drawknife, axe & adze marks in some of my work. I am interested in surfaces with more texture.

Mike,
FWIW - I have been using the ECE Scrub for over 40 years and love it for both initial flattening and texture.

[Mike Holbrook]

John good thoughts regarding where the Miter Plane shines.

Good to know yours ECE is going strong after 40 years Bill. No worries regarding the wood wearing out vs a metal scrub.y

[Patrick Chase]

John good thoughts regarding where the Miter Plane shines.

Good to know yours is going strong after 40 years Bill. No worries regarding the wood wearing out vs a metal scrub.

One thing that I really like about the miter plane is the "T-shaped" iron, similar to but smaller than the one in the Jack Rabbet. The result is that you can grip with your fingers along nearly the full interior depth of the sidewall, which IMO is an ergonomic improvement over its Scottish antecedents. I didn't intend to come across as negative about the plane in my previous post as I like mine a lot. I think that it's somewhat specialized relative to most peoples' needs, but it appears that it meets your needs nicely and that's all that matters.

The ECE is a terrific scrub. If I'd known then what I know now I would have chosen it over the LV Scrub. The latter is a perfectly fine 40-1/2 style scrub, but I've come to prefer wood-bodied planes for roughing. As noted in another thread the ECE is a boxwood sole and is pretty bombproof as a result.

[Mike Holbrook]

Patrick, I am in N GA today. I have been working on making a split red oak log into a more or less rectangular shape using mostly an adze. I plan to make a: bench, sawhorse, Roman Workbench kinda thing. Now that it is in a rough shape I guess I will try planes & drawknives. It would be nice to have the two planes mentioned above. Thanks for your thoughts regarding those two planes. I would post pictures but I only have an iPad with me. So far I only have an hour or two of time invested. I have been pleasantly surprised at how much I can do with just the heavy adze. Two discoveries so far, I need larger clamps/vises. Rubber horse floor mats have limitations.

Yes, I am testing the limits of Neanderthaling.