Indoor Clear Finish on Cherry

[Bill Adamsen]

Searched back through a lot of threads on finishing cherry and trying to get/keep the ambered color. I have an interior of a cabinet (doored) that appears to have no finish on it - about 80 square feet of surface.

Many of the threads recommend the thinnest coat of dewaxed shellac (sprayed) possible followed by a sprayed topcoat of water-borne poly. I'd like to get an ambered finish that's reasonably durable. Given any option available, I'd probably spray with GF Endurovar. But spraying is not an option in this case. Is there a brush on shellac followed by a brush on water-borne poly/varnish that has worked well for you folks?

[Prashun Patel]

Are you averse to using oil-based varnish? Arm R Seal or Waterlox OSF do well on cherry.

[Bill Adamsen]

That would be my preference but I'm concerned about the VOC odors indoors also the dry time. I just went out to the shop and tested shellac and of course the color (and dry time, odor) are perfect ... it is what I topcoat that has me wound around the axel. I like the way oil-based poly applies and the coloring (especially on cherry) but have not found a waterborne (except spraying) that I like. I just looked at the instructions on Endurovar (https://generalfinishes.com/professional-products/water-based-topcoats-and-sanding-sealers/enduro-var#.Wf3EuRNSzUI) and it indicates you can brush or roll. I'm going to do a test and see if I can live with the finish I get from roll and tip off. It also says no sealer is required (self sealing), but JTE has been encouraging using a shellac as a sealer on almost everything ... I'm wondering it there is a compatibility issue. Guess I'll find out.

[Bennett Ostroff]

There won't be a compatibility issue with shellac and WB poly. I've had mostly terrible experiences with brushing or rolling WB poly on big surfaces. If it's a large vertical surface I wouldn't even attempt it. Shellac on its own will probably do the job just fine. Otherwise I'd use a wiping varnish like wipe-on poly and open some windows for a few hours and you should be fine. Minwax does make a water-based wipe-on poly but I've never tried it.

[Bill Adamsen]

Here is a set of test strips. Probably will do the shellac with 2-3 coats Endurovar over it applied with foam brush.

[John TenEyck]

Bill, I've had really good results applying EnduroVar with a foam brush, but I've never done a wide surface that way. However, if you can work from one end to the other in maybe 12" wide strips I think you'll be able to maintain a wet edge and it will dry OK. A pad painter or the lambs wool applicators used to apply floor finish might be a good option, too. They would allow you to work a lot faster.

John

[Edwin Santos]

If it were me, I'd simply pad on dewaxed shellac, one or two coats and call it good. If you want more amber, you could use dewaxed orange, or you could tint SealCoat with some Transtint honey amber dye. I'm not sure why you might need a high durability finish on the inside of a cabinet where you would need to topcoat the shellac with something tougher. Is this a cabinet where the inside would see abuse?

[Jim Becker]

There's always oil for "amber", de-waxed shellac as a barrier coat (or even top coat) and the clear water borne finish of your choice. The shellac will seal the odor in. You could also use a darker, de-waxed shellac by itself or overcoat with water borne clear, too.

[Bill Adamsen]

I did the shellac with a regular bristle brush today ... that worked ok, but made me realize how spoiled I am with spraying. Not relishing doing that large a surface with the Endurovar using any sort of thing other than spraying. Uhggg!

[Lee Schierer]

This cherry entertainment center was finished with Watco Danish oil finish.
270281
The color has darkened over time to a rich amber color. What I don't like about most oil based poly finishes is that they yellow over time. The water based poly doesn't seem to do that nearly as much, but it is harder to get a good finish.

[Jim Becker]

I did the shellac with a regular bristle brush today ... that worked ok, but made me realize how spoiled I am with spraying. Not relishing doing that large a surface with the Endurovar using any sort of thing other than spraying. Uhggg!
Brushing shellac is an "art-form" and is completely different than working with a slow-drying finish like an oil based varnish or even a water based/borne product that permits brushing. It takes a lot of practice!!!

[Nelson Howe]

It seems many have poo pood this, but I think the endurovar instructions call for applying only over raw wood, i.e. no shellac.

Nelson

[John TenEyck]

It seems many have poo pood this, but I think the endurovar instructions call for applying only over raw wood, i.e. no shellac.

Nelson


I'm one who has and continues to poo poo that statement by GF. You shouldn't put it or any WB product over waxy shellac, but there is no evidence of problems with EnduroVar or any other topcoat over dewaxed shellac. GF says you can put EnduroVar over OB stains. If it can adhere OK to those products it will have no problem sticking to dewaxed shellac. I've been using it for at least 6 years over Sealcoat shellac with no problems. On the Sealcoat can it says "safe under all finishes". So far that has proven true for me.

John

[Lee Schierer]

Just to clarify, I went to the Enduro-Var site (https://generalfinishes.com/professional-products/water-based-topcoats-and-sanding-sealers/enduro-var#.Wf99j4hrzIU) and looked at the application instructions. Here is some pertinent information from their site: " Enduro-Var ADHERES WELL only over WATER STAINS, DYE STAINS, and RAW WOOD. Use Enduro-Var over any other surfaces at your own risk. It will adhere over an oil stain ONLY IF the stain is completely dry (minimum 4 days drying)."

I don't think I would apply it over shellac on any expensive project after reading that warning.

[John TenEyck]

Just to clarify, I went to the Enduro-Var site (https://generalfinishes.com/professional-products/water-based-topcoats-and-sanding-sealers/enduro-var#.Wf99j4hrzIU) and looked at the application instructions. Here is some pertinent information from their site: " Enduro-Var ADHERES WELL only over WATER STAINS, DYE STAINS, and RAW WOOD. Use Enduro-Var over any other surfaces at your own risk. It will adhere over an oil stain ONLY IF the stain is completely dry (minimum 4 days drying)."

I don't think I would apply it over shellac on any expensive project after reading that warning.



Lee, GF used to say it was OK to put it over shellac. The product hasn't changed AFAIK, only their recommendations. My guess is GF might have said it was OK over dewaxed shellac, but customers didn't know some shellac (only one at the BORG, actually) is dewaxed and others are not, and then complained when problems occurred so GF just changed their recommendation. I can understand that. But I can tell you EnduroVar works just fine over Sealcoat shellac. I don't say that lightly. I've tested it for physical adhesion using the common tape test, as well as 6+ years experience.

John

[Bill Adamsen]

It seems many have poo pood this, but I think the endurovar instructions call for applying only over raw wood, i.e. no shellac.

Nelson

Actually, inn the FAQ of the instructions (see link in #3 above) it says ...

Can I use shellac under the Enduro-Var? No, if you need to lock in dye, use only one light coat, dewaxed, 1# cut, and sand before applying for adherence.

[Bill Adamsen]

Saw the Sealcoat label in the shop this morning. For the project, since it is the inside of a doored and drawered utility closet, I may just use the Sealcoat and stop there.

[Jim Becker]

The Sealcoat is actually a good product for this purpose. It will be glossy, but that's not generally an issue on the inside of a piece that is only viewed when one is loading or unloading something from a drawer or cabinet. It's also a relatively good moisture barrier and really easy to maintain if it gets dinged.