Lumber pricing and options

[Monte Milanuk]

So... one of my projects on the horizon is going to be a Nicholson style work bench. I've been digging through the local big box stores piles looking for some decent boards - I gotta say, those people who say they literally go thru the entire pile to get a half-dozen boards worth using, my hats off to ya. I'm not little, but digging even a little ways through a stack of long 2x10s or 2x12s by myself is a workout.

I got the bright idea to ask (email) the local hardwood / lumber supplier for pricing on some clear 8/4 SYP or DF, min 12" wide, 7' long, about 60 BF worth. Had to ping them again after a month to get a response... now I'm not sure if they are high-balling the price so I'll just go away and not bother them, or if these prices are actually reasonable.

The first option they provided was Doug Fir 'VG' 2x12s, @ 1-3/4 x 11-1/4 S4S... for $25 / linear foot. Looking at this table here (https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/linearfeettoboardfeet.aspx) and converting (roughly) the board feet I asked for (4-5 pieces at the dimensions mentioned above) to linear feet... then multiplying by their price... I come up with $875 (!!!!) for ~5 boards 7 feet long, before taxes. Yeowza. I think that works out to $10-11 per board foot, for Doug Fir, 'very good'...

Second option they suggested was they have a laminated beech slab, 26" wide by 1-1/2" thick by 14 feet long, for $450. I'd have to have them cut it at least in half (7' pieces), and probably in half again length-wise on each of those halves, and end up with four pieces 13" wide by 7' long by 1.5" thick. Just not sure how the laminated aprons would look...

Anywho, are those lumber prices normal? Granted I haven't seen the 'very good' boards, but I have a hard time swallowing $950 (including tax) for 5 boards of Doug Fir.

Maybe I'll just have to go back to box store 2x lumber... :(

[peter Joseph]

Id keep looking and checking craigslist regularly. I built my roubo from hand hewn oak logs someone was nearly giving away. Also consider Ash as a good alternative.

[Randy Viellenave]

If you have the tooling to convert it from rough to S4S, consider that. I get Sapele rough for $5.83/bf, and S1S is $7.83... So surfacing one edge is $2/bf. I never asked for the price of S4S, I would probably drop dead.

[Jaze Derr]

Doesn't the VG with doug fir stand for Vertical Grain?

[Monte Milanuk]

Id keep looking and checking craigslist regularly. I built my roubo from hand hewn oak logs someone was nearly giving away. Also consider Ash as a good alternative.

Well... that is kind of the problem... might be why they charge what they do? Over on the 'we(s)t' side of Washington, there are trees *everywhere*. They don't call it the 'evergreen' state for nothing. CL is literally littered with old lumber, rough cut slabs, custom and portable saw mills, etc. etc. etc. This side of the mountains... not so much. More sagebrush and trees that are more useful as a wind break than for lumber ;) Further inland (towards Idaho) there appears to be more options again.

So adjusting the prices I see on CL for having to rent a trailer and drive 6+ hrs round trip, possible over a mountain pass (or two) - i.e. sucky mpg... and I'm kinda back to the $$$$ pricing again. Not saying it wouldn't be worth it for the right 'big' purchase; just not sure this qualifies.

It looks like a little bit does pop up around here locally; will just have to watch it like a hawk or set up a search notifier to ping me when something comes available.

[Monte Milanuk]

Doesn't the VG with doug fir stand for Vertical Grain?

It may. I asked for FAS/F1F/Select (their terms), 'vg' was what they described it as.

[Monte Milanuk]

If you have the tooling to convert it from rough to S4S, consider that. I get Sapele rough for $5.83/bf, and S1S is $7.83... So surfacing one edge is $2/bf. I never asked for the price of S4S, I would probably drop dead.

Good point... I do have a very much under-utilized 6" jointer plus a DW 735 planer, along with TS, BS, etc. I've just never really dealt with anything other than either box store S4S or a very little bit of S3S. It might be very much worth it to find out how much I'm getting dinged for the S4S treatment. Silly question... on S1S is that one edge, or one *face*? While I have a number of handplanes around here that I'm getting more familiar with (hence the desire for a 'real' woodworking work bench) I'm not sure I'm up to dimensioning *all* the lumber myself from rough stock by hand just yet. But if I can buy it already flat on one side, joint one edge, straight-line rip the other... I should be able to flatten the remaining side either on the jointer & planer (for the narrower stock like legs and frame) or by hand if necessary on the wider pieces (the bench top and aprons).

[Bradley Gray]

There is likely an independent lumber yard in your town with better dimensional lumber than the big box at a better price with better service.

[Monte Milanuk]

There is likely an independent lumber yard in your town with better dimensional lumber than the big box at a better price with better service.

This *IS* the independent lumber yard that I'm talking about.

[glenn bradley]

Doesn't the VG with doug fir stand for Vertical Grain?

Correct. Vertical Grain or "straight grain" Doug Fir is sold at a premium here. Comparing the price to BORG construction lumber doesn't work. My attempt at construction grade workbenches have all gone the way of the Dodo Bird. Even kiln dried and acclimated for months the material still moved enough to warrant a new bench.

I actually saved money on the material buying poplar at a decent lumber yard. Around here it is under $3 a board foot, stable and mills well. Spend the money you save on some nice material for the top and your vise chops. Here's a poplar base on my current bench.

370825

[John TenEyck]

I just paid $11/BF for VG Douglas fir. There is an import duty of about 3X on it now that Washington and Ottawa can't seem to play nice anymore.

I made my Euro bench mostly from pallet lumber. There used to be a pallet maker about 1/2 mile from my house. They also carried lumber. I was there buying some lumber and saw these big pallets of 4 x 6 and 6 x 6 x 8' long mostly cherry beams. I asked what they were and the manager said they were green lumber for making their pallets. Really? Cherry? Some of them looked to be knot free. I asked what they would cost and he said $5 a piece. I bought 8 or 10 of them and stickered them outside for 2 years, then brought them inside for another year. All of the base of my bench was made from them as well as the ends of the top. The main surface for the top came from an old edge glued maple lab bench. The point is - get creative.

If long range planing isn't appealing then find a commercial millwork shop. They will be able to get nearly any lumber you want a lot cheaper than you can buy it and can make it S4S if that's what you want. That won't be as cheap as foraging, but it will be way better than BORG lumber.

FWIW, I buy most of the lumber I don't mill from a local millwork shop. 8/4 Sapele is $5.5/BF, hard maple about $3.5, poplar and ash about $2.5. I can live with those prices, it's far easier than the hit or miss of Craigslist, and I get to sort through the stacks and pick only what I want. It took awhile to develop that relationship but has been well worth it.

John

[Jim Becker]

I just priced 8/4 D-fir VG from a local supplier for a kitchen island and shelving project I'm taking on and the estimate is about $7.60 bd-ft. I'm considering buying d-fir beam material from another local supplier and re-sawing it myself as an alternative...waiting on pricing.

[Julie Moriarty]

Have you checkedhttp://www.woodfinder.com/ to see if there are other wood stores in your area?

I remember when I was thinking about building a workbench and priced out hard maple at the local hardwood store. Yikes! I ended up buying a bench Highland Woodworking had on sale and made drawers for it. The price for the bench was about the same as what the wood and hardware would have cost.

[Jamie Buxton]

Yeah, vertical grain doug fir comes from old-growth trees in Canada. Nature is not making old-growth trees at a fast rate, so the lumber price is rising.

Consider hardwood for your bench. In my area, red oak is about half the price of VG doug fir. Maple is a little more than oak, but still much less expensive than VG DF. Poplar is even less than oak. And these prices are for kiln dry material, so the bench should be pretty stable.

[Chad Pearson]

Any chance you could just make the workbench out of a couple of pre-glued birch counter tops from Ikea? They are having a shipping sale through November 3rd. When I was looking for a simple bench top it was considerably cheaper to buy their top and adapt it into a bench than to buy the lumber and glue it up myself.

[Bill McNiel]

Monte,
I haven't checked recently and my memory for such things sucks but I believe VG fir is available for about $11 - $12 BF at both Crosscut and Compton in Seattle. Give Crosscut a call (ask for CJ) and get some pricing from them, I also get a discount there. I have a friend, with a truck, who travels weekly to Central Wash and would have no problem transporting for you. BTW-maple is about $8-$9 BF.

PM me if you want more info - Bill

[Monte Milanuk]

Thanks for the responses, folks.

Interesting to see people other places are around $10-12 / board foot also, which is about what this worked out to (they are only selling per linear foot, but the conversion table linked in the original post is what I'm using for a ball park number).

I asked about what the price difference for rough cut / S1S would be vs S4S... $24 per lf, vs. $25. No real savings there. For those that suggested a commercial millwork shop... they also fill that niche around here as well. Not the only one, though.

As for woodfinder.com... yep, it pretty much confirms what I said earlier... I'm in the middle of no-where, wood-wise. The distances it cites are deceptive, BTW. Straight-line as-the-crow-flies is nowhere near the same as actual driving distance. Yes, technically I'm only 80-90 miles out of Seattle... but that leaves out a couple mountain passes and a whole lot of twists n turns. The linear distance to Spokane is more accurate, but still falls shy of reality. Interesting that the local supplier (Lombard's Hardwood Supply) isn't even listed.

Still mulling over the monster laminated birch slab (countertop?) cut into appropriate sized pieces - it would be almost exactly the right size, with about three cuts. Just not sure if the sides (aprons) would look decent with laminated wood?

At this point, I think the clear / VG Doug Fir is out. Too spendy @ $25/lf. Seems somewhat ironic that softwood is more expensive than hardwood. I understand why, given the explanations above about sources, politics, etc. (thanks, BTW) but it still seems weird.

I hate going back, hat in hand (via email, but still) saying "Uh... what do you have that is still good, but *cheaper*?" I can only imagine the frustration on their end :/

[Chad Pearson]

FYI the Ikea benchtops I have are not laminated slabs (assuming you meant laminated like in an extra thick piece of plywood). They are long grain strips of birch glued together that are each 1 1/8 inches thick.

[Monte Milanuk]

Yes, that's what I understood as well. The nearest IKEA is at least as far away as most of those lumber stores, though, and 1-1/8 is getting thinner than I care for.

[John TenEyck]

Monty, don't feel embarrassed to ask more questions or for cheaper alternatives. Any company worth doing business with will try their best to meet your needs.

John

[Ira Matheny]

You may want to try Bill Betts, Rochester WA [just south of Olympia] He has a band saw mill and a good inventory of air dried and green lumber. Soft and hardwood. Many varieties. He has an add on Craiglist.

[David Helm]

Being in Wenatchee you are not that far from Bellingham. I would make a trip to Grizzly and get their workbench tops. As an alternative (yes CVG Doug Fir does run about $12 per board foot) go to your local real lumber yard and go through the Doug Fir construction lumber (2 and better). I would make sure the wood is Doug Fir and not "hem-fir" which is mostly Western Hemlock. Also steer clear of Spruce construction lumber.