Commodity grade Japanese chisels.

[bridger berdel]

Woodcraft has some cheap chisels for sale in their latest sale flier. I can't seem to direct link into their web page, but the item number is 161018. On sale the price is $130. The ad copy is the usual boilerplate:



These professional-grade chisels are made by Fugikawa and feature a thin layer of white steel laminated to a softer steel main body. Handles are Japanese Red Oak topped with a black steel hoop. This six-piece set includes sizes 6mm, 9mm, 12mm, 18mm, 24mm and 30mm width and 225mm length. Chisels are supplied in a wood box.




I have plenty of chisels. I don't "need" these or any other new chisels. That said I have a bit of idle curiosity about Japanese chisels. I'm a bottom feeder... I prefer to buy such things second hand, barter for them, anything but full retail for any item not currently mission critical. "On sale" often doesn't mean much, price wide.

So for those of you familiar enough with Japanese chisels to have a clue, is this a screaming good deal, an ok price for some ok chisels or Scammy marketing for some completely crap tourist grade junk?

And otherwise, anyone here have a few decent Japanese chisels you'd be interested to barter for?

[Rick Malakoff]

Bridger, try this link...But not on sale here???

https://www.japanwoodworker.com/products/fugikawa-chisel-set-6pc

[ken hatch]

Bridger,

Come by, I expect I have what you are looking for.

ken

[Frederick Skelly]

Just musing here .... Man, I'd like to try Japanese chisels, but learning to tap out the backs just scares the bejesus out of me. If I understand it right, you only need to do it occasionally. But fouling that up looks like a great way to wreck a nice tool. So maybe I ought to buy a set of commodity chisels like these and learn. Dunno. :confused:

Fred

[Frederick Skelly]

Bridger, try this link...But not on sale here???

https://www.japanwoodworker.com/products/fugikawa-chisel-set-6pc

I think those are the same ones Woodcraft is selling, and at the same price. It's good to know there's another reputable vendor carrying them - thanks Rick!

[John Schtrumpf]

I think those are the same ones Woodcraft is selling, and at the same price. It's good to know there's another reputable vendor carrying them - thanks Rick!
Woodcraft owns Japan Woodworker, and there is an overlap in their inventories.

[Frederick Skelly]

Woodcraft owns Japan Woodworker, and there is an overlap in their inventories.

DOH! Didn't remember that.

[Andrew Hughes]

You can use them just like any other Chisel Fred. I've not tapped out any of the Japaneese chisels I own.Still plenty of steel for to use all the way to the grave.;)

[John Burrows]

Hey Fred,
Chisels are rarely tapped out. That operation is reserved for plane blades which are held in a plane body. Chisels are sharpened the same way as western chisels except that hollow grinding is frowned upon.

John

[Robert Hazelwood]

They don't seem to be tourist grade, but they are probably the lowest 'economy' line of user tools by that maker. They are white steel #2, which is a very good steel in my experience. Easy to sharpen (I manage it with oil stones) yet holds a very keen edge longer than anything else I have. With luck, the low cost will show up in fit and finish and not in the steel quality, and this seems to be the case usually. So be prepared to do a decent amount of prep work- flattening the backs, and creating an appropriate bevel angle, etc. There is no tapping out to consider on chisels, except perhaps on very wide ones if the edge has been sharpened back into the hollow.

Woodcraft's sale price is pretty good, but Tools from Japan also sells them (or something very similar, from the same maker) in the same ballpark. So not a mind-blowingly good once-in-a-lifetime deal, but not bad.

I'd suggest buying one or two instead of the set. Get a size that you do a lot of chopping with, and see how you like it. Aside from the steel, japanese chisels have a different feel in use. You may like it, or not. If you do, then you can decide if you want to go upscale on your future purchases.

[Mike Henderson]

If you want to try Japanese chisels, those look like a good set to try. Years ago, I bought an "average" set of Japanese chisels and was satisfied with the steel. I didn't like the handles and re-handled them but the steel was fine. I grind them to a 25 degree primary bevel on a WorkSharp and then put a micro bevel at about 30 to 35 degrees on them. Basically, I treat them pretty much the same way I treat my western chisels.

The hard steel holds an edge well.

Mike

[Matt Lau]

It's probably the old Japan Woodworker's "house brand" white steel chisels.
Those were the very first good chisels that I'd ever gotten, and served me well.

My feeling is that Woodcraft occasionally gets rid of their superior old stock stuff to pick up more Chinese tools (probably more profit).
Sometimes, you can score a pretty good deal.

Of course, nowadays, I'd more likely buy from Stu or Stan.
Stu has great taste in steel, and relationships with smiths to get great tools relatively inexpensively.
Stan has superlative taste in steel, and can get you stuff you won't outgrow ever.

--edit--

Those are not the old Japan Woodworker chisels to my knowledge (maybe they just stuck a new sticker on them?).
I can't tell from the pictures if they're good or not.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable can chime in?

As for getting good cheap chisels, you may want to try a few of Stu's "user grade" chisels.

[andy bessette]

...I have plenty of chisels. I don't "need" these or any other new chisels...

You don't need to buy an entire set of chisels you don't need, just to try them. But I really like my Japanese chisels.

[Patrick Chase]

You don't need to buy an entire set of chisels you don't need, just to try them. But I really like my Japanese chisels.

What if you really "need" to try an entire set of new chisels? :-)

Seriously, the principal difference between this thread and the Aldi one[s] seems to be the price tag on the "irresistible bargain".

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks for the inputs guys!
Fred

[bridger berdel]

Thanks Ken. I put a little time into them and have the backs pretty much flattened ( they needed some serious work). A bit of time on a polishing stone and I'll be ready to work on the bevels. That Steel is indeed hard.




Bridger,

Come by, I expect I have what you are looking for.

ken

[ken hatch]

Thanks Ken. I put a little time into them and have the backs pretty much flattened ( they needed some serious work). A bit of time on a polishing stone and I'll be ready to work on the bevels. That Steel is indeed hard.

Bridger,

Good to hear, yeah IIRC I was trying to figure out a way to machine flatten backs and because they were cheap they were the ones used. Anyway good to hear they are working out for you.

ken

[Matt Lau]

Oh, FWIW, I'd recommend that you find your favorite sized chisel, and buy the best one you can justify in that size.
I used to be a bottom feeder, until I started trying Stan's recommendations....what a difference!
You may also want to check in with Stan too. While he has great taste and some of the tools are pretty spendy, he also knows a few "bang for the buck" smiths that make a good, honest, not fancy chisel. The ones that he got me are dermatome sharp, stay sharp, and are a pleasure to use...no mokume, not a hollywood famous smith, but a very well made chisel.
If you want to keep checking ebay, you might want to follow kanomiya (iida tools). He has good stuff and is honest in his dealings.

[bridger berdel]

I got the backs done today. Some interesting things:
I needed to remove quite a bit of metal. A little work with the hand crank grinder, a lot of work with the dmt extra coarse then up through the grits in diamond to 3000, completely removing the previous scratch pattern. From there I played a bit with natural stones, arks and coticules but not too effective with that hard Steel. Sooo..... break out the synthetic waterstones. I'm not a big Fan, but with careful discipline about grit contamination I went through the Norton progression from 4000 to 12000. At 12000 the dmt extra coarse pattern showed back up. It had been gone from the time I went to 600 diamond. Fortunately I was able to polish it out at 12000 though it took a little extra time on the stones. I guess coarse diamond scratches propagate down below the surface of the steel or something. Interesting.

Bevels are next. Is there a consensus regarding optimum angles for flat bevel laminated Japanese chisels for use in North American domestic hardwoods?