2 Trotecs off of 1 computer?

[Mark Langston]

I recently just purchased a used Speedy 400 120 watt to go along with my Speedy 400 80 watt and was wondering if you can run both lasers off of one computer?

[Scott Shepherd]

I don't think I've seen but one person doing that, and I'm not sure how he ever figured out how to do it, since it's not something I've ever seen done, since the computer is running the laser.

[Trey Tull]

Could you do it with virtual machines?

[Bruce Volden]

When I had my LMI's I used 1 computer to run them both. That was back when one had a parallel port and the other was serial. 'Course I was also running Win 3.1.
Got my TT running off ethernet.

Bruce

[Andrew Holloway]

Did you check with Trotec? May be possible if you can install 2 different versions of Job Control, but I don't think you are meant to be able to even do that.

Why don't you want to use 2 separate computers?

[Kev Williams]

What's the connection, USB, ethernet? Can the software be loaded twice? Can the software be copied to, and loaded from, 2 different folders?

I found out not long ago while poking around in my new (to me) computer, that I can choose which of the 8 processors I want to dedicate to certain programs. Each USB port has its own COM port number, and a second ethernet card could be configured separately--

Just thinking out loud, but running 2 programs thru 2 different procs, each configured to a unique USB port or ethernet card might be do-able?

[Brian Lamb]

Maybe I don't understand the issue... but couldn't you just load the printer driver twice and call one Laser 1 and the other Laser 2? Set up the Laser 1 to print out of the one USB port, the second out of another? Then you wouldn't even need two copies of Corel open, just print right from Corel using whichever printer you wanted to. At least that's how I think I could/would do it with my ULS if I had two machines.

[Mark Langston]

That's a good question.

[Mark Langston]

The problem is that Trotec has their own printer queue software called JobControl. All print jobs to the laser go to this software, which apparently can only run 1 laser and not 2 from it.

[Brian Lamb]

OK, so you are not using the print command from your OS, like windows 10 or whatever? You do a job in Corel, then have to load the file (.cdr?) into Job control and then print the file out of it? Seems kind of bass ackwards and extra steps to me, but I've only ever experienced the printer drivers from ULS, not sure if that's good or bad, but I find them easy to use.

[Brian Lamb]

Another thought.... years ago, 1979 to be exact, we acquired a bunch of CNC machines in the machine shop. At the time you either made paper tapes and carried them out to the machine in the shop and fed them into the tape reader, or you set up RS232 communication to each machine and had a tape punch/reader machine in the office. It was better than the guy in the shop getting oil on the paper tape and then having it go wacky in the machine.

Due to about 5 machines being fed by the one punch, we had a switch box that was ABCDE type of thing, you chose which machine you wanted the code to go to and it sent it correctly. Now if the Trotec machines don't run from loaded memory (like my ULS) then this won't work. But if you load a job into the machine and then can run it without the computer hooked up, then you might be able to set up multiple USB or parallel ports driving each machine of the same computer. Seems kind of archaic in today's day and age that you can't run a whole shop off one computer.

[Gary Hair]

OK, so you are not using the print command from your OS, like windows 10 or whatever? You do a job in Corel, then have to load the file (.cdr?) into Job control and then print the file out of it? Seems kind of bass ackwards and extra steps to me, but I've only ever experienced the printer drivers from ULS, not sure if that's good or bad, but I find them easy to use.

Not exactly how it works. You print the job from Corel using the Trotec print driver. You select the parameters you want for that job and send it to Job Control. Think of Job Control as the “Print Manager” from Windows, it holds the jobs that are going to the laser. The difference is that you can select which job goes when as well as changing any parameters you want to change (even on the fly while its running), and you can also place several jobs onto the virtual laser bed (the “plate” to Job Control). You can set it up to AutoPrint and bypass manually placing jobs in JCX, but for me those jobs are pretty rare, I use the power of JCX all the time.

[Kev Williams]

It sounds like Job Control basically acts as a print spooler. And since there's a Trotec print driver, then Windows should consider the machine-or Job Control- a printer... If this is true, then a second print driver should be able to be installed, named differently (if needed) and configured to use a different port for a second machine.

---should be... ;)

[Gary Hair]

It sounds like Job Control basically acts as a print spooler. And since there's a Trotec print driver, then Windows should consider the machine-or Job Control- a printer... If this is true, then a second print driver should be able to be installed, named differently (if needed) and configured to use a different port for a second machine.

---should be... ;)

Still not quite how it works Kev, or how it could work. In Corel, you print to the Trotec and then it goes to Job Control. Having two Trotec printers would do no good because they would both go to Job Control. What is needed is two printers *and* two Job Control, or a way in Job Control to direct the job to a particular laser. Failing this, it’s really easy to have multiple computers setup with Job Control and use a simple KVM switch to run them.

[Curt Harms]

Could you do it with virtual machines?

That was my thought.

[Mark Langston]

These models I have from Trotec can't store jobs into internal memory. Data has to be streamed. I had an Epilog once that had onboard internal memory for holding jobs and that was nice.

[Brian Lamb]

Well, then Newegg has refurbished computers all day long for under $200. Buy enough for however many machines you need and set them all up.

[Kev Williams]

Virtual machine would likely work EXCEPT for the fact they have to share output resources- so while you could connect 2 lasers, you still can only run one at a time.

Quite honestly, I don't know why Trotec doesn't allow for one computer to run multiple instances of JC to run multiple machines, AND the ability to run multiple machines from ONE instance of JC. This 1-computer-1-machine take-it-or-leave-it method just says 'hobby machine' to me, and exactly the opposite of what's necessary for high-volume work. Don't want to sound like I'm bashing, but the fact we're having this discussion tells me JC needs an upgrade ;)

[Gary Hair]

Virtual machine would likely work EXCEPT for the fact they have to share output resources- so while you could connect 2 lasers, you still can only run one at a time.

Quite honestly, I don't know why Trotec doesn't allow for one computer to run multiple instances of JC to run multiple machines, AND the ability to run multiple machines from ONE instance of JC. This 1-computer-1-machine take-it-or-leave-it method just says 'hobby machine' to me, and exactly the opposite of what's necessary for high-volume work. Don't want to sound like I'm bashing, but the fact we're having this discussion tells me JC needs an upgrade ;)

One machine running multiple instances of JC could be possible, multiple machines in one instance of JC wouldn’t be possible or practical. Why? JC is actively controlling the machine, quite a bit more than just being a print spooler. It’s not like the job shows up and you select the machine and that’s the end of it - you can change power and speed while the job is running, pause, restart, change focus, etc., all from within JC. If you had multiple machines in that one instance of JC, you would have to have a way to distinguish one machine from the other and that could get ugly if you inadvertently picked the wrong one to change. Even multiple instances of JC would have potential problems, but I think they wouldn’t be as bad vs multiple lasers in one JC.

If the people in this thread actually had a Trotec and were using JC, they would understand how easy it really is to use and how powerful it is compared to pretty much anything else available. Until then, sorry, but you just don’t get how it works!

[Mike Null]

After 11 years with Trotec and JC I think Gary has said it about as well as it can be said.


If the people in this thread actually had a Trotec and were using JC, they would understand how easy it really is to use and how powerful it is compared to pretty much anything else available. Until then, sorry, but you just don’t get how it works!

[Scott Shepherd]

Quite honestly, I don't know why Trotec doesn't allow for one computer to run multiple instances of JC to run multiple machines, AND the ability to run multiple machines from ONE instance of JC. This 1-computer-1-machine take-it-or-leave-it method just says 'hobby machine' to me, and exactly the opposite of what's necessary for high-volume work. Don't want to sound like I'm bashing, but the fact we're having this discussion tells me JC needs an upgrade ;)

Right, and this is coming from the same guy who said modern lasers were a waste of money, then bought a GCC and said how amazing it is? I agree with Gary and Mike. If you, for one split second, think a Trotec isn't a machine made for production then you truly don't understand it's power. We can do things you can't even dream about on your machines. And just for the record, Universal does the same thing. So apparently two of the 3 leading laser manufactures in the world have just been creating "hobby machines" for the last 2 decades.

I wouldn't trade my Trotec for any other machine on the market. Period. It's that powerful of a machine and Job Control system. Job Control is great because it's running your laser off the computer. So 15 years after buying a machine, your functionality is the exact same as a brand new machine because the upgrade is in Job Control, not physically on the machine, like these machines that require you to be stuck on Windows 95 because their hardware can't handle anything newer. I call that a brilliant move instead of forcing customers to be stuck on legacy equipment or buy new machines.

The sad part is that you'll never own one and see the real benefits. But then again, you've said before that you couldn't deal with a fast machine because it would require too much of your time. You could take a bulldozer and drag 80% of those machines stuffed in your garage out and replace them with 1 machine and get near the same output :)

[Brian Lamb]

Right, and this is coming from the same guy who said modern lasers were a waste of money, then bought a GCC and said how amazing it is? I agree with Gary and Mike. If you, for one split second, think a Trotec isn't a machine made for production then you truly don't understand it's power. We can do things you can't even dream about on your machines. And just for the record, Universal does the same thing. So apparently two of the 3 leading laser manufactures in the world have just been creating "hobby machines" for the last 2 decades.


:)


Ok, so now I'm even more confused, what does Universal do the same? My Universal has memory, you download jobs to it and they could be run from the laser without any attachment to the computer.

I do agree that worrying about old computer software is stupid... the ULS will run on any windows from all the way back to Windows 10. I would be dumping anything that required me to run Windows 95 or vista or whatever ancient crap that hasn't been around sine the 90's.

[Scott Shepherd]

Ok, so now I'm even more confused, what does Universal do the same? My Universal has memory, you download jobs to it and they could be run from the laser without any attachment to the computer.

I do agree that worrying about old computer software is stupid... the ULS will run on any windows from all the way back to Windows 10. I would be dumping anything that required me to run Windows 95 or vista or whatever ancient crap that hasn't been around sine the 90's.

What year is your Universal? Our 2007 model PLS4.60 has no memory and runs off a job control system. You can’t run the machine without a computer. The benefit you gain is being able to see the last 2000 jobs you have run, pull them up without opening Corel, move them around the plate and save or adjust everything about them.

[Brian Lamb]

I can't remember for sure, 2003 or 2006, I talked to ULS with the serial number, but I can't find where I wrote it down. It's a X-600. After I run at the job, I just save the file and it has all the location changes and any power settings saved at the same time. Yes, I would have to open corel to recut at another time, but that's pretty easy, it's open all the time in my laptop that I use to run the machine, no different than searching through job control to find the program.

[Scott Shepherd]

Yes, I would have to open corel to recut at another time, but that's pretty easy, it's open all the time in my laptop that I use to run the machine, no different than searching through job control to find the program.

It's very different. Are your settings stored in that corel file? Nope. They are stored in Corel. The point was that ULS no longer makes machines that work the way yours does. ULS and Trotec all run a Job Control system. They do it for a reason. Because it works.

It's always people who don't have it that say it's not worth it and it doesn't work. It's like comparing the features of a smart phone to a flip phone. Are they both phones? Yes. Does your phone work? Yes. Can I do more with a smart phone than you can do with your flip phone? Absolutely. Exact same thing with Job Control systems.

[Gary Hair]

I can't remember for sure, 2003 or 2006, I talked to ULS with the serial number, but I can't find where I wrote it down. It's a X-600. After I run at the job, I just save the file and it has all the location changes and any power settings saved at the same time. Yes, I would have to open corel to recut at another time, but that's pretty easy, it's open all the time in my laptop that I use to run the machine, no different than searching through job control to find the program.

Another big difference with Job Control is that you can save the plate (complete with layout, speed, power, etc.) to your customer folder - simply double click on it to open in JC and it's ready to go, no muss, no fuss, just click the play button and off it goes!

[Brian Lamb]

It's very different. Are your settings stored in that corel file? Nope. They are stored in Corel. The point was that ULS no longer makes machines that work the way yours does. ULS and Trotec all run a Job Control system. They do it for a reason. Because it works.

It's always people who don't have it that say it's not worth it and it doesn't work. It's like comparing the features of a smart phone to a flip phone. Are they both phones? Yes. Does your phone work? Yes. Can I do more with a smart phone than you can do with your flip phone? Absolutely. Exact same thing with Job Control systems.

Scott,

I never said it's not worth it and it doesn't work.... I'm just trying to understand and educate myself about the different varieties of machines and software. As for my settings being saved in that Corel file and your answer is Nope, that's not correct, my settings are most certainly saved in that Corel File. Any file I have cut, if saved after I have made any adjustments, can be opened again and all my settings are remembered and ready to go.

I just went and watched some video's on Trotec's Job Control... about the only advantage I see without actually using it is that it has a material database integrated into it, so you just choose the material and it sets your settings. That would be handy, but my Steno pad next to the machine has all the settings in it that I've dialed in for my machine also... not much of a stretch to grab the pad, and in my print preferences screen, set the power accordingly.

I don't see it as much different than saying six of one, half dozen of another....

[Scott Shepherd]

Scott,

I never said it's not worth it and it doesn't work.... I'm just trying to understand and educate myself about the different varieties of machines and software. As for my settings being saved in that Corel file and your answer is Nope, that's not correct, my settings are most certainly saved in that Corel File. Any file I have cut, if saved after I have made any adjustments, can be opened again and all my settings are remembered and ready to go.

I just went and watched some video's on Trotec's Job Control... about the only advantage I see without actually using it is that it has a material database integrated into it, so you just choose the material and it sets your settings. That would be handy, but my Steno pad next to the machine has all the settings in it that I've dialed in for my machine also... not much of a stretch to grab the pad, and in my print preferences screen, set the power accordingly.

I don't see it as much different than saying six of one, half dozen of another....

Your settings aren't saved in your Corel files. You TYPED the settings in a text. You still have to renter that in. As someone who's been around CNC as long as you have, and you have appreciated the difference between an NC machine running off paper tape and a CNC machine that can have data streamed in and out of buffers, then I would think you would appreciate the leaps forward in technology. If you think the only thing a Job Control system does is keep the same stuff that's on your notepad, you are missing it completely.

Like I said, it's the difference in a flip phone and a smart phone. Both make calls. Outside of that, they aren't very similar. Me, to run my business, I'll take the smart phone. Want to run your business off a flip phone, that's fine with me too, but don't pretend that your flip phone is superior to my smart phone because it's not, not in any way.

[Brian Lamb]

OK, I just got in from running a few jobs and I was wrong, the actual power settings are not saved, my mistake... guess I just got lucky opening few repeat jobs that happened to have the same power settings.

I understand improved technology, and yes, machines with memory were a hell of a step forward over ones without. We also have dealt with minuscule amounts of memory in the actual machines in relation to the size of the programs. It's not uncommon to have machines with less than 1mb of memory and have programs into the 5 or 6mb range, can cause for some issues.

That is why I wonder at the Trotec having no memory at all and being run essentially drip feed like we have to do with old low memory CNC's. You keep telling me it's like a flip phone vs. a smart phone, but you aren't telling me what the differences or advantages are???

You seem to have your feathers in a ruffle here, and all I'm asking is what is so great about the job control type of software and having to have a separate computer for each machine.... I mean if we want to step up to current technology, we should be able to have one computer sending print/laser jobs to as many lasers as we want to have in our shop. As it is, with job control it sounds like because the machine has no memory, or a control panel to do any "at the machine" adjustments, then you have to have a pc sitting next to it to be able to control it.

Give me some "for instance's" of how great this job control software is, so I can understand it better.

Thanks!

[Kev Williams]

Right, and this is coming from the same guy who said modern lasers were a waste of money, then bought a GCC and said how amazing it is? I agree with Gary and Mike. If you, for one split second, think a Trotec isn't a machine made for production then you truly don't understand it's power. We can do things you can't even dream about on your machines. And just for the record, Universal does the same thing. So apparently two of the 3 leading laser manufactures in the world have just been creating "hobby machines" for the last 2 decades.

I wouldn't trade my Trotec for any other machine on the market. Period. It's that powerful of a machine and Job Control system. Job Control is great because it's running your laser off the computer. So 15 years after buying a machine, your functionality is the exact same as a brand new machine because the upgrade is in Job Control, not physically on the machine, like these machines that require you to be stuck on Windows 95 because their hardware can't handle anything newer. I call that a brilliant move instead of forcing customers to be stuck on legacy equipment or buy new machines.

The sad part is that you'll never own one and see the real benefits. But then again, you've said before that you couldn't deal with a fast machine because it would require too much of your time. You could take a bulldozer and drag 80% of those machines stuffed in your garage out and replace them with 1 machine and get near the same output :)
glad you put a smiley there because you simply can't be serious? Last night I had 12 of my 15 machines loaded up with jobs, the only 3 machines NOT loaded, my BIL's-well, it IS loaded but HE does that work-- the vinyl cutter, and the 3200.

-3400#1 is running off silver (alum alloy) platters

-3400#2 is running 600 roller coaster bumpers, engraving date code info

-5000XT#1 was running Allen Bradley 559 legend plates, more of the same to follow

-5000XT#2 was cutting holes in a fiberglass Hoffman box lid, next up is several 1/8" Rowmark labels and operator plates

-5000 is engraving a crapload of cowbells, it's Olympics season

-IS400 was engraving Allen Bradley 100WE plastic legend plates

-IS700 is engraving a box full of aluminum operator panels

-3400#3 was engraving stainless microphone bodies, aluminum boxes are next

-fiber is deep engraving some stainless ID plates, more to follow

-LS900 is in the middle of a few hundred SS ID plates, which I stop occasionally to run leather, glass, other stainless, Rowmark etc-

-GCC was engraving a pair of stainless radiator covers that fit old G-body GM cars, and ran off a couple hundred $ worth of Rowmark today, 100+ flasks are next up- so like it or not, the old thing IS pretty amazing-

-Triumph was Cermarking a cowbell, finished cermarking a small batch of aluminum ID tags, and will be running another 100 cowbells tonight...

So, which 80% of these machines- all paid for by the way, all reliable as hell, and did I mention PAID for and earning pure profit- should I bulldoze out of here?

===other than the proprietary fiber, which I wish wasn't, I composed, set up and ran every job and machine using TWO computers. Do you seriously believe that being required to use TWELVE different computers to run twelve separate machines, regardless of how spectacularly magical job control may be, would somehow SAVE me time?

Could I make use of a Trotec? Of course, but the way I work, I don't need one... And THAT would be the waste of money I was talking about.

Think I'm about due for a break...

[Scott Shepherd]

That is why I wonder at the Trotec having no memory at all and being run essentially drip feed like we have to do with old low memory CNC's. You keep telling me it's like a flip phone vs. a smart phone, but you aren't telling me what the differences or advantages are???

Give me some "for instance's" of how great this job control software is, so I can understand it better.

Thanks!

It has been asked and answered dozens of times over the years. As someone who has run and programmed NC and CNC machines since the early 80’s, I’ve lived through paper tapes up through robotic machines that set themselves up, change their own tools and fixtures. I’ve run Machining Cells that you loaded the jobs into a computer and it figured out which machine was available at what time and it moved jobs from machine to machine, based on the schedule, so I’m well versed in machine technology. You don’t have to believe what I say, but it’s not just me, there are some of the most seasoned veterans in this industry on the forum and they say the same things. Surely we couldn’t have all been fooled by this 1 comptuer 1 Laser fad? Again, why is Universal doing it that way since 2006? 11 years of doing it and they still do it? Surely there MUST be something to it?


glad you put a smiley there because you simply can't be serious? Last night I had 12 of my 15 machines loaded up with jobs, the only 3 machines NOT loaded, my BIL's-well, it IS loaded but HE does that work-- the vinyl cutter, and the 3200.

-3400#1 is running off silver (alum alloy) platters

-3400#2 is running 600 roller coaster bumpers, engraving date code info

-5000XT#1 was running Allen Bradley 559 legend plates, more of the same to follow

-5000XT#2 was cutting holes in a fiberglass Hoffman box lid, next up is several 1/8" Rowmark labels and operator plates

-5000 is engraving a crapload of cowbells, it's Olympics season
'
-IS400 was engraving Allen Bradley 100WE plastic legend plates

-IS700 is engraving a box full of aluminum operator panels

-3400#3 was engraving stainless microphone bodies, aluminum boxes are next

-fiber is deep engraving some stainless ID plates, more to follow

-LS900 is in the middle of a few hundred SS ID plates, which I stop occasionally to run leather, glass, other stainless, Rowmark etc-

-GCC was engraving a pair of stainless radiator covers that fit old G-body GM cars, and ran off a couple hundred $ worth of Rowmark today, 100+ flasks are next up- so like it or not, the old thing IS pretty amazing-

-Triumph was Cermarking a cowbell, finished cermarking a small batch of aluminum ID tags, and will be running another 100 cowbells tonight...

Could I make use of a Trotec? Of course, but the way I work, I don't need one... And THAT would be the waste of money I was talking about.

Think I'm about due for a break...

If you had 12 machines running and priced at $60 per hour per machine (low end), then you should have been making at least $700 per hour. If you are making those kinds of rates, then you should be pulling in over $2,000,000 a year as a one man shop, more or less. Some how I doubt that’s the case.

Just because YOU don’t have the need for it because of the work you do, doesn’t mean it’s a waste of money for people that do use it.

[Mike Null]

Just in case anybody thinks that you must dedicate a pc to the Trotec, I run the Trotec, 5 various printers, email, bookkeeping, Corel, Office etc. from one Asus desktop machine. I also have a dedicated UPS PC and printer and an old XP pro which runs my Newing Hall.

[Amy Heise]

I was told we could not run both trotec lasers at the same time from my computer, but I do. I think the reason I can get around it is one is a rayjet and the other the Speedy 360 Flexx so 2 different print drivers. I have had once or twice where one will stop for some reason in the middle of a run - but I think it was just a coincidence.

[Gary Hair]

I was told we could not run both trotec lasers at the same time from my computer, but I do. I think the reason I can get around it is one is a rayjet and the other the Speedy 360 Flexx so 2 different print drivers. I have had once or twice where one will stop for some reason in the middle of a run - but I think it was just a coincidence.

Who told you that, your dealer or Trotec tech support?

[Lee DeRaud]

What year is your Universal? Our 2007 model PLS4.60 has no memory and runs off a job control system. You can’t run the machine without a computer. The benefit you gain is being able to see the last 2000 jobs you have run, pull them up without opening Corel, move them around the plate and save or adjust everything about them.May also depend on the model, but that's how my 2005-vintage VL200 works.

In the context of this thread, the problem is that, while I think you can install multiple instances of the print driver* and job control system (or as ULS calls it, VCP, for "virtual control panel"), I suspect they'll all store the intermediate job files to the same directory: there's certainly nothing in the installation process that allows you to specify or change that directory name.

(*My VL200 has two print drivers, the normal, AKA "Advanced", driver and a truly stupid one with canned speed/power levels that I never use. But they both go through the same VCP and store their files in the same place.)

[Gary Hair]

May also depend on the model, but that's how my 2005-vintage VL200 works.

In the context of this thread, the problem is that, while I think you can install multiple instances of the print driver* and job control system (or as ULS calls it, VCP, for "virtual control panel"), I suspect they'll all store the intermediate job files to the same directory: there's certainly nothing in the installation process that allows you to specify or change that directory name.

(*My VL200 has two print drivers, the normal, AKA "Advanced", driver and a truly stupid one with canned speed/power levels that I never use. But they both go through the same VCP and store their files in the same place.)

Trotec Job Control allows you to specify the directory for the job files. This allows you to use several computers to send work to the laser.

[Lee DeRaud]

Trotec Job Control allows you to specify the directory for the job files. This allows you to use several computers to send work to the laser.Actually, that I can do, by sharing the fixed job directory, installing the print driver on another computer, and setting up a symbolic link to the remote job directory. (Only one computer can run the control panel app, since it talks to the laser over USB.)

But I thought we were discussing "one computer, two lasers" rather than "two computers, one laser".

[Gary Hair]

Actually, that I can do, by sharing the fixed job directory, installing the print driver on another computer, and setting up a symbolic link to the remote job directory. (Only one computer can run the control panel app, since it talks to the laser over USB.)

This sounds similar to how JC works. Every computer can send the print job to JC in a common folder on the network then the computer actually connected to the laser has its own copy of JC running and you can send them to the laser from there.


But I thought we were discussing "one computer, two lasers" rather than "two computers, one laser".

We were but Lee mentioned multiple computers and one laser.

[Lee DeRaud]

We were but Lee mentioned multiple computers and one laser.(scratches head) For the life of me I don't recall doing that...

[Gary Hair]

(scratches head) For the life of me I don't recall doing that...

I misread your previous post as meaning multiple computers with one laser...

[Lee DeRaud]

I misread your previous post as meaning multiple computers with one laser...
I did, but that was in response to your post:

Trotec Job Control allows you to specify the directory for the job files. This allows you to use several computers to send work to the laser.

[Gary Hair]

I did, but that was in response to your post:

So now I'm replying to posts with reference to my own posts thinking that they were someone else... When I start arguing with myself then I'll take a day off.