Marriage Maintenance Question Re: Veritas Combination Plane

[Brian Harvick]

Okay, I receive forgiveness from Her Highness on a frequent basis. But buying the Veritas Combination plane is a $400 assault on the old checking account. So before I throw away hard earned attaboys, let me ask the board:
As I understand it, the Combination Plane (large Plow) will allow me to use it as a large plow (plough) plane and ALSO not buy a rabbet plane. Is that a safe assumption? Will it cut rabbets as well and conveniently as a dedicated rabbet plane? I do not want to be thrown into an attaboy ditch so deep that it will require super human effort to extricate myself. Mistuh Wabbit cannot fool Missus Wabbit very often.

[Mike Henderson]

Perhaps you should post this in the Neanderthal forum. Since you posted in the Power tool forum, I'd say that you can do the things that this plane will do with your power tools and save yourself the $400. I use power tools and never felt the need for a plane like that.

Mike

[Brian Harvick]

Thanks, Mike!

I guess I didn't know what the Neanderthal forum was. Prolly cause I am one. I also have power tools able to do the job. I am however at my age eager to work in the quiet as much as possible.

[Brian Harvick]

Du-u-u-u-u-h !

Mike, I guess next you'll want me to actually READ the forum headings ! It saaaaays right up there "hand tools". I told you I was getting old.

Thanks for setting me straight.

[Brian Harvick]

Can I reliably buy the Veritas Combination Plane and then NOT buy the rabbet plane? My wife will have very strong and urgent messages for me if I unload $400 on a combination plane and then whine about wanting a rabbet plane.

As I understand it, I can use the large plow plane as a plow plane and a rabbet. Correct?

[Pat Barry]

Go for both. Report back later.

[Patrick Chase]

Can I reliably buy the Veritas Combination Plane and then NOT buy the rabbet plane? My wife will have very strong and urgent messages for me if I unload $400 on a combination plane and then whine about wanting a rabbet plane.
As I understand it, I can use the large plow plane as a plow plane and a rabbet. Correct?

You can certainly rabbet with a combination plane, though make sure to get an appropriately wide iron.

The main functional differences between the LV combo and the skew rabbet are:


The rabbet has a skewed iron, which helps it to cut a somewhat cleaner "wall" (http://musingsfrombigpink.blogspot.com/2011/01/skewed-rabbet-vs-straight-rabbet.html) and also makes it more tearout-resistant in some situations.
The rabbet has a full-width sole. For routine rabbeting in flat surfaces this isn't a huge deal, but it becomes important if you ever try to rabbet starting from an other-than-flat surface (this sometimes happens when cutting "guide rabbets" for moldings, for example).


Pat's got it all wrong though: You need *both* rabbets (LH + RH) and the combo.

[Mike Brady]

That's a tough question since the combination plane in question has no real track record. Any answer is based hypothetical assumptions. The rabbet plane has a solid history to refer to.

[Patrick Chase]

That's a tough question since the combination plane in question has no real track record. Any answer is based hypothetical assumptions. The rabbet plane has a solid history to refer to.

I have the combo plane in question as well as the skew rabbets and have used both a fair bit (I've even rabbeted with the combo), so I don't think the characterization of "hypothetical" is at all fair or reasonable. The fact that you don't know something doesn't make it unknown.

Also the LV combo is basically an updated 45, which is a VERY well-known quantity. We're not talking about a new class or pattern of plane here.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Brian and welcome to the cave by the Creek.

For many years my Stanley #45, combo plane, was my choice for making rabbets. Currently I am in California with internet by chance. But if you are in the Portland, Oregon area let my know if you would like to get together to give a combo plane a test drive.

The main thing to remember with a combo plane cutting rabbets is to have the movable skate set inside the edge of the work. The extra blade hangs out over the fence.

jtk

[Brian Harvick]

I would like to pass along information I received from my wife's attorney:

"To Pat and Patrick,

Thank you so much for recommending to Brian that he needs to buy 2-3 more additional planes. Strongly urge him to buy the shooting plane as well. There will be no need for him to buy a boat however. I am confident that his wife will employ me quickly if he does as you two have recommended. This should be a quick and easy paid year of college for my daughter."

Thanks guys ! :>)

[Jim Koepke]

Don't forget, there are many kinds of rabbet planes.

Old wood body models, Carriage maker rabbet planes (Stanley #10), Shoulder planes and don't forget side rabbet planes.

Maybe the lawyer can get two years of tuition.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

Du-u-u-u-u-h !

Mike, I guess next you'll want me to actually READ the forum headings ! It saaaaays right up there "hand tools". I told you I was getting old.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Yes, a combo plane will cut rabbets. There's another almost identical thread on the neander forum right now (right down to the relationship-y parts), so you might want to TAL at that.

[Noah Magnuson]

As an owner of the combo plane, I can tell you it will do what you wish, but perhaps not with as little setup as a dedicated rabbet plane. I can think of better ways to spend $400, but it sounds like I may get a bit more forgiveness than you, so I can take a few chances. Don't get me wrong, it is a good and well-made plane, but if this is your one $400 attaboy for the year, I would probably get something else.

[Patrick Chase]

It depends on what you want to do.

If you want to cut rabbets, then get a rabbet plane. If you want to cut rabbets and grooves and beads and reeds and T&G joints etc then get a combo plane (though if I were funding-constrained I'd consider a used #45).

[Stewie Simpson]

Will it cut rabbets as well and conveniently as a dedicated rabbet plane?

Addressing your specific question. No.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/moving%20fillister%20plane%20build/_DSC0206_zpsbfybq9ea.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/moving%20fillister%20plane%20build/_DSC0206_zpsbfybq9ea.jpg.html)

[Phil Mueller]

That’s a beautiful plane, Stewie.

[Pat Barry]

Let's just say, for example, that you need these new tools to create that new _________ for your bride. I bet you would get forgiveness for good behaviour. Now, if you need them for yourself, the boat will probably never happen.

[Patrick Chase]

Addressing your specific question. No.

Stewie is right.

Combination planes are inevitably compromised. They don't rabbet as well as a rabbet plane or moving fillister, they don't plow as well as dado planes, they don't bead as well as dedicated beaders, they don't do T&G as well as a pair of match planes, etc.

With that said, with some practice a combo is "good enough" for many uses, and if you genuinely need all of those capabilities on a limited budget then it may be the only viable option. That's why I asked if you actually need to do stuff other than rabbeting in post #7.

[Patrick Chase]

Really, I think that you need both bevel-up (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=70926&cat=1,230,41182,48945) and bevel-down (https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/no.-51-shoot-board-plane-) shooting planes. That way you should be able to keep one when the property is divided.

Oh, and don't forget a miter plane for when you use a miter jack instead of shooting (you do have a miter jack, right?)

[Patrick Chase]

Let's just say, for example, that you need these new tools to create that new _________ for your bride. I bet you would get forgiveness for good behaviour. Now, if you need them for yourself, the boat will probably never happen.

Does anybody ever actually build the object[s] that they use to justify their tool habit?

[Tim Janssen]

Does anybody ever actually build the object[s] that they use to justify their tool habit?

Absolutely! Doesn't everybody.

[Stew Denton]

Brian, I have a Stanley 45 that I have only used a limited amount over the years, and a Record 778 that I have just acquired, tuned up, and done the small amount of restoration work that it needed. Like the 45 I have used it only a little.

I say this, because I am not an expert, by any wild stretch of the imagination with either plane, and wanted you to know that so you would take that into consideration when you consider what I suggest. However, what I can say is that in my limit experience it takes some time and fooling (again based on my limited experience) with the combination plane, to get good with it, and the big combination plane has to be a lot harder to master than my 45.

For that reason, I would suggest that you get the one plane, and practice enough with it to find out whether it will do as well as you need, for cutting rabbets, and that will give you the answer you need.

In my case, the 778 is designed to cut rabbets, and is easier to fool with than the 45, but the 45 will cut rabbets too. It was designed to do such and other things, it just isn't quite as handy, and does not do quite as well. (The 778 was designed for that one job, but the 45 is designed for several jobs, as you know. As such the 45 has to be a compromise, compromises that the dedicated plane does not have to make.)

At any rate, I would suggest that you buy the one expensive plane and work with it until you make a decision to get (or to forgo) the second plane. It also buys some time for the lady of the house to get over the last assault to the check book.

Regards,

Stew

[Patrick Chase]

I say this, because I am not an expert, by any wild stretch of the imagination with either plane, and wanted you to know that so you would take that into consideration when you consider what I suggest. However, what I can say is that in my limit experience it takes some time and fooling (again based on my limited experience) with the combination plane, to get good with it, and the big combination plane has to be a lot harder to master than my 45.

The LV Large Combo is basically an updated #45. It has the same basic two-skate configuration and needs no more setup/adjustment. I own one, and IMO it's easier to handle than the #45 if anything.