Let's talk about low angle jack planes

[Chris Stephenson]

I've recently constructed a shooting board for my bench and quickly realized this is a great opportunity to tell the misses that I clearly "need" to buy a low angle jack plane ;)

I'd love to plop down for a Lie Nielsen or Veritas, if only money grew on trees....

To that end, I've been looking at the current Stanley sweetheart version that can be had for $122 (price fluctuates on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002B56CUY/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I2WISDODLW53SF&colid=1AERWKTKKN7QS

Chris Schwartz review pointed me in this direction: https://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/new-stanley-62-better-but-not-yet-perfect

For the folks on here that have used all three low angle jack planes, is this one worth considering? Or should I save up for a high end version that costs more than double?

Thanks,
Chris

[Bill McDermott]

Chris, I use the LV for shooting and am very happy with it - for that and many other purposes. I am sure they will all work. But there is one feature in the LV worth noting. There are small set screws that hold the blade side to side. I don't think it is required, but that feature helps me keep the blade in perfect alignment. When I shoot with a #4 or other plane, the blade can get bumped out of position. Granted, that is normally only a problem when I get dull... but it happens.

[Jamie Buxton]

Using a low-angle jack plane on a shooting board is so last year. What you need is a shooting plane. http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=70926&cat=1,41182,48945&ap=1 Maybe you need a pair -- one left-hand, and one right-hand.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have an original and have had for many years. I have used the LN, Veritas, and new Stanley. If you can find a nice original, I think that is the way to go if you find a nice one. Something, something, history and all that. I would go with the LN next, then either the Veritas or the Stanley. Never saw need for the little jack screws, and I will often cock the blade on purpose for little tasks myself. Never had a problem with the blade staying where I put it.

Besides shooting the #62's, no matter what brand are just great planes to have around. Second favorite to my LN low angle block.

[Chris Stephenson]

Bill - great feedback, i'm hoping to be in Maine in the coming months and will seek to stop by Lie Nielsen to try it out. My gut is telling me to veer away from the Stanely

[Chris Stephenson]

Jamie - I couldn't agree more, had the opportunity to try this at the last woodworking show, hence the drive to build a shooting board. However, I cannot simply take on the cost yet.

[Chris Stephenson]

Larry - great feedback, seems like folks on here have an affinity for Lie Nielsen. I recently purchased their scrub plane and love it, guess there might be more LN purchases in my future.

[Phil Mueller]

Chris,
I have the newer Stanley, the LV low angle jack and the LV shooting plane (purchased over time in that order). For general shooting purposes, the LV shooting plane is my go to. It just works great. Especially after I installed a side guide on my shooting board.

With that said, before getting the shooting plane, I used the LV low angle, and the Stanley. Both can work well.

The Stanley iron does have a tendency to move. It has an inferior cap iron that must be locked down hard to keep the iron in place. It was certainly frustrating at first, but with a little perseverance once I had it set up and locked down (and sharp) it worked well. I kept it as a dedicated shooting plane for some time, which was quite convenient, before getting the LV shooting plane. I will also say that I was fortunate to get a Stanley with a very flat sole and accurate 90 degree sides (you can certainly compensate with iron angle, if not).

The LV low angle jack is an excellent plane for a number of tasks. And as mentioned above, the side set screws keep the iron from moving side to side. Before I got the shooting plane, I still used the Stanley more for shooting, because it was all set up and ready to go. In fact, I still use the Stanley for some 45 degree shooting on my donkey’s ear shooting board.

I won’t kid you, the Stanley can be frustrating. But then again, it’s a low cost entry that can get the job done. Also keep in mind, unlike the LV or even LN planes, there’s not much resale value in the Stanley. So it you do find you hate it, you won’t recoup a lot.

[Larry Edgerton]

Bill - great feedback, i'm hoping to be in Maine in the coming months and will seek to stop by Lie Nielsen to try it out. My gut is telling me to veer away from the Stanely

I stopped in there when they were still making planes in the old barn, very cool. You get to play at their benches with whatever plane you wish.

[Kevin Perez]

I have a LN 62 that I love. It's great to get multiple blades for it with different bevel angles for easier or more difficult grain situations. I really like the LV set screws in planes, but the prior poster, I've never had an issue with the blade moving on me. It does take some trial and error tapping with a small hammer to get it straight after you remove the blade for sharpening, though.

[Jim Koepke]

Before LN and LV came out with specific shooting planes an LN #62 was bought for use on my shooting board. My one recommendation is to also purchase or make a hot dog if you are going to use it for shooting. It makes things work so much easier.

Here is a post on putting together my ambidextrous shooting board:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?244777-Oh-Shoot!

It has a few other tips on shooting angles and such.

jtk

[Steven Harrison]

I have a LV LAJ and I really like it. I think the tote shape is more important on the low angle jacks because of how you push it and the center of gravity. I thought this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcW0bqmmPts) by Matt Estlea did a good job comparing them (second half of the video).

[Normand Leblanc]

Well... I do not use a low angle plane for shooting. I typically use a WoodRiver no.4 or an old Record no.5 and I have no problem at all. In any case, I'm not using my shooting board very much, I prefer to hold the piece vertical in the vise and plane to the line. With this method you can skew the plane and avoid impacts like when using the shooting board. I tend to believe that my blade remain sharp much longer.

[kent wardecke]

A new Stanley Sweat Heart? Right now I feel like I felt the day I found out the Easter Bunny wasn't real. I have spent the past month reading Patrick's blood and gore, surfing eBay and reading posts trying to learn the lingo and differences of the vintage planes and come to find out buying new is an option?
Are they putting the effort into making the sweet heart line worth the time?

[Jim Koepke]

A new Stanley Sweat Heart? Right now I feel like I felt the day I found out the Easter Bunny wasn't real. I have spent the past month reading Patrick's blood and gore, surfing eBay and reading posts trying to learn the lingo and differences of the vintage planes and come to find out buying new is an option?
Are they putting the effort into making the sweet heart line worth the time?

Hi Kent,

The "new" Stanley products and the old Stanley products are very different things. It seems Stanley recently learned there was money to be made from some of their old designs so they went out to find off shore factories to make them.

It seems they also noticed some folks liked, and would pay more for, the SW inside the heart on vintage tools so they revived that logo. Unfortunately they didn't work on producing premium quality as much as they did to charge premium prices.

The first batches were below par.

Not sure what the current production quality may be.

jtk

[Rob Luter]

I went with the Lee Valley and have been happy. It works well for shooting, as a jack plane, and as a big smoother. The Lie Nielsen is a fine tool as well. I wish I could own both. No experience with the new Stanley.

[Don Dorn]

I used a Lee Valley LA Jack for a long time and it worked very well. Then, I found a Record T5 Technical Jack and got rid of the LV. While the T5 works well, I regret parting with it. It served other purposes that the T5 doesn't do as well.

[justin sherriff]

extra blades for the new stanley are quite hard to find.

[Patrick Chase]

Using a low-angle jack plane on a shooting board is so last year. What you need is a shooting plane. http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=70926&cat=1,41182,48945&ap=1 Maybe you need a pair -- one left-hand, and one right-hand.

Or one bevel-up and one bevel-down :-).

[Patrick Chase]

The Stanley iron does have a tendency to move. It has an inferior cap iron that must be locked down hard to keep the iron in place.

You mean "lever cap" here right? Obviously the 62 doesn't have a cap iron.

Assuming you're referring to the lever cap, that's my biggest gripe with the new Sweethearts. As you say the lever cap has to be locked up tight to hold the iron in plane, but then you can't adjust it without loosening and retightening the lever cap. IMO it's an ergonomic disaster compared to the LN/LV planes.

[john zulu]

I've recently constructed a shooting board for my bench and quickly realized this is a great opportunity to tell the misses that I clearly "need" to buy a low angle jack plane ;)

I'd love to plop down for a Lie Nielsen or Veritas, if only money grew on trees....

To that end, I've been looking at the current Stanley sweetheart version that can be had for $122 (price fluctuates on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002B56CUY/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I2WISDODLW53SF&colid=1AERWKTKKN7QS

Chris Schwartz review pointed me in this direction: https://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/new-stanley-62-better-but-not-yet-perfect

For the folks on here that have used all three low angle jack planes, is this one worth considering? Or should I save up for a high end version that costs more than double?

Thanks,
Chris

I use LV Jack plane. I did not regret buying it as I use almost all the blade configurations. From the 25 to 50 degrees and the tooth blade. Each has it's own use. The wood I work with has
interlocking grain which needs this kind of treatment. Western woods are more tame in general. With 38 degrees I was able to plane ebony to a glass finish. It depends on your usage.

After using the Shooting plane from LV this plane is a poor comparison or a low angle block plane for short pieces. If you go for a higher end LA jack then the veritas would be a better choice
are there are more blade configurations for it. I have LN gear but still select LV LA Jack.

[Frederick Skelly]

Before LN and LV came out with specific shooting planes an LN #62 was bought for use on my shooting board. My one recommendation is to also purchase or make a hot dog if you are going to use it for shooting. It makes things work so much easier.

Here is a post on putting together my ambidextrous shooting board:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?244777-Oh-Shoot!

It has a few other tips on shooting angles and such.

jtk

Going slightly off topic here... I finally made a hotdog handle for my LV Low Angle Jack this past weekend. Jim's right (as usual) - it makes a world of difference on my donkey ear shooting board. So consider doing that for yourself Chris - regardless of which you buy. It is so much easier to shoot that I can't imagine the the LV shooting plane that I'd saved up to buy could be noticeably better.

Chris, if you buy the new Stanley I'd appreciate reading a review here.

Fred

[Chris Stephenson]

Gentlemen - all great info, I can't get over how much of a resource and great help the folks are on this site.

So, after reading every review and taking the time to sleep on it, I decided I needed to just bite the bullet and make an investment on quality planes. Figuring one day, I can pass them down. If it was just the low angle jack, I probably would have gone the LN route, however I know i'll eventually want a nice block and smoothing plane. In which, Lee Valley offers a significant discount when you buy their bundle, so i'm going to pull the trigger on this option and will report back once I've gotten the opportunity to use them all. http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=74187&cat=1,41182

Includes their:
Low angle smoothing plane with two different blades
Low angle block plane
Low angle jack plane

Retail is $648, but as a bundle it's discounted to $530 which seems like the best value in the quality plane market.

[Prashun Patel]

It is indeed a good deal. I own two of those planes (the small bu smoother and the la jack).

I can tell you from use that the small bu smoother is not for everyone. I in fact tried to sell mine a while back. There were no takers. This might tell you something about its utility. I have come to accept and love this plane, but for small tasks. I much prefer the traditional #4 for general smoothing. Two reasons: better mass, better control of tear out. With that small smoother you may need to adjust the bevel angle for difficult woods. That blade is not shareable with the LA jack or LA jointer. So you may find yourself wanting to buy a second blade to handle trickier woods. With a bevel down smoother, you can control a good deal of tear out with proper chip breaker setting (I'm really seeing the truth in this lately).

As for the block, some people (caveat: this is hearsay) find that plane a little too large.

I think the choice of bevel up v bevel down is a personal and subtle one. I wouldn't jump into all of these just because it's a good deal.

Personally, I would buy the one plane you think you need and can put to good use. I would build your arsenal one at a time. While you may miss out on package deals, you'll end up with fewer planes - and more usable planes. Learn from my mistakes...

As for the LA jack, it is a fantastic general purpose plane. It can do many things fairly well. But for smoothing, you'll ultimately want something smaller, for jointing, something larger, for shooting something heavier, and for thicknessing something lighter. I reach for it often, yet find that it's not the best tool for the job most of the time. I am conflicted about this one. For me, it's value seems to have diminished as I've settled into a dedicated smoother, shooter, jointer, scrub plane. If you're doing any of these tasks occasionally, the veritas la jack is wonderful; any more than occasionally, dedicated planes may serve better.

[glenn bradley]

I went straight to the Veritas LAJ so cannot help with other choices. I will say that even as my hand plane corral fleshed out I do not find the LAJ going idle as others have mentioned. I do now have a dedicated shooter and the LAJ still sees enough use to warrant a spot in the till, right at hand.

[Bill McNiel]

Yet another side note-the Low Angle Block can be converted into a nice small smoother by getting the tote & knob accessory (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=41715&cat=1,41182,41189&ap=1). I love my LA Block (I have relatively small hands and have never considered it too big) but given the assortment of blocks in my till I typically leave the Veritas LA block with the tote on it.

The LA Jack is, as Prashun says, "a fantastic general purpose plane" but I also have two Bailey #5s (one with a soft cambered scrub blade and one with a Veritas replacement blade for bevel down work) and an ECE Jack.

I also have the LA Smoother but not the "small" version. Check out Derek's site for reviews.

[kent wardecke]

Hi Kent,

The "new" Stanley products and the old Stanley products are very different things. It seems Stanley recently learned there was money to be made from some of their old designs so they went out to find off shore factories to make them.

It seems they also noticed some folks liked, and would pay more for, the SW inside the heart on vintage tools so they revived that logo. Unfortunately they didn't work on producing premium quality as much as they did to charge premium prices.

The first batches were below par.

Not sure what the current production quality may be.

jtk

OK this time
With a scarcity of intact No. 62's, the mouth was susceptible to braking. New may be the most logical choice.
I'm cheap which makes shopping a drag but if your going to pay a premium price then it has to be a premium product and the Sweet Heart's are almost twice what a new Stanley costs.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm cheap which makes shopping a drag but if your going to pay a premium price then it has to be a premium product and the Sweet Heart's are almost twice what a new Stanley costs.

There are two different eras of tools with the Sweet Heart logo. The first from the 1920's and early 1930s are valued by collectors. The recent Sweet Heart tools do have some improvements on the old design, but may not be as good as the price.

My LN #62 is definitely worth the cost in my opinion.

jtk

[Simon MacGowen]

Retail is $648, but as a bundle it's discounted to $530 which seems like the best value in the quality plane market.

I hope it is not too late. DO NOT get the starter set ... Get the Starter Set PM-V11 version!!!, especially since you plane to shoot. As long as they have not shipped, you can contact Customer Service by phone and change your order. Think PM-V11 as Enerzier Bunny: it keeps going and going. O1? You shoot and you cry (exagg.).

The nice thing about the LAJ is that you can use the same blade for a few other planes...in other words, you can swap blades with different angles.

And I agree with Jamie that using a low-angle jack plane on a shooting board is indeed yesteryear. One has to use the LAJ and the the Veritas shooting plane (skew bed) side by side to know the true difference.

Simon

[Hasin Haroon]

Hi Chris,

I have the Veritas Low Angle Jack and the Lie Nielsen No. 62 (also have the Veritas shooting plane, which is the best out of all for shooting, but since you didn't ask about it I won't go there). Out of the two, the Veritas is the better purchase. I love my Lie Nielsen No. 62, but for the price (both roughly the same price), the functionality of the Veritas is better, the quality of both is equal, and aesthetically the Lie Nielsen is better. I hope this helps you pick based on what is most important to you. Both are still great planes, and if you only ever used the Lie Nielsen No. 62 you could live happily in ignorance of the improvements provided by Veritas.

[Mark Gibney]

Could the Stanley low angle jack be modified to take blade holding screws?
Could one drill and tap holes in the side of the body on either side of the blade, and use set screws to position the blade?

I have the Lie Nielsen #62, great plane and the blade is stable, so this is just a "what if" question to those of you more mechanically gifted than I am.

[Hasin Haroon]

Hi Mark, you could, but why bother? I wouldn't consider doing that, and you certainly don't need the set screws, though they do add convenience.

[Patrick Chase]

Could the Stanley low angle jack be modified to take blade holding screws?
Could one drill and tap holes in the side of the body on either side of the blade, and use set screws to position the blade?

I have the Lie Nielsen #62, great plane and the blade is stable, so this is just a "what if" question to those of you more mechanically gifted than I am.

Yes, almost certainly. I don't think that the sidewalls of that plane present any constraints that would present you from doing so.

With that said I don't think that those screws add all that much to usability in a bench plane (and I say this as somebody who owns most of the planes that LV makes). When you're starting out it's nice to not have to worry about the blade "walking" from side to side as you try to adjust it, but that's easy to deal with after a little practice.

If I were going to modify a Stanley plane to have those screws it would be something like a 92, where the blade positioning is critical and the screws save you from having to align the iron to the sides every time you sharpen.

[Phil Mueller]

You are right, Patrick. Thank you for the correction!

[Derek Cohen]

Could the Stanley low angle jack be modified to take blade holding screws?
Could one drill and tap holes in the side of the body on either side of the blade, and use set screws to position the blade?

I have the Lie Nielsen #62, great plane and the blade is stable, so this is just a "what if" question to those of you more mechanically gifted than I am.

Mark, I have done this with a few planes in the past. Here is one ..


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/GalootSmootherII_html_m4966ec28.jpg

The set screws were made from brass machine screws. Cut of the heads and grind a slot.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/GalootSmootherII_html_1a0e81c7.jpg

BU infill smoother.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark Gibney]

Patrick - the 92, yes, I could see this plane could use set screws. Some reported the Stanley low angle jack's cap iron didn't hold the blade satisfactorily, so maybe set screw would be useful? Or if you're mechanically set up, maybe make a new cap iron?

Derek, very nice plane.

[Stewie Simpson]

Next time you remove the blade assembly from a Stanley Block Plane, note the raised tabs that are cast into both inner side walls to centre the blades position within the mouth opening.

[Patrick Chase]

Mark, I have done this with a few planes in the past. Here is one ..

Nice plane!



The set screws were made from brass machine screws. Cut of the heads and grind a slot.

Wow, that is a really time-consuming way to acquire a commodity fastener (https://www.mcmaster.com/#brass-set-screws/=1a00bjq) :-).

[Jim Koepke]

Wow, that is a really time-consuming way to acquire a commodity fastener :-).

In my case there are likely a few laying around.

But if it was me in the early hours of the morning working on something like this and there wasn't one in my piles of fasteners, then making my own would likely be my choice over waiting for one in the mail.

jtk

[Chris Parks]

Nice plane!



Wow, that is a really time-consuming way to acquire a commodity fastener (https://www.mcmaster.com/#brass-set-screws/=1a00bjq) :-).

We don't have the luxury of McMaster Carr in Oz and definitely not in Perth, I wish they would open a branch down here, I will be their first customer.

[Derek Cohen]

But if it was me in the early hours of the morning working on something like this and there wasn't one in my piles of fasteners, then making my own would likely be my choice over waiting for one in the mail

Right, Jim. When I was a youngster, my favourite show was about the inventions, especially those of farmers, who built what they had to from salvage lying around. I just loved their creativity. Now this learning process was all the more curious when you realise that the show was on radio, since we did not have TV! :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tommy Martin]

I also wrestled with the LN vs LV low angle jack. I decided for the LV for one very good reason. The LAJ, the low angle jointer and the bevel up smoother all use the same 2.25 blade. I have all three and multiple blades at different angles and toothed blade. Because they all interchange I have few blades but great flexibility. The LV is a bit heavier and wider I believe. If I were only getting a low angle jack, The LN is just more beautiful. Both function quite well. Shooting with an older Stanley 7 is a good alternative.

[Patrick Chase]

I also wrestled with the LN vs LV low angle jack. I decided for the LV for one very good reason. The LAJ, the low angle jointer and the bevel up smoother all use the same 2.25 blade.

The shooter also takes that iron :-).

[Matt Lau]

Hey Chris,

Wait for Cyber Monday. I'm pretty sure that Lee Valley will have a few factory second LA jacks at the crack of midnight.
My LA jack was my first good plane, and holds a dear place in my heart.

It'll probably run you a bit under $200, but will be much nicer than the Sweetheart (much beefier, more precise).
IMHO, it's nicer than the Lie Nielson version too.

[Prashun Patel]

Or order now and take advantage of free shipping (until Nov 4)

[Chris Stephenson]

Guys, after much deliberation, I broke down and bit the bullet. Made in just in time for the last day of free shipping, pulled the trigger on the dedicated shooting plane from LV in PM-11. Now the wait begins as it is on back order until Nov 30th

Hopefully the misses doesn't see the receipt on this one.