Bench planes: Cast iron versus forged steel?

[Kurtis Johnson]

I have a full contingency of cast iron Stanley bench planes, but I've long been intrigued about forged steel planes. I come acrossed them now and again, like one Jack I recently came accorded with "VBM" on the cap—which obviously stands for Very Best Made, but not sure is the brand. It fell five feet onto a concrete floor at my friends shop, narrowly missing his foot, yet the plane sustained not a dent or scratch. There is at least one other brand. Seems these planes ought to be at a premium, but they are cheap on the auction sites as they are virtually unknown and not Stanley. Anyone have experience with forged steel bench planes? What are the pros and cons of this alloy versus the iron element construction? Weight? Vibration? Chatter? I'm interested in thoughts on these, and especially from those with knowledge and experience with them.

[Patrick Chase]

I have a full contingency of cast iron Stanley bench planes, but I've long been intrigued about forged steel planes. I come acrossed them now and again, like one Jack I recently came accorded with "VBM" on the cap—which obviously stands for Very Best Made, but not sure is the brand. It fell five feet onto a concrete floor at my friends shop, narrowly missing his foot, yet the plane sustained not a dent or scratch. There is at least one other brand. Seems these planes ought to be at a premium, but they are cheap on the auction sites as they are virtually unknown and not Stanley. Anyone have experience with forged steel bench planes? What are the pros and cons of this alloy versus the iron element construction? Weight? Vibration? Chatter? I'm interested in thoughts on these, and especially from those with knowledge and experience with them.

One obvious downside for the manufacturer would have been manufacturing cost, and particularly the expense of secondary machining for the sole/sides/frog/etc. I don't know whether that translated to less machined surface area or lower precision for any of the planes that were actually made, though.

Stanley produced steel versions of the 4 (#S4) and 5 (#S5), and at least some of those were forged.

Modern manufacturers seem to have resorted to ductile iron instead to address the same fragility issues. I suspect that may be because of the aforementioned cost challenges.

[Jim Koepke]

Many of the steel planes were made for high school shop classes and other environments where things are subject to abuse.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Vaughn & Bushnell 900 series I think were forged steel, not cast iron.

Stanley had an S4 and and S5 steel soled plane....along with that block plane.

I picked a Shelton N0. 18 all steel block plane last week...

[Kurtis Johnson]

One obvious downside for the manufacturer would have been manufacturing cost, and particularly the expense of secondary machining for the sole/sides/frog/etc. I don't know whether that translated to less machined surface area or lower precision for any of the planes that were actually made, though.
That's what I was assuming. A much more expensive process.


Modern manufacturers seem to have resorted to ductile iron instead to address the same fragility issues. I suspect that may be because of the aforementioned cost challenges.Ductile iron. Of course. As used in LVs and LNs.

So, strictly from a user standpoint, what's most desirable? Cast iron, forged steel, or ductile iron?

[Kurtis Johnson]

Vaughn & Bushnell 900 series I think were forged steel, not cast iron.

Stanley had an S4 and and S5 steel soled plane....along with that block plane.

I picked a Shelton N0. 18 all steel block plane last week...Interesting I've overlooked the S4 and S5 over the years. How do they compare user wise? Anyone?

How do you like your No. 18? I've always liked those and I'm sure I'll pick one up some day, though I don't really need one as I'm set with block planes. Guess that would make me a collector then, LOL!

[Kurtis Johnson]

Many of the steel planes were made for high school shop classes and other environments where things are subject to abuse.

jtkMy shop is my garage. I'll eventually put in a small section of plywood floor beyond the reach of the car, but it's concrete at the moment. The forged steel appeals in the meantime. But mildly.

[Mike Holbrook]

Found on Time Tested Tools, Forum, which I use as my source for Sargent hand planes. I tried looked for a VBM for a while....

"Sargent Type (http://www.timetestedtools.net/sargent-400-series-bench-plane-type-study/)— — 5400 Series (http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/27/typing-sargent-bench-planes-400-series-type-5400-series/)
Type 5400 series…………….(1907-1910)
The 5400 is a Type 2 or Type 3 that Sargent corrugated prior to them becoming VBM."................

"Type 4…………….(1910-1918)
**A type 3 cap. (Sargent with VBM under it) ( the cap dates 1910-1918)
http://www.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/image_thumb-7.png (http://www.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/image-7.png)
**Its got a type 3 cutter (1910-1918)
|Sargent|
No.|V-B-M|409
New Haven CT. USA
**One piece yoke
**Plane number behind frog
**brass knob and tote nuts (13/32″ in diameter)
**BrassAdjuster knob
**Sargent stamped behind knob
** Right handed depth adjuster nut
** East India Mahogany knob and tote (low knob)
http://www.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/clip_image002_thumb-4.png (http://www.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/clip_image002-4.png)"

Probably made from parts that are hard to date due to the confusing parts used to make up these planes, in a transitional time period.

[don wilwol]

Sargent bench planes were cast. They never made anything else. If you have a VBM that fell that far and didn't break, your either really really lucky, or you have a VBM cap on a V&B plane.

[brian zawatsky]

I’ve had and sold a few Vaughn & Bushnell 900 series planes over the last few years, and once cleaned up and sharpened they seemed to perform well. V&Bs were modeled after the Stanley Bedrock series, right down to the design of the frog & frog seat. The machining on the few that I handled was well done. The planes’ bodies were drop forged and nickel plated, and on every example I’ve seen the plating is almost always peeling off. Knob & tote were mahogany. I didn’t keep any as daily users, so I can’t attest to how well they hold settings.

[Mike Brady]

Vaughan & Bushnell planes were made in Chicago, a town not generally known for it's tool making. I think of them more as collector planes than users, but the quality was certainly apparent. Never have taken a shaving with one.

[Mike Henderson]

The problem with cast iron planes is that if one falls off your bench, especially to a concrete floor, it will crack. I lost a Bailey #4 type 11 that way.

The Vaughan and Bushnell forged steel planes are good - I have several. If you go to buy, look for the 900 series (904, 905, etc.) and not the 700 or 800 series. V&B used to have an advertisement where they dropped ane of their planes off of a multi-story building onto the concrete sidewalk and it didn't crack.

V&B planes have the ramped frog mount, same as the Bedrock planes. They also have the flat top sides like the Bedrock.

Mike

[The modern planes are made from malleable cast iron or steel, neither of which will crack as easily as the old Stanley planes of cast iron.]

[steven c newman]

As for the #18....
370169
It's a Low Angle sort of..15 degrees, instead of 12.
370170
No adjustable mouth, wasn't much to do with the sole..
370171
Otherwise, not too bad of a little block plane
370172
This spent day or two at the house, while enroute to DonW...
370173
Stanley S4...picked at a garage sale.owner had a thing for spraying black paint..
370174
Yep...even did this to a Bedrock #606...
370175
Yep, gold paint on the pins, too....
370176
And along the outside....

[Patrick Chase]

Ductile iron. Of course. As used in LVs and LNs.

So, strictly from a user standpoint, what's most desirable? Cast iron, forged steel, or ductile iron?

This is totally nit-picky, but ductile iron is cast. The distinction is between cast grey iron (as in the old Stanleys and modern Cliftons) and cast ductile iron (LV, LN, WR, etc).

As to which is "better", if you're in the habit of dropping your tools a lot then steel will be hard to beat. Ductile iron doesn't crack, but it's...well...ductile and will tend to deform more than steel when abused. The catch is that AFAIK you can't get many newly-made tools with steel
, and even the old ones are relatively rare. If there were new tools they'd probably cost an arm and a leg.

I'd say that if you apply reasonable diligence to avoid dropping your tools then ductile iron has the best balance of attributes (cost, availability, durability). It will sustain more damage in a drop, but assuming that doesn't happen very often the resulting repair (filing, lapping, etc) time will be cheap compared to the incremental cost of all-steel tools.


There are exceptions like the LV Little Victor (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=56665&cat=1,41182) and Squirrel Tail (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57205&cat=1,41182) planes, but they tend to be small. Note also that they lap the soles of those planes flat in the same manner as their irons, which may reflect the cost/difficulty of machining them.

[Patrick Chase]

Many of the steel planes were made for high school shop classes and other environments where things are subject to abuse.

Interestingly there is no S5-1/4. Maybe the shop programs were too cheap to pay for the steel tools? :-)