140 Trick

[ken hatch]

Ralph over at The Accidental Woodworker blog had a couple of questions about the "140 trick". I answered them on my blog but figured the answers might be of general interest so I will kinda crosspost here. BTW, if you do not follow Ralph and his blog, you should. He is close to 100% Neander and his productivity puts most of us to shame. Anyway here is my post on the 140 trick:

Using a #140 Block plane to make a shallow rebate on the back of the tail board is called the 140 trick. I'm sure it was done before Alan Peters used it but he popularized it.


The reasons the 140 Block plane works so well is two fold, the side plate is removable exposing the slewed cutter and it has a fence. The plane has a nicker as well which I do not normally use. Here is a photo of my 140 with the side plate removed and, I doubt you can see it, the cutter is extended a thin red one pass the side of the plane.

369837

I will normally use a TiteMark wheel gauge to mark the base line because the 140's fence will register on the board's end as does the TiteMark. Setting the TiteMark. after gross setting I will give the micro-adjuster an 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn clockwise to deepen the baseline. I like the pins and tails to be slightly proud.

369840

Next is deepening the base lines. I do this "freehand" with a marking knife.

369841

Set the fence so the cutter just touches the near edge of the base line mark.

369842

Take a couple or three passes until the rebate "looks about right".

369843

Mark and cut your tails however you would normally cut tails. After the tails are cut, set the tail board on the pin board and aline the reference edges with a chisel. Mark your pins and if nothing moves and you saw and chisel correctly you should have a near perfect dovetail joint.

369844

As always....Click 'em to big 'em.

ken

[Patrick Chase]

Probably obvious, but this trick should work with just about any rabbet plane.

The 140's small size makes it nice for small work and also to keep the depth of the rabbet uniform if/when the wood isn't flat across the grain. Taking this to absurd lengths, there's no reason why you couldn't use a "10-1/4 trick" on larger parts, again assuming they're sufficiently flat.

[Lonnie Gallaher]

Ken,

I am curious, you have two torpedo levels on your bench what you use them for?

[ken hatch]

Probably obvious, but this trick should work with just about any rabbet plane.

The 140's small size makes it nice for small work and also to keep the depth of the rabbet uniform if/when the wood isn't flat across the grain. Taking this to absurd lengths, there's no reason why you couldn't use a "10-1/4 trick" on larger parts, again assuming they're sufficiently flat.

Then it wouldn't be the 140 trick, would it :D.

As you pointed out most rabbet planes would work, LV makes a fenced block plane that I've used but the LN 140 is easier to set up. I've also used a snipes bill and a unfenced rabbet plane as well. I expect with enough skill all you need is a chisel. Then the question becomes "why".

ken

[ken hatch]

Ken,

I am curious, you have two torpedo levels on your bench what you use them for?

Lonnie,

I use the torpedo levels to check that my board is setting level before sawing it, makes it easier to saw vertical lines that way. Two? Just because sometimes one will end up somewhere else.

ken

[Jim Koepke]

Before this became the 140 trick, some called it the rabbet trick. Just imagine back to the days before the #140 was on the market and don't forget the plane didn't have a fence until Rob Lee put one on it. (If someone else is responsible for the #140 fence, I am sorry for any slight and will edit this if notified soon enough.)

It has some useful benefits and it has at least one pitfall. One has to take care about the depth of the rabbets or they can throw a piece out of square. This is fairly minor or course unless a plane is taking some thick shavings. A rabbet plane with a depth stop is helpful. Set it to the thickness of 2 or 3 business cards or one credit card and all should be good.

It can cover base line gaps on the inside of the joint. It won't hide sloppy sawing or chisel work.

The rabbet trick (140 trick) helps in aligning the tail board to the pin board. If the end of your workpiece isn't dead square, neither will the finished work. The joint may be square in two dimensions, but the third is just as important.

To me this is a helpful trick somewhat like training wheels. For better alignment in the past my framing square was used. Recently a different square was made to align the tail board to a pin board for marking:

369851

This has worked well and given me an idea of having a side bar for alignment on a Moxon vise if I ever get a round tuit. It wouldn't have to be on the side. Maybe a rabbet into which a guide bar could be inserted. Still mulling it over in my mind.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

Before this became the 140 trick, some called it the rabbet trick. Just imagine back to the days before the #140 was on the market and don't forget the plane didn't have a fence until Rob Lee put one on it. (If someone else is responsible for the #140 fence, I am sorry for any slight and will edit this is notified soon enough.)

Fences are nice, but battens aren't *that* onerous :-).

In my experience battens also tend to be a bit safer/easier for people who aren't used to working with fence-guided planes.

[Mike Allen1010]

Thanks Ken for sharing this super practical tip for getting square dovetails. Even though you're too modest to mention it, I heartily recommend your own blog "I'm an OK Guy" as a thoroughly enjoyable discussion of hand tool woodworking, road trips and Mexican food.


Back to the 140 tip: I've always been impressed by the ability of preindustrial woodworker's to expeditiously execute fine furniture with hand tools. In my old age I've made an effort to speed up my projects by streamlining my technique to focus time on only those skills/techniques that make a visible difference in the finished product. IMHO, the tip you described is is an excellent example of a technique that yields a great return for the time invested, particularly for dovetailing carcasses/larger components where misalignment of pins/tail boards can result in significant, compounding errors.


Cheers, Mike

[ken hatch]

Thanks Ken for sharing this super practical tip for getting square dovetails. Even though you're too modest to mention it, I heartily recommend your own blog "I'm an OK Guy" as a thoroughly enjoyable discussion of hand tool woodworking, road trips and Mexican food.


Back to the 140 tip: I've always been impressed by the ability of preindustrial woodworker's to expeditiously execute fine furniture with hand tools. In my old age I've made an effort to speed up my projects by streamlining my technique to focus time on only those skills/techniques that make a visible difference in the finished product. IMHO, the tip you described is is an excellent example of a technique that yields a great return for the time invested, particularly for dovetailing carcasses/larger components where misalignment of pins/tail boards can result in significant, compounding errors.


Cheers, Mike

Mike you are too kind.

I'm doing much the same including making simpler builds.

Making the rebate is so easy and solves so many problems for me it is a no brainer....at least until I forget to do it before sawing the tails :p.

ken

[Jim Koepke]

Making the rebate is so easy and solves so many problems for me it is a no brainer....at least until I forget to do it before sawing the tails :p.

It worked fine for me the few times it was tried. Like you, my tails often get cut before remembering to cut the rabbet.

jtk

[steven c newman]

I don't have a 140, and I do pins first.....trick doesn't help much for the way I do things.....

[Jim Koepke]

I don't have a 140, and I do pins first.....trick doesn't help much for the way I do things.....

It might help square up the pin board when you mark the tails.

jtk

[James Waldron]

I don't have a 140, and I do pins first.....trick doesn't help much for the way I do things.....

Just goes to show: pins first is just wrong! So very wrong! :rolleyes:

[Hat? check. Coat? check. Car keys? check. I'm outa here.]

[steven c newman]

And...then the tails will be too thin....

[Patrick Chase]

Just goes to show: pins first is just wrong! So very wrong! :rolleyes:

[Hat? check. Coat? check. Car keys? check. I'm outa here.]

Really, there should be some sort of law against doing pins first. It's a crime against both nature and logic.

[Jim Koepke]

Really, there should be some sort of law against doing pins first. It's a crime against both nature and logic.

While practicing dovetails my joints came out with less gaps when they were done pins first.

It was a real incentive to do better when cutting the tails first.

My suggestion is for people to try multiple times both pins first and tails first. You may not like the pins first, but they may show you something you missed to help you do better tails first.

jtk

[steven c newman]

No. I do, however have a knifed in line back there, made with a square and a knife. I mark the thickness of the board, by using the board itself,...just a short, little mark. Then the square and knife go all the way around. I stand the pin board up onto the tail board, mark the pins' locations...the saw out the waste, leaving the lines.

Ben a lot of practice at doing it this way....no need a for a crutch. yMMV

[Jim Koepke]

Ben a lot of practice at doing it this way....no need a for a crutch. yMMV

As said earlier:


To me this is a helpful trick somewhat like training wheels.

The apprentice asked the master, "are there any tricks you can teach me to do great dovetails?"

The master said, "yes there are three, practice, practice and practice.

jtk

[ken hatch]

It is not a crutch, It is merely one of many techniques to help the transfer of tail to pin board. Some of the others but not all are using squares, the "Dave Barron jig", using fingers and eye, practice and practice, doing pins first and just not giving a damn how the joint looks. Funny thing is all work and the prettiest joint of the group most likely isn't stronger than the ugliest most snaggletoothed one.

I've tried most ways to mark over the years, cutting a shallow rebate on the tail board has given the most consistent results and the effort to make that rebate is minimum. Can I find other ways to screw up the joint, you bet but miss-marking usually isn't one of them.

ken

[Jim Koepke]

Spent a few hours today in the shop and one thing came to mind about a big advantage to cutting dovetails pins first. If the person is a good sawyer with a good eye, they can cut the pins with just a base line and then mark the tails for cutting. This could likely save a bit of time.

jtk

[Pat Barry]

Really, there should be some sort of law against doing pins first. It's a crime against both nature and logic.
You need a good imagination to do pins first.

[James Waldron]

Spent a few hours today in the shop and one thing came to mind about a big advantage to cutting dovetails pins first. If the person is a good sawyer with a good eye, they can cut the pins with just a base line and then mark the tails for cutting. This could likely save a bit of time.

jtk

With a good eye, one can do the same cutting tails first. With the 140 trick, the base line is already marked, if that technique is used. If not, cut to a base line scribed on the board.

For me, though, the biggest advantage of tails first is the ability to clamp the pin board vertically and lay the tail board on top of the pin end. By using a bit of care, alignment and squaring the layout of the pins is quick and easy. The 140 trick is sometimes helpful with the layout.

When cutting pins first I have not found a comparably stable and accurate way to manage good alignment with the pin board waving about in mid-air above the tail board.

In my experience, I can consistently make boxes or drawers that will sit flat on my bench top with no twist using tails first and my alignment procedure. When I have used pins first in the past, twist was always a risk and gaps much more frequent.

My life has been better since I gave up playing around with pins first.

I don't ordinarily use the 140 trick for shop furniture and such, but when I'm using Honduras mahogany or teak - particularly Burmese teak - I sure as hell do. My eyesight ain't what it once was. When sawing my pins I've been known to nick my base line, and the 140 trick can provide good camouflage when that happens. (So far, I don't have over-cutting problems with tails when I use the 140 trick, as the shoulder of the rebate is easy to see as a stopping point for the back surface and the base line is easy to see on the front of the cut.)

[Jim Koepke]

For me, though, the biggest advantage of tails first is the ability to clamp the pin board vertically and lay the tail board on top of the pin end.

An easy way to align the pin board to the tail board is to place a piece of scrap vertically in a vise or clamped to the bench. Butt the tail board up against it. Set the pin board on the tail board and clamp it to the vertical piece.

This brings to mind a line in the movie RED, "for every problem Monsieur there is a solution."


My life has been better since I gave up playing around with pins first.

This is why my suggestion is for people to try both methods multiple times. Then choose the way that works best for them. Like so many things there are many ways to proceed and they are all valid.

One of my personal observations is cutting pins first requires better skill at sawing.

jtk

[steven c newman]

369946
Done pins first....

[James Pallas]

I'm not coming down on either side of this age old contest. I do have some questions to ask. How do you layout your dovetails on a lipped drawer. For myself I go pins first. I understand only from reading articles that one of the premier woodworking schools in the country teaches pins first. Why do they do that? Isn't it easier to square the pins than the tails? All those questions asked I usually mark the pins from the tails in most work.
Jim

[James Waldron]

I'm not coming down on either side of this age old contest. I do have some questions to ask. How do you layout your dovetails on a lipped drawer. For myself I go pins first. I understand only from reading articles that one of the premier woodworking schools in the country teaches pins first. Why do they do that? Isn't it easier to square the pins than the tails? All those questions asked I usually mark the pins from the tails in most work.
Jim

For all the (very infrequent) lipped drawers I've made, I've made a drawer box with through dovetails and added a false front. I can often conserve the amount of fine stock used for drawer fronts by using thinner false fronts rather than full thickness fronts. And easier build, good economics and conservation of resources: what's not to like?