dados with LV combination plane in the middle of the board

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I am thinking about cutting some stopped dados in the middle of a wide board.

Based on my time frame (I am ready to cut them now) and my finances (huge dental bills and my car died unexpectedly), I am likely to do this with a saw, chisel, and perhaps a router plane. I don't own a router plane, so I might buy one or borrow one (talking about your Chris).

I will admit that this plane seems like a great idea, but not sure that I always want to cut 1/2 inch.
https://www.hntgordon.com.au/gidgee-block-planes/product/108-gidgee-1-2-dado-plane-with-ts-blade.html

That brings me to the new Veritas Combination plane:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/hardware/page.aspx?p=75620&cat=1,41182,48945&ap=1

What I like about the Veritas Combination plane is that it looks to support all sorts of nice things. It looks to be relatively simple to setup, but I am guessing that is has a bit of a learning curve in actual use.

What really concerns me for my particular use, is that I don't see that I an easily plow a dado in the middle of a wide board. With the Gidgee plane or if I use a saw, I can setup a fence and run things along the "fence"; when I say fence, I probably mean something like a 2x4. Is this possible with the Veritas Combination Plane?

Also, any particular challenges when dealing with a stopped, rather than a through dado.

I considered showing up at Steven's place. Then again, I think that he usually does this using his combination plane, and would have the same problem that concerns me related to the Veritas Combination Plane.

I have also read:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?218504-Questions-about-dado-planes (including Derek's web site)

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Andrew,

Before getting into how my stopped dados are cut here is a post of mine about stopped cuts with a combination plane:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?257497-Stopped-Cuts-With-a-Combination-Plane

The depth of cut is increased by adjusting the blade while the skates of the combination plane stay out of the cut.

Variations of this could be used for stopped cuts with the Veritas Combination Plane. Most likely it would need a batten to guide the plane. It might be possible to set up a fixed batten to register both sides if the dados are for shelves or such. Then the sides could be moved together for the next dado.

For me it always seemed quicker to mark the sides together and then chop out a bit of relief for saw dust at the stopped end, then saw, chisel and router plane out the waste.

Of course, 369685

One more thing... For cleaner edges use a chisel smaller than the width of your dado to clear the waste.

jtk

[David Bassett]

I am thinking about cutting some stopped dados in the middle of a wide board.

Based on my time frame (I am ready to cut them now) and my finances (huge dental bills and my car died unexpectedly), I am likely to do this with a saw, chisel, and perhaps a router plane. I don't own a router plane, so I might buy one or borrow one....

Saw, chisel, and router plane is a very traditional method. Since you're working with a limited budget, maybe your best bet is "sweat equity". Go with the tools you have and make yourself a simple router plane. (Plans here, and all over the web I'm sure, and it is a fairly simple tool at it's core. Some wood, a hex key, some way to grind & sharpen, and either a wedge or bolt & collar. IIRC.)

Oh, I would smooth (and square) that 2x4 before using it as a batten.



... What I like about the Veritas Combination plane is that it looks to support all sorts of nice things. It looks to be relatively simple to setup, but I am guessing that is has a bit of a learning curve in actual use. ...

Very versatile, but also big bucks and fiddly to set up. (See several threads here.) The folks who like it and praise it's precision are comparing it to previous combo planes, it still has limitations and requires care to setup and use.

Good luck!

[Jim Koepke]

I can setup a fence and run things along the "fence"; when I say fence, I probably mean something like a 2x4. Is this possible with the Veritas Combination Plane?

Hmm, a 2x4 is a bit tall to use as a batten. Usually a batten would have the skate or base of a rabbet plane riding against it until the dado becomes deep enough to no longer need a batten.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

Before getting into how my stopped dados are cut here is a post of mine about stopped cuts with a combination plane:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?257497-Stopped-Cuts-With-a-Combination-Plane

The depth of cut is increased by adjusting the blade while the skates of the combination plane stay out of the cut.

I wouldn't recommend that technique unless you're already experienced with a combo like Jim is. These are already somewhat tricky planes to use, and doing that ups the degree of difficulty. I've tried it since reading Jim's article, and in addition to the obvious issues with [lack of] blade bedding it's (IMO) more difficult to control the plane when forces are centered significantly below the sole/skate like that.

[steven c newman]

369688
Dig up an area back from the stopped part, long enough for the front end of one of these planes. Stanley did make a #39 1/2" Dado plane. Mine cuts 3/8" wide
369690
Still needs a batten, until the plane gets into the "groove" better...then I can also move the batten a bit, to widen the dado...

[Mike Brady]

I go along with Patrick's thinking on the stopped dado. After making a couple of dadoes (through, not stopped) with a new combination plane that was set up by the owner, I concluded that I would not use that means to make a dado in valuable finish stock. There is just too much chance for error. I can't imagine how a stopped dado would even be attempted since the skate has to travel into the depth of the cut. My dream method would be just scoring and roughing the cut with a chisel and then using a shoulder plane and/or router plane and side rabbet planes to finish it. Unfortunately, I don't have all of those planes yet. I have to use a power router to make dadoes.

[Rick Malakoff]

Andrew, how many stopped dados are we talking about?
Rick

[Jim Koepke]

I go along with Patrick's thinking on the stopped dado. After making a couple of dadoes (through, not stopped) with a new combination plane that was set up by the owner, I concluded that I would not use that means to make a dado in valuable finish stock. There is just too much chance for error. I can't imagine how a stopped dado would even be attempted since the skate has to travel into the depth of the cut. My dream method would be just scoring and roughing the cut with a chisel and then using a shoulder plane and/or router plane and side rabbet planes to finish it. Unfortunately, I don't have all of those planes yet. I have to use a power router to make dadoes.

Mike,

Other than the chance for error were there any other reasons in your decision to not use that means to make a dado?

Did the sides of the dado end up clean and crisp?

Some do a stopped dado by chopping out part of the waste at the stopped end.

The other method mentioned in my earlier post is theoretical on dados. My use of it has not been tried on a dado. One problem is the nickers wouldn't be able to cut the sides to prevent tear out. That could be done with a knife. The stopped cut method described works well when going with the grain and using a fence.

Here is another thread with some more explanation. Down the page in post #7 there is a picture of me cutting two pieces together and some comments on what was learned.

jtk

[steven c newman]

One other method, if you will, is to start the dado at the stopped end, and work back. May involve a couple saw cuts at the dado's exit. Work your way back towards the stopping point, then finish with the chisels.
369760
Basically what I did with this rebate for a back. Far end was not stopped, near end had to be. I worked my way back towards the stop point, then finished up with a chisel.

[Mike Brady]

To clarify, the use of a combination plane would not be my choice for making dadoes in a furniture-quality build. Picture a case side with two stopped dadoes meant to secure two wide shelves. I think that the risk of spoiling a length of costly hardwood such as a case-side would lead me to a method that I have more confidence in. Through-dadoes would be a different story; but there I would score the sides and the ends of the dado in advance of using the nickers . The nickers on the plane I used were not very reliable for maintaining crisp walls in the dado. I fully acknowledge that there is a large user-error factor in my experience.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Andrew, how many stopped dados are we talking about?
Rick

About 12, each roughly 13 inches long.

Typically I have simply used my table saw, but then I don't try to make a stopped dado. Well, OK, I did make a stopped dado on the table saw and then I finished it up with a chisel since I do not yet own a router plane.

I do own a router, and I could certainly use that, just build a jig to contain the router then make a pass or two and done. Given the use, I would not even need to clean up the rounded edge since I intend to insert dividers or shelves into these. Last time I did this, I made a through cut. It does not look too bad, but, it would look better if I had made a stopped cut.

[Patrick Chase]

I can't imagine how a stopped dado would even be attempted since the skate has to travel into the depth of the cut.

To be clear, Jim's technique keeps the skate[s] on the surface of the stock and uses blade extension to "reach" into the dado. That's what makes it an advanced, not-for-combo-newbies technique IMO :-).

[Stewie Simpson]

With the plane set up for making stopped cuts, the blade holding bolt is not fully tightened. This allows the blade to be adjusted deeper for each cut. Advancing the blade a quarter to a half turn for each cut worked well. Be aware that the blade will be moved by the force of cutting and may move to one side. The blade should be checked and reset as needed with each cut.

What a pain to deal with.

[Jim Koepke]

What a pain to deal with.

Once one gets started it is actually easy to push against the blade with a finger as it is being adjusted for the next cut. The early #45 had a nub on the skate that might have taken care of this. The #55 has a screw that can be inserted in the skate to align the blade when making cuts requiring adjustment between passes.

It may be a pain the first few times one gives it a try. It becomes an easy routine after a short while.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

My preferred method for a stopped dado is a knifed line, chisel to excavate waste, and router plane to level off. It is quick and safe.

If one plans on a face frame, or edge strip, then plane a through dado with the plane of your choice. Mine is the 1/2" HNT Gordon, since it is set to go, and I have been using it for several years.

Regards from Perth

Derek