Chisels for Chopping

[ken hatch]

A comment by a friend on a different venue started a self dialog. The jumping off point was a question about the new production Stanley 750 chisels. While the 750's are not my favorite for general use they are for any chopping not requiring the use of a pig sticker. BTW, I expect anything said about the 750's would also apply to the LN Bench chisels.

What makes the 750 a good chopping chisel is the combination of a socket and the Hornbeam handle with iron that will stand up to some abuse. The chisel is also "short".

No need to go into socket vs. tang when chopping, a socket is better suited. The Hornbeam handle is the key, it is almost as indestructible as one of the yellow plastic ones. I've had a set of the new Stanley's almost from the get go and have whacked away at 'em with abandon and whatever hammer/mallet was at hand and none of the handles show the slightest signs of abuse. Short is personal, I like a short handle on a chopping chisel. I feel it gives better control. The iron on the "new" 750's is kinda average not something to write home about but holds up well to abuse. I would expect the LN version sharpened to a 35 degree secondary bevel would be better than "kinda average".

Anyway, bottom line, the "new" Stanley 750 chisels are my go to chopping chisels for the reasons stated. What's yours?

ken

P.S. Can you tell I'm at lose ends while waiting for tomorrow's back surgery. Not much to do other than sit at the computer and sip whisky (slipping whisky ain't all bad :)). Shop activities are very limited...Sharpening iron and making practice joints are about it and even that is limited.

[James Pallas]

Ken, I wish you well with your back surgery. The docs know so much more now. I consider myself a bit of an expert after 30 + years of it. Best advice I can give is to follow the directions to the letter, rehab and all. After spending long hours at rehab centers most of the problems I have seen or heard about come from people feeling so much better that they jump the gun on activities. My problem can't be fixed by surgery so I now have a spinal cord stimulator. I'm sure I would not be walking without it but I would rather not have had to have it put in. To you and others TAKE CARE OF YOUR BACK.
Jim

[ken hatch]

Ken, I wish you well with your back surgery. The docs know so much more now. I consider myself a bit of an expert after 30 + years of it. Best advice I can give is to follow the directions to the letter, rehab and all. After spending long hours at rehab centers most of the problems I have seen or heard about come from people feeling so much better that they jump the gun on activities. My problem can't be fixed by surgery so I now have a spinal cord stimulator. I'm sure I would not be walking without it but I would rather not have had to have it put in. To you and others TAKE CARE OF YOUR BACK.
Jim

Jim,

I'm sorry to hear yours can't be fixed. If your pain level before the stimulator was like mine, and I'm sure it was, it is totally debilitating. I'm lucky mine is very fixable, just a little rotorooting and back like new. Kinda. As I've said before whisky and pain pills are no way to live.

ken

[James Pallas]

Ken I just feel so bad for people because I know what it's like. I've had some major things, heart attack, broken bones,etc. Nothing comes close to back issues. When people ask I try to explain it with "It's like stubbing your little toe and then just keep doing that over and over again". When my wife would ask I would call it frantic so she would know that I was not able to move or talk or anything. Anymore I just automatically go to cringe mode when someone speaks of back trouble, my heart just goes out to them.
Jim

[Brian Holcombe]

Good luck with the surgery Ken, I've had my fair share so I certainly empathize with you!

[James Waldron]

[snip] (slipping whisky ain't all bad :)). [snip]

There's many a whisky that claims to be sipping whisky, but they ain't all good! Careful about your choice of whisky.

And best wishes for your repairs and rehab. Follow directions carefully. Ask questions if they aren't clear. And let us know how it's going.

Jim

[John C Cox]

I hope all goes to plan with your back. Its certainly no fun.

On chisels.. Stanley has offered very good steel and heat treatment even on their chisels.. Their current steel for the "not junk" is the British version of 52100.... About 1% C... It does quite well... Its not a super steel like the Veritas stuff by any means - but it's a whole lot better than the miscellaneous chewing gum so frequently seen in chisels under $15.00

If you need a chisel to bang on... One of the plastic handle Stanley chisels is a fine choice.

[Rick Malakoff]

Good luck tomorrow, never had any back problems other than sciatica a few times and that weren't no fun.
As for chisels, I have mortised many door hinges over the years with Stanley butt chisels with the black and yellow plastic handles, have some better ones but never took them to the job for fear of the chuckle heads picking one up and bringing it back looking a saw.
Rick

[Jim Koepke]

Hi Ken, Hopefully your medical situation will go smooth and have you back to doing the things you love.

My doctors had me restricted for ~5 months. It was hard not to go out to the shop and do something that would have been unapproved.

As for chopping chisels my choices are plentiful. Besides the various straight side chisels from various quality makers like Buck Brothers, Charles Buck, Swan & Witherby, there are a number of 'beater' chisels' in my shop that can do the job.

This is just one reason to buy those one and two dollar chisels at yard sales and such. Heck, some of those ugly ducklings have become good friends.

jtk

[James Pallas]

Good luck tomorrow, never had any back problems other than sciatica a few times and that weren't no fun.
As for chisels, I have mortised many door hinges over the years with Stanley butt chisels with the black and yellow plastic handles, have some better ones but never took them to the job for fear of the chuckle heads picking one up and bringing it back looking a saw.
Rick
I have used them for years. I still have a few. They are actually good chisels for the price. I always wished they were longer and not quite so handle heavy. I gave most of them to SIL. I recently ground a 1/4" one to 3/16" for a special use.
Jim

[ken hatch]

There's many a whisky that claims to be sipping whisky, but they ain't all good! Careful about your choice of whisky.

And best wishes for your repairs and rehab. Follow directions carefully. Ask questions if they aren't clear. And let us know how it's going.

Jim

Jim,

Ain't that the truth. Most Whiskey's taste about the same to my unsophisticated palate, slightly too sweet with a hint of fruit.

Single Malt Whisky is another story with a huge range of tastes from a slightly bland Macallan 12 to that of a Islay Whisky. Pick your mood and you can find a Whisky to match

ken

[ken hatch]

Hi Ken, Hopefully your medical situation will go smooth and have you back to doing the things you love.

My doctors had me restricted for ~5 months. It was hard not to go out to the shop and do something that would have been unapproved.

As for chopping chisels my choices are plentiful. Besides the various straight side chisels from various quality makers like Buck Brothers, Charles Buck, Swan & Witherby, there are a number of 'beater' chisels' in my shop that can do the job.

This is just one reason to buy those one and two dollar chisels at yard sales and such. Heck, some of those ugly ducklings have become good friends.

jtk

Jim,

This is bandaid surgery. The Doc said two small incisions, a little Dremel work and I'm out of there with a couple of Band-Aids on my back. I should be able to return to work in a couple or three weeks. I hope he is correct.

ken

[Patrick Chase]

Anyway, bottom line, the "new" Stanley 750 chisels are my go to chopping chisels for the reasons stated. What's yours?
My current favorites for chopping are a set of Japanese chisels with HAP-40 (~PM M4 HSS) edges. The hooped handles can take a lot of abuse, and they take a decently sharp edge and hold it forever.

The Veritas chisels also hold up surprisingly well IMO.



P.S. Can you tell I'm at lose ends while waiting for tomorrow's back surgery. Not much to do other than sit at the computer and sip whisky (slipping whisky ain't all bad :)). Shop activities are very limited...Sharpening iron and making practice joints are about it and even that is limited.

Best of luck with the surgery!

[Brian Holcombe]

Islay is my taste most of the time. I'm not much for Macallan but the older age statements are pretty solid.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Islay? ...Did someone say Islay?!
Oh, and best of outcomes with the surgery, Ken.

[Rick Malakoff]

My Stanley 1 1/2'' type 90, the only one left out of my original purchase some 40 years ago and the one that got used the most.
For comparison Buck Bros 1 1/2'' recently picked at the swap meet for a deuce, never been used or sharpened.
Rick
369401

[ken hatch]

Islay is my taste most of the time. I'm not much for Macallan but the older age statements are pretty solid.


Islay? ...Did someone say Islay?!
Oh, and best of outcomes with the surgery, Ken.

When my Whisky isn't just elevator music it will usually be either Lagavulin or Laphroaig. In fact there is a finger or two of Lagavulin in my glass as I type.....Life is good.

BTW, thanks to all for the best wishes.

Now tell me about your chopping chisels and why they are the ones you use. For mortises it is a no brainer, anything other than a pig sticker is doing it all wrong :). I also guess the other question is do you use different chisels to chop than the ones you use to pair? I'm thinking about dovetails. I use one chisel to pair and a different chisel tf I need to chop. When fitting I will bring in one of the Japanese White steel pairing chisels to trim the pins or even "true" the tails if needed. Meaning on a typical set of dovetails I will use at least 3 different types/makes of chisels. Anyone else do that?

ken

[Hasin Haroon]

Ken, all the best on your surgery tomorrow buddy.

I have the new 750s too (the set of 4) and I agree, they make good chisels for tough jobs like chopping and are built to take some abuse. The Lie Nielsens with A2s would keep their edge longer but the steel is still decent on the 750s. However the LN chisels feel a lot more refined, the steel has less mill marks and the lands are very fine, like the Veritas or Ashley Iles. Then again, the price difference reflects that for all of them but the Ashley Iles, which I don't believe would hold up to chopping quite as well.

[ken hatch]

Islay is my taste most of the time. I'm not much for Macallan but the older age statements are pretty solid.


Ken, all the best on your surgery tomorrow buddy.

I have the new 750s too (the set of 4) and I agree, they make good chisels for tough jobs like chopping and are built to take some abuse. The Lie Nielsens with A2s would keep their edge longer but the steel is still decent on the 750s. However the LN chisels feel a lot more refined, the steel has less mill marks and the lands are very fine, like the Veritas or Ashley Iles. Then again, the price difference reflects that for all of them but the Ashley Iles, which I don't believe would hold up to chopping quite as well.

Hasin,

I've used the Ashley Iles to chop dovetail waste and they work well but like you the new 750's are a better pick, save the AI's for the final pairing.

ken

[Brian Holcombe]

When my Whisky isn't just elevator music it will usually be either Lagavulin or Laphroaig. In fact there is a finger or two of Lagavulin in my glass as I type.....Life is good.

BTW, thanks to all for the best wishes.

Now tell me about your chopping chisels and why they are the ones you use. For mortises it is a no brainer, anything other than a pig sticker is doing it all wrong :). I also guess the other question is do you use different chisels to chop than the ones you use to pair? I'm thinking about dovetails. I use one chisel to pair and a different chisel tf I need to chop. When fitting I will bring in one of the Japanese White steel pairing chisels to trim the pins or even "true" the tails if needed. Meaning on a typical set of dovetails I will use at least 3 different types/makes of chisels. Anyone else do that?

ken

I'm a chisel glutton, that is for certain, but I really work my dovetails with two chisels, one for pins one for tails. I pare with them as well. Kikuhiromaru white steel is consistently my go-to. I have Tasai shinogi chisels for between the pins.

I also have a set of Konobu blue steel chisels which mainly sit in my toolbox, I have not worked my way up to really using them much yet, and a set of Kunikei that hang on the wall for the same reasons, they're box style in white steel. I admire them daily but seem not to be able to pick up anything other than my Kikuhiromaru when it comes time to chop. I know them so well at this point I guess I just have utter confidence in them that I chose to use them even with finer chisels in the room.

Lagavulin is the only whisky on my shelf of which I have three bottles :o. I consider it mission critical.

[steven c newman]

Dullamore Dew is the go-to here.....

The latest of the Aldi's chisels are thicker, and work well when I and chopping things other than a mortise.....no chipping seen even in hard maple, no "rolling" of the edges.
369405
Rather than the wood mallet, I use a different sort "driver"
369406
Nice little hammer..

[Derek Cohen]

I've posted my tests (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/FourChiselSteelsCompared.html) of bench chisels for chopping in the past. The two that stood out, in order, were Koyamaichi (white steel), and Veritas PM-V11. Both were head-and-shoulders above A2 and O1 bladed chisels.

Choosing only one, I must go for Koyamaichi. I suspect that other Japanese/laminated blades would perform in a similar manner.

Don't forget that technique is part of this as well - for example, chopping larger slices places more stress on the blade edge than chopping a thin slice.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Holbrook]

Like Derek I have a few Koyamaichi mortise chisels and a larger Koyamaichi Tataki (striking) chisel.

I will put in a good word for a set of Barr "Cabinet Makers" chisels I bought from Highland Woodworking at one of their annual sales. The Barr chisels are socket chisels like the Stanley and LN offerings, but I think the sockets may be even beefier, made from forged steel. The handles are shorter, easy to grip for striking, made from tough ash with ferrules. The Barr chisels are the only chisels at my new home in Cherry Log, GA. They have been getting a good deal of use in some heavy timbers for an outdoor bar/table. Barr makes even more serious chisels for guys who do timber framing. Serious tools made to do heavy work. I just made a few mallets from dogwood that I am anxious to try out with the Barr chisels.

After a life time of: blocking guys twice my size and wrestling, rolling kayaks in southern whitewater, rock gardens, and catching large dogs, moving at high speed, on a "bite sleeve", it is probably not surprising to have a few back challenges. I own a Nautilus sit up and back stretching bench. When I find time to use it I have very few issues, when I don't I pay. Good luck with your back issue Ken.

[Matt Evans]

When my Whisky isn't just elevator music it will usually be either Lagavulin or Laphroaig. In fact there is a finger or two of Lagavulin in my glass as I type.....Life is good.

ken

Islay is my style as well. As far as scotch goes, Laphroaig, Lagavulin and Ardbeg are just about the only things I'll drink any more. Every once in a while I'm in the mood for whisky, but not scotch, and there are several Bourbons that fill in alright at that point.

I typically do just about the same on my dovetails. Dovetail chisels for the tails and pins, and sometimes the Narex chisels for some of the wider dovetail waste. For fitting i use a combination of chisels and file/rasps. I like to bring in my 1" Sorby mortise chisel if I have the room, since it has wide lands to keep it registered true to the bottom of the dovetail joint.

Thats about all I found the Sorby Mortise chisel good for, btw. As a Mortise chisel, it likes to twist since the cross section is not the same as a good pig sticker. Anyone found a good 3/4-1" pigsticker?

Then for the tail/pin trimming afterwords I use mostly the Narex Bench chisels. I am seriously considering getting a small slick for this though, or a 1" cranked neck chisel. It would make life a lot easier on dovetailed corners wider than about 12".

[ken hatch]

Islay is my style as well. As far as scotch goes, Laphroaig, Lagavulin and Ardbeg are just about the only things I'll drink any more. Every once in a while I'm in the mood for whisky, but not scotch, and there are several Bourbons that fill in alright at that point.

I typically do just about the same on my dovetails. Dovetail chisels for the tails and pins, and sometimes the Narex chisels for some of the wider dovetail waste. For fitting i use a combination of chisels and file/rasps. I like to bring in my 1" Sorby mortise chisel if I have the room, since it has wide lands to keep it registered true to the bottom of the dovetail joint.

Thats about all I found the Sorby Mortise chisel good for, btw. As a Mortise chisel, it likes to twist since the cross section is not the same as a good pig sticker. Anyone found a good 3/4-1" pigsticker?

Then for the tail/pin trimming afterwords I use mostly the Narex Bench chisels. I am seriously considering getting a small slick for this though, or a 1" cranked neck chisel. It would make life a lot easier on dovetailed corners wider than about 12".

Matt,

Your comment on the Sorby mortise chisels brought a smile, some of my first chisels were a set of Sorby mortise chisels along with Freud bench chisels with London pattern handles. Both are still in the chisel till, the Sorby mortise chisels do not get a lot of love for the reasons you mentioned.

Chisels are so personal, what works for one most likely will not for someone else and they are much more than how long they will hold a working edge. Even what is a working edge is different for most folks. And how do you quantify "feel" with out lapsing into what I used to call art speak. Bottom line it is it's like porn....You know it when you feel it.

ken