Footprint for a sliging saw?

[Mark Singer]

I have a 10ft sliding door that rolls up. This allows me to feed long boards from outside the shop. I was wondering how much room a 8 ft sliding saw takes, in both directions? Maybe Paul C. and some of the other Euro sliding experts can help. Just thinking out loud here....you know...maybe...:confused:

[Jim Becker]

Simple answer...you have the space! In fact, I don't think you'd have a problem handling either the 8.5' slider or the "macho" 10'-er if you really wanted to. Your shop is ideal because it's a big open space that is easy to configure to suit the tools infeed and outfeed needs. Sam or Paul or John will have to supply the front to back measurments for the slider, however...I don't have one...yet...to measure.

[Mark Singer]

Simple answer...you have the space! In fact, I don't think you'd have a problem handling either the 8.5' slider or the "macho" 10'-er if you really wanted to. Your shop is ideal because it's a big open space that is easy to configure to suit the tools infeed and outfeed needs. Sam or Paul or John will have to supply the front to back measurments for the slider, however...I don't have one...yet...to measure.

Jim ,
you know my shop....can I just move my glue up/ finishing table down as I show and use the sliding saw /shaper without a table? Jim what MM model am I looking at fot a saw/shaper?

[John Miliunas]

Mark, just from what I recall seeing at a couple of the WW shows, I'd have to concur with JB. You're quite flexible in there, particularly with how your overhead is positioned in proximity to the saw. Yes, I would most definitely move your current outfeed/assembly table down to give you the necessary space. With the room the J/P will save you, I believe you should be in the clear.:) BUT, I'm just wondering where you're going to put that big lathe of yours??? :rolleyes: Don't see it in the drawing!:D :)

[Paul B. Cresti]

Now thats what I like to hear someone figuring out how to fit a slider in ;) Well all I can say is I sure know about measuring for equipment! ...

Anyway it depends on how much space you have and how you want to set up the saw. My main goal for setting my S315 (8.5 ft) and my now S35 (10.5ft) was/is to allow a min of 8ft ripping on the slider without opening the overhead door. I too have my saw in front of a door. Actually I place all of my equipment so that I have a clear path for the min 8ft length of milling, always have and always will. So I would set the saw to allow the full stroke back, in towards the shop, and then allow at least 8ft in FRONT of the blade, for a 8.5 ft slider this usually comes to about 19ft. Now this is roughly actual clearance for the slider to work not clearance to allow one to walk around it at its full extension. Currently I set my S35 so that I can pull its full 10.5ft stroke back in the shop and have enough front clearance to allow a full 8+ft stroke in front. If I want to use a 10 ft rip I need to open the overhead door. I find that this is a good compromise as I do not do 10 ft rips on a regular basis but do use the 8ft capacity all the time in stock prep.
Now remember that 19ft is the slider stroke and the slider depending on manufacturer is roughly 12-16 inches wide. If you are using sheetgoods then you need to account for the width of the panel for the space needed to work the slider + outrigger with the sheetgood on it. So if you based it upon my old S315 with the outrigger on and crosscut fence the path it would need for a panel was 5'-8" (to the left of the slider as this was the length of the outrigger and crosscut fence not extended) wide by roughly 19'-0" long. One other thing to remember is the tops of my machines are 35'" AFF so it anything on it will glide over any adjacent lower work surfaces.
The space to the left of the blade (outrigger side) also depends on you. I set it up to allow up to a 8'-0" + crosscut using the crosscut fence. Now this is a max measured cut gauged off of the fence stops so it is extremely accurate. My crosscut fence can telescope out to like 10'-0" but I will never see that. You can also crossscut the other way either referencing off of the rip fence or not using it all for rough cuts.

I hope this helps some. Let me know if you have any other questions or if you need help choosing a brand ;)

[Mark Singer]

Mark, just from what I recall seeing at a couple of the WW shows, I'd have to concur with JB. You're quite flexible in there, particularly with how your overhead is positioned in proximity to the saw. Yes, I would most definitely move your current outfeed/assembly table down to give you the necessary space. With the room the J/P will save you, I believe you should be in the clear.:) BUT, I'm just wondering where you're going to put that big lathe of yours??? :rolleyes: Don't see it in the drawing!:D :)

I am building a large special shop for the lathe...I will be able to turn 48" diameter pizzas ...thin or thick crust ..with or without sauce...I am ordering the topping sorter now...bins for sausage, mushroom, onion, peperoni, sawdust, cheese, :eek:

[Mark Singer]

Paul,
You are perfect for checking my layout....fellow architect! :rolleyes: Please look at my drawing ...I added dimensions. I really don't know what I am doing...I am not sure how big a MM or Felder saw/shaper is...how does it look based oon my sketch? Do I have the saw oriented coorrectly?
Thanks. Others can answer too!

[Paul B. Cresti]

Mark,
I scanned in a page that contained some dimensions from my S315, which is very similiar to MM ST4 Elite Saw/Shaper, and it will not load up. I will email it to you directly. The saw itself is a "T" shaped configuration and if I read your sketch correctly, facing towards the OH door, the main cabinet of the saw would be on the right. This is the leg of the "T" and should be in the center of the slider. The left side is the outrigger and could be anywhere along the slider. I would try to see if you could rotate that back table 90d so that you could get the full stroke of the saw inside the shop. Then in order to allow sheetgoods to go beyond the OH door you would need to offset the saw to the right to allow the full width to pass through the opening. The other alternative is to have the saw the other way so that the back stroke is against the OH door. My saw has the OH door with less space on the right than the left so it is slightly different. I will send you a Autocad file also.

[Charlie Plesums]

Mark, I would move the table to one side, so that you can run the slider the full length without opening the door.

I have an 8 1/2 foot slider (which takes 17 feet end-to-end). The removable outrigger is normally on one end of the slider. A miter fence is typically on the other end of the slider. And when I rip lumber (especially the first cut on the edge of a rough or warped board) I use the full length of the slider. Therefore I am frequently using the full length of the slider.

Since my shop is MUCH smaller than yours, the mortiser (on the combo, opposite the slider) is only about 30 inches from the wall (no floating tenons in long aprons). My "scrap" is on a rolling cart, which occasionally has to move to mill pieces longer than 8 feet. My lathe is on a rolling bench (that is another story) that has to move if I am taking more than about a foot off an 8 foot sheet, or planing more than 7 feet. I have a couple folding benches (aka sawhorses and a half sheet of plywood) that are low enough to be under the outrigger or slider - although usually I either use the bench or the outrigger - not both - depending on where I am in a project.

I assume the table in your plan is an assembly table... I recommend tha tyou offset it from the path of the slider (at least the narrow part of the slider that gets the most use), or may be able to make it slightly shorter, so the slider goes over it when you don't have a project on it.

No matter how long the slider, there will still be longer boards, for which large doors are wonderful.

[Mark Singer]

Charlie,
Thanks! The weather here is mild which allows for working with the doors open most of the time....I will see the saws at the Costa Mesa show on friday and see what will work best. It looks like i can get omething to work. The drum sander feeds over my table saw side table. I am a little unsure about that with the slider.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Mark, I'm pretty sure it won't fit unless you move the jointer/planer and a couple of the sanders out of there (especially the drum sander). The cyclone might need to go, too. I volunteer my shop, since you obviously won't have room for them in yours. ;)

- Vaughn

[lou sansone]

Mark

does the type of work you do require a long slider ( 8.5') or would you be able to do 90% of you building with a shorter one in the 5' range ? I know that most will advise to get the longest you can fit, but you do have to live with it for a long time. You guys know that I have also been looking at a number of different sliders and paul has been educating me as well. So I was doing the same drill as you have with a tape measure and such.

lou

[Paul B. Cresti]

Mark,
I just noticed that you have a MS station on the side. If you go to a slider you can get rid of that, I did, it is not even the shop any more. I am still thinking of selling my Bosch (barely used) but I might keep it for millwork installs only. I may have misread you sketch as I am not sure which side you are figuring the outrigger to be on, it may be the reverse of what I was thinking. It is probably best to call me to discuss rather then typing and being misundertood. One way to think about it is set it up like a American CD with the one side, rip fenceside, up against a wall and the other side (outrigger side) with as much length and width alley as possible. This side is where 95% of the cutting takes place. So going back to my 8'-0" (crosscut width) x 19'-0" (rip length) position that square for its best use, center the saw on it and your bascally there! Some of the things you may want to improve upon is the crosscut width, access to easily bring sheetgood to the saw, crosscut width on the opposite side the saw (rip fence side) , overall clearance around the saw will its full extension mode front and back and clearance around the outrigger and crosscut fence when it is on the saw.

[Matt Meiser]

Mark, there is an easy solution. Kick the cars out and reclaim the rest of your shop from them. Make that area your machine tool room and your current shop the hand tool room.

[Jack Easton]

Looks like you have plenty of room for a slider. In reality it will take up the same "ghost area" (for lack of a better word) as a cabinet saw. And you don't often use the full stroke or have the outrigger on it. Most of the time I just have the smaller miter gauge on it with no outrigger, set about 12" behind the blade for general and crosscutting work. Like Paul said, my chop saw is now only used on jobsites, don't even set it up in the shop.

[Mark Singer]

The sliding chop saw i s handy against the wall and is efficent. I have all my small power tools, routers , drills and sanders below in cubbies.

I know if I get rid of all the small tools I will have more room....Vaughn I think you still have room right?:rolleyes:

[Paul B. Cresti]

The sliding chop saw i s handy against the wall and is efficent. I have all my small power tools, routers , drills and sanders below in cubbies.

I know if I get rid of all the small tools I will have more room....Vaughn I think you still have room right?:rolleyes:

Mark,
I would not get rid of the bench or storage below or even the saw for that matter but I would remove it from its permanent setting. This way (as long as the bench is lower than the slider table height) you can have the ability of any long crosscut pieces going all the way towards the wall. I actually lower my old SCMS station bench top just for this purpose. I still get the storage below and some work surface above but the slider's crosscut fence glides over the top of the bench top. I was playing with inches but that is what I do best!

[Mark Singer]

Paul,
That makes sense...I wil measure the height of that bench ....it may be too high to slide over

[Jim Becker]

Sorry for the delay in answering, Mark...'bidness called.

The ST3 and ST4 are the slider/shaper machine generally offered by MM. The latter is a closer cousin to the slider that Paul was running prior to getting the larger machine and has more options in the slider size arrangement. However, as far as I know, both of these machines are custom ordered and you can likely get the configuration you want in either to some extent. Slider size is one thing; tilting option on the shaper is another and I think, but am not sure, that you can also specify the dado capablity. (I think my friend Tom has the ST3 with the dado arrangement) 'Best to talk to Sam or Michael, etc., to get the straight poop.

And, I'll add...I'll be truly jealous when you put a slider in your beautiful shop! It was made for it!! ;)

[markus shaffer]

Mark,

Not sure if you're thinking about an overarm guard, but look into what that adds to the machine's footprint as well if it's something you might want.

My saw is pushed up against the wall and the arm of the guard sticks out quite a bit from the main body. Photo below.

-Markus

[Steven Wilson]

Ok, Mark I just measured up my CU350 (8.5' ST, 14" JP). With the mortise machine attached the machine is roughly 7' long and 6' wide. The 8.5' sliding table has a guard at the end so the sliding table sticks out in back an extra 2.5' . I leave the outrigger attached and it extends 4' to the left of the saw and is 2.5" wide. I have rollaway storage cabinets that are shorter than the height of the carrige (I can store stuff under the outrigger when not it use. So a gross overall footprint is roughly 10'x10'. Having said that, with the mobility kit I find it very easy to back the machine up to a wall to make space for a car. It actually backs up and wraps around a MM20 bandsaw. I find that it takes less space than the machines it replaced.