View Full Version : Legal actions for a possible dodgy repair

Mike Lysov
10-02-2017, 1:28 AM
Hi guys,

It is just killing me. Almost US $8000 wasted for repair, multiple shipping costs and a new set of cables. All wasted on Synrad 100W tube(repaired by Synrad plus new cables from them and shipping cost).

Both after repair and changing the cables the set(RF and head) is unstable. The first time after repair I had to use some force for a RF cable connection to the RF unit to tighten it and make it working. Worked a few weeks then stopped. I paid to my friend to fly from a different state to my place and try to test it and fix it. That's when he found some very bad soldering on the Start plug and inside the RF unit, fixed them but it did not fix anything.

As a last chance I decided to get a new set of cables and a new quick start plug. Received it last week, connected everything and it started working. I was more than happy until next day the same happened right on turning the machine on. Nothing works now, blue(SHT) LEDs is unstable, sometimes blinking(like shortening), sometimes OFF, sometimes RD LED is blinking showing a fault(5 times=RF not working). And even all these states do not repeat after I turn my laser OFF and then ON again The same behaviour as right before repair and a few weeks after.

So I have two options now:

1) sell the whole machine for a scrap(paid 45 000 AUD for it just 7 years ago plus extra 11000 AUD on repair). I do not think anybody will pay decent money for it without the tube working.

2)send the set back to Synrad to do repair again. Their repair is still under warranty so I hope they won't dare to charge me this time. However I am not in position to check their repairs and I do not think it is all impossible that they will say that we opened the RF and did some soldering on some connector pins after it stopped working after repair. And even if they do not notice resoldering part they could always say that repaired/replaced boards are ok, but something else broke and I have to pay for it again. Really do not want to spend anything on its repair and only can pay for shipping which is whooping 2500 AUD for me with return anyway.

This is just crazy and devastating for both my business and family finances.
And in case Synrad will try to charge me for the repair again is there anything can be done to them in legal terms considering I am in Australia and they are obviously in USA?

What would you do guys?

Mike Null
10-02-2017, 9:07 AM
Synrad has enjoyed a solid reputation over the 20 years I've been in the business. My dealings with them were limited but I found them to be helpful on my non-warranty issue years ago. I would try communicating with them to see what they can do to help.

Robert Bonenfant
10-02-2017, 1:30 PM
Like Mike said trying working with them and see what they offer. When you have a warranty from a US company they must take care of it or you can sue them for damages if they do not. Do you have any laser companies in Australia ? Might be worth cutting your losses and buying a local machine/tube So you dont have to worry about down time. Yes it would be costly but it sounds like you already spend alot.

Scott Shepherd
10-02-2017, 2:44 PM
I'd try to get to someone that's in charge or seems to know their products, and explain the circumstances to them. Walk through it with them and explain it wasn't working, explain your mate opened the connector up and touched up the soldering, explain that it didn't resolve it, then you bought a new cable assy and that experienced the same issues, so you know it wasn't the cable. If you walk it with them, and get them to agree, then you can probably bypass the whole "We're not going to fix it because you had someone mess with the cable" issue. Explain the new cable exhibits the same behavior, and get them to agree with that point. I suspect if you are polite, as well as honest, with them, and brainstorm through it with them a little, then you'll find they'll do what they can to take it back in and recheck it.

Having said that, if it went out of their doors, I suspect it was working and had passed a QC test, so something must have happened. I doubt they are shipping things out without a pretty substantial testing and QC process.

Good luck!

Mike Lysov
10-02-2017, 8:47 PM
Thank you guys. They are helping, sending us diagrams and providing requested info. It just does not fix anything.
As for the testing after repair they tested it for less than 5 minutes even though my initial issue was the tube loosing power on 20-30 minutes jobs and 5 minutes test woldn't come to that.

Everytime we fixed something or straight after repair or for the first time with a new set of cables the set seemed to be working in a normal way. It just takes one turn off and turn on again after the first time for it to fail again.

So the only "dodgy" part is that they have not tested it for 20-30 minutes. In my opinion it would be logical to test it for much more than 5 minutes if a customer complained about loosing his tube power on 20-30 minutes long job.

As for the legal stuff, I am not talking about the first repair. They have offered me many times to send the set back to them for checking. The only two reasons I have not done it yet are:

1)I have a friend who is professional in electronics and fault analysis. I hoped he could find a fault that we could fix locally or at least find where the fault is and ask Synrad for a spare part to replace a faulty one. We found completelly loose soldering in their start plug and very bad soldering in the RF unit. We fixed both but it did not solve a problem. That was an alternative plan for me in order to avoid wasting another $2000 AUD on shipping the set back to them and to me from them plus what I am mentioning in the option two below. This plan has obviously failed.

2)I am sending them my parts that cost over $15000 AUD here in a working condition. My worries here are if they decide to charge me for repair again I cannot bear another $8000-10000 AUD to repair what has been repaired and paid for already. If they choose to charge me again while I cannot pay for it they will keep my parts until they receive my payment.

I understand it is a B2B relationship with a huge corporation on one end and a small(tiny) business on the other. I believe in this case everybody will act in their own interest so it is possible that they will try to charge me for repair again and I need to be at least prepared for it.

That's why I am asking about any legal actions. Nobody should pay for the same repair twice, especially when repair cost a lot. I have an idea how to do force a local compamy locally to fix what they have done wrong but this is a transaction between business located in different countries and I am sure it will be much more complicated.

There is nobody in Australia who can repair it. The only company I have found will do it through Synrad USA. They will just add their margin on top of Synrad charge, chop something from shipping cost and I will end up paying more.

I cannot and really do not want to install another set. First it would just cost a lot for a new one or I can end up with something like mine if I buy a second hand one.

Bill George
10-04-2017, 2:10 PM
Have you trying explaining to them the situation and ask for a solution at no added cost to you?? For the trouble your going through and I feel sorry about that, some users have just replaced the RF tube with a Chinese glass tube and controls.

Dave Sheldrake
10-04-2017, 2:32 PM
New 120 watt RF laser resonator $6,800 from Sintec Optronics, drop them a line and ask for Piero (they also do repairs)

Bill George
10-04-2017, 6:25 PM
New 120 watt RF laser resonator $6,800 from Sintec Optronics, drop them a line and ask for Piero (they also do repairs)

I am impressed Dave, it looks like a great company... at least the website is> http://www.sintecoptronics.com/markingsoftware.asp

Dave Sheldrake
10-05-2017, 8:49 AM
They are Bill, very little in the laser world that they don't have available :)