Mounting UHMW Sheet To Fence

[Robert Stanton]

1. I've purchased a 1/4" sheet of UHMW to attach to my 80/20 fence. How often should I drill mounting holes? I have 4 nuts and probably need more (they aren't cheep).

2. The UHMW sheet has tool marks on it. I expected it to be smooth and perhaps glossy. I'm not sure this photo will matter but it's here. Any ideas on how to smooth it out? I've tried 120 grit orbital with minimal results.

[Frederick Skelly]

2. The UHMW sheet has tool marks on it. I expected it to be smooth and perhaps glossy. I'm not sure this photo will matter but it's here. Any ideas on how to smooth it out? I've tried 120 grit orbital with minimal results.

I've used a sharp hand plane Bob.
Fred

[Lee Schierer]

UHMW machines like wood. Run it through your planer taking a light cut. Depending upon your planer, you might have to help feed it through if the rollers don't have enough grip. Wax your bed well before starting to reduce friction. I've milled edges on my jointer with no problem.

Here is a video of it being machine planed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoNrOjT6SFo).

[Larry Edgerton]

Leave the marks on it, lets air in behind workpiece.

[Robert Engel]

I would glue it to a piece of jointed wood first.

[Robert Stanton]

I would glue it to a piece of jointed wood first.

Wouldn't it be difficult to glue UHMW?

[Martin Wasner]

Wouldn't it be difficult to glue UHMW?

Oddly enough, no. I made a saw horse for the side of a tablesaw and skinned the deck with it, I was pretty confident it was going to fail. Probably three years later it's still stuck down to a piece of ½" Baltic Birch. I just used 3M Super 77 too. I did rough the back up with a belt sander for more tooth, but I didn't think it'd work.

[Martin Wasner]

contact adhesive would be great for a temporary hold too. Lift a corner and get some solvent in there and it peels right off

[Cary Falk]

1/4" UHMW sounds kind of thin to mount by itself. I think I would also try to mount it t a backer board with some type of contact adhesive.

[Robert Stanton]

1/4" UHMW sounds kind of thin to mount by itself. I think I would also try to mount it t a backer board with some type of contact adhesive.

I already put down fence tape on rail assuming 1/4" fence addition. If it's the right answer it's the right answer. I have a 4'x'4' sheet of Baltic Birch I could use.

[Bob Wingard]

UHMW is very sensitive to heat expansion ... once it moves ... the glue lets go ... there is no real "bonding" anything to UHMW ... mechanical fastening, allowing for thermal expansion has been the only proven method to anchor it in place. We used miles of it at work, and we have never been able to find any adhesive or glue that was reliable. We dovetailed it onto stainless machine parts, and held one end with screws ... let the other end float. That was the only thing that worked for us.

[Ted Phillips]

I touch up my UHMW sheets with a very sharp smoothing plane. Peels the saw marks right off.

I agree with Bob - you need to drill/countersink, then attach with bolts or machine screws.

[Frank Pratt]

I'm not convinced that UHMW is a good choice for something like a fence. The only way to securely hold it in place is with mechanical fasteners and any force at all distorts the plastic. When I was table saw shopping (for over a year) I looked at dozens of saws & everyone that had UHMW on the fence was visibly not flat & true.

Baltic Birch ply with plastic laminate would be my choice. The occasional wipe with a chunk of paraffin keeps things sliding smoothly

[Robert Hayward]

Baltic Birch ply with plastic laminate would be my choice. The occasional wipe with a chunk of paraffin keeps things sliding smoothly

+1. That is what I use. Except I use Johnson's Paste Wax to keep the laminate slick. Removing the UHMW from the fence was the first modification I made to a new PM2000. I used two layers of 1/2" Baltic Birch glued together to get a more stable base for the laminate. Stays super flat in a shop with A/C.

[Sam Murdoch]

For what it's worth my favorite screws for UHMW to wood are euro screws. The proper size pilot hole allows the screw to bite and the head flushes up beautifully. Good hold for most applications but for 1/4" material in this application - I don't know. I have no experience gluing it so I'll defer to the others.

[ed vitanovec]

All the UHMW I bought has been smooth and had good results using 1/2" and 3/4" for fences attached with screws. The stuff is slick and I thick it is self lubricating.

[John Lifer]

Quarter inch is pretty thin for use on fence. My pm2000 has close to half inch thick piece and is flat after 15years.

[Frederick Skelly]

I'm not convinced that UHMW is a good choice for something like a fence. The only way to securely hold it in place is with mechanical fasteners and any force at all distorts the plastic. When I was table saw shopping (for over a year) I looked at dozens of saws & everyone that had UHMW on the fence was visibly not flat & true.

Baltic Birch ply with plastic laminate would be my choice. The occasional wipe with a chunk of paraffin keeps things sliding smoothly

No way to argue with BB + laminate. Got it on my Biesemeyer and it's fine.

But if you wanted a UHMW face, it seems like you could make the UHMW lay flat and parallel (after fastening mechanically) with a hand plane and a set of calipers.

[Steve Harris Bonney Lake, WA]

My Powermatic 66 fence had the UHMW on the fence sides, I did not like for some reason and changed it with the laminated Phenolic faced Baltic Birch sold at Woodcraft. i am much happier with the look and it was easy to machine the same type of slots in it to attach it the same way.

[Michael A. Tyree]

Thread Resurrection: I just bought a saw with a Biesemeyer fence on it which I'm wanting to face with "something", I prefer to DIY my solution. A guy on ebay is sellling HDPE saw fence faces that he CNC machines the fastner slots into them, sells for like $120 plus s/h.
I see Peachtree and others sell plastic for such purpose.
Prospecting for ideas? Thanks in advance!

[Jamie Buxton]

So Michael, what about your existing fence don’t you like? That might get give your readers some basis for suggestions.

[Steve Fish]

421314I bought a roll of this a long time ago. I press it on with a small laminate roller when possible. I just use it for some jig components so not sure how well it will hold up on a fence

[Frank Pratt]

My $.02. When I was table saw shopping a few years ago, every fence I looked at with HDPE or UHMW facing on the fence was not terribly flat. The stuff just isn't rigid enough to stay straight when it's screwed to the substrate. I think it would be fine if glued to a flat piece of MDF or BB ply though.

A melamine faced board make a better fence. I just wax mine a few times a year & it's stays very slick.

[Lisa Starr]

Look at McMaster-Carr. They offer a large variety of plastics and you can fabricate your own fence faces.

[Michael A. Tyree]

So Michael, what about your existing fence don’t you like? That might get give your readers some basis for suggestions.


Given that it's still on a trailer from a long trip (slept 3 hrs in a parking lot in VA yesterday) to fetch the saw it's never been used by me as yet. I like the notion of improving the original Biesemeyer faces, that's it. Is that not a commonly done improvement, so why do i need to embellish my comments after I use it? In the end, it's a simple thought I came up with and as suggested already-> "I am prospecting for ideas"...

[Michael A. Tyree]

Frank, I've read variable comments on flatness depending on fasteners & thickness. The material I see sold on these fences (newer than my fence) is flat I would assume?
Steve, FWIW, I am not allowed access to your link, but it's the commonly sold slick tape?

[Michael A. Tyree]

Lisa, I found several plastic specific suppliers that sell cuts in my called for spec that are also cheaper than MCMaster.

[Robert Hazelwood]

When I got my saw with a Beisemeyer fence the factory laminates were pretty well torn up, so I removed them and glued shop-sawn quartersawn white oak veneers (about 1/8" thick) to the original plywood. I made matching holes in the veneers for the sheetmetal screws that attach the plywood to the fence bar, so now the faces can be removed without removing any laminates or veneer.

After installing the veneered fence faces I hand planed them flat and square to the table, then applied some shellac. Being able to do that is a big advantage to wooden faces. Pretty happy with the results, and the sliding action is very good. I see no need for UHMW and I do think you'd have trouble attaching it.

I think that because I also had to replace the factory teflon (?) contact pads that ride on the front rail. My original plan was to make new pads out of 1/8" thick UHMW. They needed to be 1/8" thick to match the old ones, but that's too thin to use fasteners. To attach them to the fence base I tried various kinds of double stick tape and glues. E6000 glue worked the best but with all methods eventually the pads would slide around and adhesive get residue all over the front rail. Then I tried gluing thin strips of white oak as pads and then sticking some 0.010" UHMW tape on the wood. Same issue, the tape would eventually slide off the wooden strips. I ended up removing the tape and adhesive residue and just waxing the white oak pads and running the fence on those. Works great. Slides fine.

So based on my experience I would not count on any glue bond lasting with UHMW even when it seems like a good bond at first. If you must use UHMW for the fence I would only rely on fasteners to hold it. I just don't think it would be an improvement upon what I did in terms of flatness or solidity, and any advantage in slickness amounts to little more than a shrug in use.

[Jacob Reverb]

So based on my experience I would not count on any glue bond lasting with UHMW even when it seems like a good bond at first.

I wouldn't either ...
...but...
FWIW, the Gougeon guys (of West System epoxy fame) have said that they have successfully glued PE. Apparently, PE is technically a wax, with either a polar or non-polar molecule (I forget which) and the key to getting glue to adhere to it is to change the molecules at the bonding surface from polar to non-polar (or visa-versa). The way the West System folks did that is by scorching the PE with a propane torch, then rapidly gluing it.

I don't think you need to melt or blacken the PE ... just heat it quickly until its sheen changes slightly...then glue it quickly (because I believe the molecules change back to their original state or whatever)...YMMV and good luck.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Ha, I actually had read about that and tried it with those fence pads. At first it seemed to have worked, but it still failed in shear relatively quickly when placed in service.

[Steve Fish]

Frank, I've read variable comments on flatness depending on fasteners & thickness. The material I see sold on these fences (newer than my fence) is flat I would assume?
Steve, FWIW, I am not allowed access to your link, but it's the commonly sold slick tape?

Mike, I think you can find it by searching for “slick strips “ through woodriver products. Comes in a few different sizes.

[Jacob Reverb]

...
FWIW, the Gougeon guys (of West System epoxy fame) have said that they have successfully glued PE. Apparently, PE is technically a wax, with either a polar or non-polar molecule (I forget which) and the key to getting glue to adhere to it is to change the molecules at the bonding surface from polar to non-polar (or visa-versa). The way the West System folks did that is by scorching the PE with a propane torch, then rapidly gluing it.

I don't think you need to melt or blacken the PE ... just heat it quickly until its sheen changes slightly...then glue it quickly (because I believe the molecules change back to their original state or whatever)...YMMV and good luck.

FWIW, here are the tensile strength improvements (dunno about shear strength) West System found by flame-treating HDPE before gluing with Gflex:

https://www.westsystem.com/specialty-epoxies/gflex-epoxy-adhesion-data/

And here's an article on it:

https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php/gluing-plastic-with-gflex-epoxy/

TLDR version – degreasing with alcohol and flame-treating before gluing seemed to give best adhesion. Pretty impressive results:

https://www.epoxyworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Plastic-joint.jpg

[Michael A. Tyree]

Long week, road wise so far! Spent next two days with my wife sharing her Alzheimers duty at her Mom's, yet another road trip my wife makes each week. Had to take a bed apart and then haul it over a 100k to her sisters house along with other furniture. Yuk.
The fence on my saw is serviceable as is but buggered up somewhat from use. The original baltic plywood? Biesemeyer used is sort of dog eared but certainly it will suffice as is for now. Given that I am painting the cabinet I just had the thought I'd look at dolling it up and perhaps improving the fence some.
Thanks for comments so far! - there's a lot of experience on this forum.
Take a look on ebay at these fence sides: item # 132963413723. they are the target DIY fence sides I had in mind. I would buy plastic and replicate what the ebay seller has listed.
Another item-glide pads on ebay, item # 382862548947. Again as a DIY project I'd buy plastic and make my own cheaply.
Not that I would not be gluing anything if i make either of these two items.