Hand drill for hex shank auger bit?

[Greg Woloshyn]

I've started to prepare drilling out the dog holes in my benchtop. The only tool I can use to spin my auger bit in is my cordless drill on low speed but it's still running too fast and hard to control the bit making the top of the hole way oversize. I've come across plenty of used hand drills but they all take the "brace bits". Can anyone point me in the direction of a drill of this type that will take my hex shank auger bits?

[Bill Dufour]

I have used a hand brace with 1/4 hex screwdriver bits.
Bill

[Bill Houghton]

Most two-jaw braces will accept a hex shank; orient it so the jaws are clamping down on opposing points of the hex.

If that's not working, you can find three-jaw braces. They can be found, although they're not common, as vintage braces. If you have the money, you can get one from Lee Valley: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32300&cat=1,180,42337,32300

[Patrick Chase]

I have the LV 3-jaw brace, it works great with hex-shank augurs, but...

If you're willing to use a cordless drill then why are you trying to use an augur for this to begin with? You can get 3/4 brad-point bits (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=72602&cat=1,41637) that will get the job done nicely for a lot less than the cost of a brace. Amana also makes a decent 9" (IIRC, too lazy to go down and look) brad point bit if your bench is too thick for the one LV sells. It's also a good idea to make a jig as shown in that LV page.

Also, in my experience most hex-shank augurs have pretty coarse screws that are mostly suitable for softwoods. If your bench is made out of anything dense then you might want to track down a taper-shank Jennings bit or something like that.

[Greg Woloshyn]

aI didn't think of using a brad point bit - the largest I have is 1/2" so I might just buy the Amana 3/4" and be done with it. Since the auger bit is best for deep hole drilling, I went that route but didn't realize how much torque it requires and my cordless drill just cannot handle it. I do not have a brace - or at least I cannot find it. The benchtop is made of pine.

[Rick Malakoff]

I found a 3 pack 5/8, 3/4, and 1 inch at Ace for not much $$.
Rick

https://www.amazon.com/IRWIN-SPEEDBOR-Speed-6-Piece-3041006/dp/B000LQ905E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1506514603&sr=8-1&keywords=irwin+auger+bits

[Ole Anderson]

Any reason you couldn't just use a spade bit? I like the Bosch ones with the screw starter point. Or a forstner bit. Both would work with a cordless.

[Mike Holbrook]

There are electric drills with removable chucks and drilling settings. There are companies who make three jaw chucks for electric drills. Festool drill kits are expensive but come with several exchangeable heads. It is worth taking the time to find braces and hand drills that work with hex drives too, they just work better in this posters experience. Lee Valley now sells 7", 7/16" hex shaft, Woodl Owl drill bits that will out perform anything else and they are not particularly expensive either. They:do not heat up nearly as much as other bits, go right through hard woods that choke most other bits, leave very neat holes, the screw tips engage easily and pull through just about anything. These bits have three spurs like better brad points, and wear better than anything I have found.

[steven c newman]

Maybe one of these would work?
368657
What I used to drill my dog holes with. 12" sweep, Samson chuck
368658
Has plenty of torque. One of the strongest chucks ever made.

[Bill McNiel]

I strongly reccomend this Dog Hole Bushing and Drill Bit setup from Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=72602&cat=1,180,72637&ap=1)

[Patrick Chase]

I went that route but didn't realize how much torque it requires and my cordless drill just cannot handle it. I do not have a brace - or at least I cannot find it. The benchtop is made of pine.

The high torque requirement is another symptom of a too-coarse screw. It's entirely in keeping with the hex shank though :-).

[Patrick Chase]

Any reason you couldn't just use a spade bit? I like the Bosch ones with the screw starter point. Or a forstner bit. Both would work with a cordless.

You want a dog hole to be straight, perpendicular to the worksurface, and accurate in diameter. None of those are easy to achieve when freehanding (either by hand or with cordless) with a spade or forstner, as you can't guide either type with a bushing. Also you don't need a flat bottom for a dog hole, so using a Forstner would be a waste of an expensive bit.

[Jim Koepke]

My strength isn't particularly great, but a sharp 3/4" auger isn't that hard to run through hardwood with a 10" brace. A 12" swing makes it easier, but wears me out a bit quicker because of the longer throw.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Take your pick...
368662
From a 14" down to a 6".....

[Patrick Chase]

My strength isn't particularly great, but a sharp 3/4" auger isn't that hard to run through hardwood with a 10" brace. A 12" swing makes it easier, but wears me out a bit quicker because of the longer throw.

jtk

Depends on the augur. My hardwood-oriented Jennings augurs (both sets) go through pretty easily. Some of my newer, coarse-threaded augurs take some work and their spurs get pretty hot in the process.

Note however that the OP didn't have a brace, hence the recommendation to try a brad-point bit :-).

[steven c newman]

Have the OP just buy a 3/4" Forstner bit......

[Jim Koepke]

Note however that the OP didn't have a brace, hence the recommendation to try a brad-point bit :-).


Have the OP just buy a 3/4" Forstner bit......

A good used brace would likely be cheaper than a Forstner bit. Besides, a Forstner bit isn't the best thing for drilling a straight hole of any depth with a handheld set up.

Heck, if the OP is anywhere near me I'd be likely to give him one of the many spares in my shop.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Another thought came to mind...

When boring large holes with an auger, it can help to rub wax all over the bit.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

I have participated in a number of chair classes in the last few years. In chair classes, as in drilling holes for mortises and dog holes in benches, bits get a heavy workout. Drew Langsner spent almost full time sharpening drill bits in the last class I was in and could not keep 4-5 people in sharp bits. The main issue is heat. Irwin & Jennings drill bits and many other brad point...bits get hot very fast, which translates to them getting dull fast, sometimes in a matter of seconds. This issue only happens if you are attempting to drill a bunch of deep holes in hard wood in a hurry, like for chair classes or bench construction. We switched to my Wood Owl bits and drilled all the holes for all the chairs in less time than it was taking Drew to sharpen a set of bits. If you watch Chris Schwarz and Will Myers latest video on making a Roubo bench, they use Wood Owl bits to drill out all the mortises and to drill all the dog holes. It is very hard to get these bits too hot to touch even drilling all the way through a bench top or chair seat. The reason for this difference in heat loss apparently has to do with the metal alloy used, manufacturing tolerances and a coating that reduces friction. Wood Owl's use Japanese design technologies that other manufacturers have not picked up on, yet. Doubters might go to YouTube, type in Wood Owl bits and see practical demonstrations.


I am ordering the Lee Valley bushings Bill mentions above and a 1" Wood Owl to drill a hole in a 2x for the bushing. I will be done drilling holes in my bench top and legs in a small fraction of the time.

[Chet R Parks]

Patrick, Plus 1 on being accurate in diameter and perpendicular to work surface. About 5 years ago I used a forstner bit in a hand electric drill to drill dog holes. The holes turned out not to be round or perpendicular. Two months later being not satisfied with the holes, I made a new top and this time I used a brace and bit. I found that I not only had better control but it was easier for me to sense and feel that I was drilling straight. True, it's not as good as having a drill press but I have no complaints.
Chet

[Patrick Chase]

I have participated in a number of chair classes in the last few years. In chair classes, as in drilling holes for mortises and dog holes in benches, bits get a heavy workout. Drew Langsner spent almost full time sharpening drill bits in the last class I was in and could not keep 4-5 people in sharp bits. The main issue is heat. Irwin & Jennings drill bits and many other brad point...bits get hot very fast, which translates to them getting dull fast, sometimes in a matter of seconds. This issue only happens if you are attempting to drill a bunch of deep holes in hard wood in a hurry, like for chair classes or bench construction. We switched to my Wood Owl bits and drilled all the holes for all the chairs in less time than it was taking Drew to sharpen a set of bits. If you watch Chris Schwarz and Will Myers latest video on making a Roubo bench, they use Wood Owl bits to drill out all the mortises and to drill all the dog holes. It is very hard to get these bits too hot to touch even drilling all the way through a bench top or chair seat. The reason for this difference in heat loss apparently has to do with the metal alloy used, manufacturing tolerances and a coating that reduces friction. Wood Owl's use Japanese design technologies that other manufacturers have not picked up on, yet. Doubters might go to YouTube, type in Wood Owl bits and see practical demonstrations.

The Wood Owls are to conventional augurs as disposable Japanese saw blades are to traditional hand-sharpened ones.

Like disposable saw blades the Wood Owls have very hard impulse-hardened cutting edges. Those edges will last for a long time, but when they do go dull they're basically done for. They can't be sharpened like a conventional augur, nor can you tweak their geometry as you can with the latter. You might be able to touch them up with a diamond file, but that's about it.

Note that this isn't stating a negative: I use impulse-hardened Japanese saw blades when they make sense, and I'm sorely tempted to pick up some of the Wood Owl augurs.

[steven c newman]

On the dog holes I drilled on my bench......#12 Irwin bit, in that PEXTO 12" brace with the samson chuck.......Worked quite nicely.

One thing...some people drill their dog holes at a slight angle, usually tipping them towards the vise. Seems to help the dogs hold onto a part.

[Mike Holbrook]

The Wood Owls are to conventional augurs as disposable Japanese saw blades are to traditional hand-sharpened ones.

Like disposable saw blades the Wood Owls have very hard impulse-hardened cutting edges. Those edges will last for a long time, but when they do go dull they're basically done for. They can't be sharpened like a conventional augur, nor can you tweak their geometry as you can with the latter. You might be able to touch them up with a diamond file, but that's about it.

Note that this isn't stating a negative: I use impulse-hardened Japanese saw blades when they make sense, and I'm sorely tempted to pick up some of the Wood Owl augurs.

The original poster described an issue he was having getting a cordless electric drill to make proper/precise holes in a workbench. He asked if a hand drill or brace might help as he thought the issue might have to do with the speed of the drill. He was asking specifically about hex shaft drill bits in this context. I believe the Wood Owl bits are the best solution to the job he wants to do. I do not know of anyone who has actually tried these bits who does not think they are a superior option in the context mentioned. I still drill holes with Irwin or Jennings bits and 10-14" sweep braces, but if I want to drill a larger quantity of deeper holes in harder wood I will always use the Wood Owl bits, either in an electric drill or brace. It is fairly easy to dull typical auger bits and or ruin the workpiece because of the greater friction created by "regular" bits, particularly using electric drills at high speeds.

[Patrick Chase]

The original poster described an issue he was having getting a cordless electric drill to make proper/precise holes in a workbench. He asked if a hand drill or brace might help as he thought the issue might have to do with the speed of the drill. He was asking specifically about hex shaft drill bits in this context. I believe the Wood Owl bits are the best solution to the job he wants to do. I do not know of anyone who has actually tried these bits who does not think they are a superior option in the context mentioned. I still drill holes with Irwin or Jennings bits and 10-14" sweep braces, but if I want to drill a larger quantity of deeper holes in harder wood I will always use the Wood Owl bits, either in an electric drill or brace. It is fairly easy to dull typical auger bits and or ruin the workpiece because of the greater friction created by "regular" bits, particularly using electric drills at high speeds.

Yeah, I should have been clearer that I actually agree with you that that's a good solution. I was trying to illuminate the tradeoffs involved (which I think are very interesting), not argue with you.

There aren't that many folks who actually sharpen their augurs anyway, so for a one-off use like this it makes perfect sense to use the impulse-hardened bit. This one (https://www.amazon.com/WoodOwl-09709-Tri-Cut-4-Inch-2-Inch/dp/B0009OAJRQ) looks like it would get the job done (though the 18" version looks more fun :-).

[Mike Holbrook]

My 3/4"x 7" Wood Owl (WO), has been used for quite a few projects over about two years, including a class where the entire class used it. If it is duller than the day I got it, I do not notice it. More impressive to me is how the screw engages and just seems to pull the bit through deep holes, without slipping. "The Samurai Carpenter" runs an 18" WO 15" deep in a post PDQ, on YouTube. He comments after that the bit is barely warm. I have used Silky folding pruning saws, pole saws and woodworking saws with hardened teeth for years without sharpening them. I keep thinking my Iwasaki files/rasps, with hardened edges, will have to be replaced but after years they still seem to cut great too. Then there is my Bowsaw with Japanese blade, Turbo-Cut hardened teeth.... I guess I am a Japanese induction hardened tooth/edge fan.

[Pat Barry]

The high torque requirement is another symptom of a too-coarse screw. It's entirely in keeping with the hex shank though :-).
My 18V Makita can drive a 6 inch ice auger through 28 inches of ice on our frozen lake and do that at least 6 times on a full charge. I don't see any shortage of torque.

[Mike Holbrook]

I sent Wood Owl an email asking about the metal in their bits and whether it can be sharpened. Here is the response:


Hi Mike,
Thanks for the email and the support! That poster is completely incorrect and spewing false information. High-quality kitchen knives are the closest thing to our bits in terms of metal and hardness, and they certainly aren’t disposable.

Our QC team watches the temperature and time of both induction hardening and tempering to provide a perfect hardness for our bits to perform at their class-leading level – all while creating a perfectly concentric bit that doesn’t wander.

With that said, all of our Deep Cut bits and Standard Ship Augers are hand-sharpened before the final parkerized or PTFE coating goes on – and this is the same hand file that we sell for the purpose of re-sharpening. We do not grind a rough edge like many of our Chinese/Brazilian competitors, as we take lots of care with over 2 dozen processes, and there are quite a few precision grindings on all of our bits – just removing a mm of material here and there equates to less friction and better performance.

I have no idea where that person got their information from, but rest assured, all of our bits can and have been re-sharpened over the years – this includes woodworkers, linemen, electricians, etc… Again, our Deep Cut and Standard Ship Augers are sharpened by hand in the factory, and the cutting heads of the Ultra Smooth, Nail Chipper and OverDrive bits are done with a combination of precision machinery and hand grinding at a grinding wheel. (The later three can be sharpened as well, but it takes a smaller needle file and a bit more work to do so.)

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Best regards,
Ken Gratz
General Manager
STAR-M International Ltd.

WoodOwl’s Ultra Smooth™ Augers win Best Wood Bits!

I removed a little of the commercial information, logos.... from Ken's email, as I felt it might not be within the posting rules here.

[Patrick Chase]

I sent Wood Owl an email asking about the metal in their bits and whether it can be sharpened. Here is the response:



I removed a little of the commercial information, logos.... from Ken's email, as I felt it might not be within the posting rules here.

I stand corrected. I ordered one to try, so this should be interesting.

It does raise the question of how they obtain significantly longer life than other quality augurs, since IIRC those are hardened to near the upper limit for conventional files (Rc50-ish). There simply isn't much room to make a harder tool without preventing filing.

Did he happen to say if he's referring to a conventional file, a file-shaped diamond lap, or some super-hard file like Corinox/Valtitan?

To be clear, the reference to "Brazilian/Chinese" augers is a red-herring. Everybody knows those suck. IMO the appropriate point of comparison would be classic Stanley Jennings augers, or the modern Austrian-made ones that TFWW sells. I have both...

[Mike Holbrook]

Patrick,

My original post attempted, briefly, to explain why these bits work better. I am confident that some of the technology involved in the manufacture of these bits is proprietary. I believe Ken provides a few hints above. I am no tool design expert, but I will try again at a little greater length.

These bits are designed from metals that are "better": in terms of weight, ability to transfer heat, especially for drill bits that may be used in electric driving devices that create substantial friction/heat. They are manufactured to much tighter tolerances. The metals are covered in a coating that reduces friction as well. My understanding is that many bits manufactured to lesser tolerances simply do not run as straight and true, which creates friction that become a significant issue in prolonged use. I believe some users, as in the case of hand saws, apply too much pressure to their tool in an attempt to speed up the work. I suspect the "heat treating" of these bits is as much to reduce changes in the metal vs making it harder. As I suspect you are aware, Rockwell hardness is often not the only/major relevant factor in designing a steel for tools. You actually have to use one of these bits to feel the difference.

I suspect the 7/16 "hex" shanks on these bits contributes to how straight and true they run. The"hex" shaft designs are not exactly like most other hex designs. My larger braces, electric hand drills and drill press all seem to make a more secure grip on Wood Owl shafts than they do on the typical, smaller, tapered, square shafts common on Irwin & Jennings auger bits. I will admit to having no clue why the threaded tips of these bits just seem to pull through just about any wood: without pressure, without slipping, just hold on. My guess is the answer lies again in manufacturing tolerances and reduced friction. I also suspect that a significant amount of practical experimentation and tweaking went into the design of these bits.

I will do a little experimentation with my bits before commenting on which devices to use to sharpen them effectively. I just have not needed to sharpen mine yet.

[Patrick Chase]

These bits are designed from metals that are "better": in terms of weight, ability to transfer heat, especially for drill bits that may be used in electric driving devices that create substantial friction/heat. They are manufactured to much tighter tolerances. The metals are covered in a coating that reduces friction as well. My understanding is that many bits manufactured to lesser tolerances simply do not run as straight and true, which creates friction that become a significant issue in prolonged use. I suspect the "heat treating" of these bits is more to reduce changes in the metal vs making it harder. You actually have to use one of these bits to feel the difference.

As an engineer this strikes me as marketing. What specific metals? Which tolerances and how much better? What "changes in the metal" could they reduce to prevent edge dulling without increasing hardness? (I know enough metallurgy that I can think of a couple weak possibilities, but I want you to explain yourself using commonly accepted principles of physics).

The idea that a steel can be "lighter in weight" is risible as they all have very nearly the same density. The only way they can be made lighter in weight is to use less.

Are you saying that you think that WoodOwl can magically access alloys and machining processes that Fisch in Austria (the maker of TFWW's Jennings augers) cannot? That seems extremely dubious, given that Fisch is an extremely well-respected cutting tool brand and WoodOwl are comparative nobodies.

The claim that any hex has better grip than a properly machined taper is... novel. I'll have to see that when I get mine. Note that braces have a much "deeper" grip on taper bits than on hex, so the impact of any machining/tolerance error on trueness is worse with hex shafts (not the other way around).

The bottom line is that I see claims here ("far longer lasting" than a bit that is already just barely soft enough to hand file, and yet "easy to hand file") that seem incompatible with laws of physics. The fact that Ken Gratz cited "Brazilian and Chinese" bits in his mail to you makes me think that we're not comparing to the same baseline.

[Mike Holbrook]

Patrick,
I was making some changes to my post above as you responded. It is my understanding that Rockwell hardness scale is often given too much relevance in the design of steels for tools. Guys who make knives talk about toughness vs hardness. A jack hammer bit gets destroyed almost immediately if very hard steel is used. From the little I know the toughness/brittleness of the steels composition has to be adjusted relative to how hard the impact on how thin a surface....Certainly what ranges of heat may change the steel are relevant factors. Some metals transfer heat better than others. Obviously I do not have access to exactly how much of what metals Wood Owl uses. Axes typically use different steels, treated differently than knives because they are made to take greater impact. I will respectfully decline to discuss principals of physics with an engineer.

[steven c newman]

Two things jump out from the above....only way for Patrick to find out..is to actually buy one and test it out for himself.....two....Patrick's arguement should be directed at the company that MAKES these bits...arguing with people here solves....NOTHING> Patrick instead chooses to shoot the messengers, as usual....not the source.

[Patrick Chase]

I was making some changes to my post above as you responded. It is my understanding that Rockwell hardness scale is often given too much relevance in the design of steels for tools. Guys who make knives talk about toughness vs hardness. A very hard jack hammer bit gets destroyed almost immediately if very hard steel is used. From the little I know the toughness/brittleness of the steels composition has to be adjusted relative to how hard the impact on how thin a surface....Certainly what ranges of heat may change the steel are relevant factors. Some metals transfer heat better than others. Axes typically use different steels, treated differently than knives because they are made to take greater impact. I will respectfully decline to discuss principals of physics with an engineer.

Fair enough. You're right that people who treat hardness as everything are mistaken. It certainly isn't the only factor, though it's probably the single most important individual one.


Two things jump out from the above....only way for Patrick to find out..is to actually buy one and test it out for himself.....two....Patrick's arguement should be directed at the company that MAKES these bits...arguing with people here solves....NOTHING> Patrick instead chooses to shoot the messengers, as usual....not the source.

Steven, you keep bringing this up so let's address it.

In the combo plane thread you posted a bunch of obviously false claims *without adequately identifying your source*. Under those conditions it was and is entirely reasonable to reply to you, as you were the one posting the claims.

Furthermore when we did track down your source we discovered that you had significantly altered the specifics of the claims that you posted (for example you mangled the iron-length critique to the point where the version posted in SMC said something rather different than the original about the behavior of "NOS irons"). That being the case it was entirely reasonable to challenge those errors on the SMC thread, as they were entirely yours.

I generally don't post something unless I'm willing to answer for it.

[steven c newman]

Shooting the messenger again.....grabbing at a straw? I have Irwin and Jennings bits....quite happy with them...


Why am I even talking to a Troll?

[Mike Holbrook]

Are you saying that you think that WoodOwl can magically access alloys and machining processes that Fisch in Austria (the maker of TFWW's Jennings augers) cannot? That seems extremely dubious, given that Fisch is an extremely well-respected cutting tool brand and WoodOwl are comparative nobodies.

I don't think it is fair to call Wood Owl bits "nobodies" relative to the TFWW bits. I understand Wood Owl won a "Pro Tool Innovation Award" (PITA) in 2016 for wood drill bit design. I believe in TFWW and their tools, but the Wood Owl bits are around half the price of the TFWW bits. I believe the Fisch bits are designed more as copies of older bits, to replace bits that may be missing from older sets. The Wood Owl bits are designed to work in higher speed electric drills, that may heat the steel much faster. I find the Wood Owls work as well or better in braces too. I think you should wait and try using a Wood Owl bit in your drills and braces before passing judgement, as Steve suggests. I think you will find that the Wood Owl bit will make cleaner holes in less time and require less sharpening. If Steve is happy with the bits and braces he has then he does not need new bits. The OP was having problems that I think the Wood Owl bits are uniquely designed to compensate for.