Wide Belt Sander - Powermatic or Safety Speed Or Other Options

[Robert Bonenfant]

We are looking at buying either a Powermatic Wb-25 or a Safety Speed 3760.

Wanted to see if anyone has any recommendation of the two options - The Saftey Speed was recommended by my local tool dealer but the powermatic looks like a cleaner build.

Powermatic - 25" Wide with Digital Read out ($13K Shipped to me )

Safety Speed - 37" Wide ($12K Shipped)

We currently have a supermax drum sander and its great but it leaves small lines in the wood that need to be orbital sanded off. We are hoping a wide belt sander will give our products a nice finish sanding and not leave any lines on the final pass. Links for both are below

https://www.safetyspeed.com/product/3760-wide-belt-sander/
http://www.powermatic.com/us/en/p/wb-25-25-sander-15hp-3ph-230-460v-with-dro/1790825

I think I posted in wrong section can a Mod move this - Thanks

[David Kumm]

It looks like adding the digital readout and the power table puts the SSC higher to be comparable. What is the contact drum diameter and is it steel or hard rubber on the SSC? A digital readout is a very nice item. The thickness measurement feature on the PM is no big deal in my world. Digital calipers get you to the same place. I'm unclear if both tracking systems are the same. Electric eye coupled with pneumatic is better than pneumatic only and requires much less air. My SCMI has a two speed conveyor and I don't wish for variable speed so that is nice but not needed. Dave

[Robert Bonenfant]

Thanks for the input Dave,
From what im reading both machines have tracking systems. I checked out safety speeds website and they off a digital caliper as a add on. I have a few powermatic tools so i might go with them.

[David Kumm]

I retrofitted the Proscale used by SSC on my SCMI Sandya Win. If you luck into one of them, take a look. They were Italian and pretty refined for a lower end unit. Cantek would be similar to the PM. I would guess that most of the Taiwan machines might be made in the same factory. I'd want Taiwan over China in a WB. EMC, SCMI, Butfering, and Houfek are the only Euro choices at the lower to mid level. Weber is a step up. Extrema would be similar to PM as well. Dave

[John Sincerbeaux]

ANY WB sander will blow doors on your drum sander.
I would look into a pre-owned Italian made machine over a new Asian machine.
In the smaller, mid range category, NEW, I like Houfek.

[Martin Wasner]

Take a look at an EZ Sander (http://ezsanders.com/woodworking-sander). Acme sells them. The parent company is Apex, which is based here in Minnesota. Looks like a good little sander.

[Darcy Warner]

Rather buy a used arm, timesavers or ramco instead of a used scmi. I am currently working on getting my 43" two Danckeart up and running.

[Martin Wasner]

We currently have a supermax drum sander and its great but it leaves small lines in the wood that need to be orbital sanded off. We are hoping a wide belt sander will give our products a nice finish sanding and not leave any lines on the final pass


You will NOT have finish ready items coming out of a widebelt. It will leave a scratch orientated just like get with your drum sander. They will still require sanding with an orbital

There is an orbital sander like a widebelt, just no belt, out there, I've only used one. Parts still required sanding after going through it, but it was really minimal. Everything had to go through a widebelt before the buffing machine still though. It was only capable of taking off a few thousandths.

[glenn bradley]

You will NOT have finish ready items coming out of a widebelt. It will leave a scratch orientated just like get with your drum sander. They will still require sanding with an orbital There is an orbital sander like a widebelt, just no belt, out there, I've only used one. Parts still required sanding after going through it, but it was really minimal. Everything had to go through a widebelt before the buffing machine still though. It was only capable of taking off a few thousandths.

I am glad someone mentioned this. I was worried about your expectations. If the reason for the upgrade is to avoid additional sanding you will be disappointed. If the reason is capacity you will be happy. Dual belt machines offer the benefit of two grits which gets you even closer to "done". We've all seen cabinets at the Big Box stores that obviously went from machine to finish. Some outfits think enough poly will cure anything, and that's fine. Its just not for me.

[Robert Bonenfant]

Martin,

A wide belt sander wont give us a nice finish sand with 180 grit or higher ??

Thats the main reason we wanted a wide belt sander - Our items come off our Cnc looking almost perfect but the back sides just need a quick sand to remove the small amount of wood bur from the cutting process. They wouldn't have to be perfect but we cant have small lines running through them. Each item takes about 32 seconds to sand with a orbital. Thanks for the advice martin Im definitively going to have some testing done before we buy - Dont want to spend $13K on a machines thats not going to save us any time.

Thanks everyone else for the advice as well - We want to stay away from used machines, we haven't been very luck in the past with buying used.

[David Kumm]

You should take some stock to someone with a single head WB and run some tests. Drum only, and drum with platen, both hard and soft. The scratch pattern is different when the platen is not used and the platen can also very slightly round the sharp edges vs a drum only head. Your drum sander sounds to have a drum problem to leave lines. There really shouldn't be much difference in finish quality using a drum only with either type of sander. A WB will also not sander veneer ply unless very expensive with segmented platen and anti dubbing feature. The normal machines are solid wood or thick veneer on a flat substrate only machines. WB is much faster and paper lasts longer but I don't believe the finish is much different unless you are stressing the lighter duty drum sander. Dave

[Martin Wasner]

Martin,

A wide belt sander wont give us a nice finish sand with 180 grit or higher ??

Thats the main reason we wanted a wide belt sander - Our items come off our Cnc looking almost perfect but the back sides just need a quick sand to remove the small amount of wood bur from the cutting process. They wouldn't have to be perfect but we cant have small lines running through them. Each item takes about 32 seconds to sand with a orbital. Thanks for the advice martin Im definitively going to have some testing done before we buy - Dont want to spend $13K on a machines thats not going to save us any time.

Thanks everyone else for the advice as well - We want to stay away from used machines, we haven't been very luck in the past with buying used.


For what we do, 99% of the time, it wouldn't pass. We hit with 120 grit on the first head drum only, and 180 grit on the second head being a drum/platen. The widebelt I have now, leaves the best scratch I've seen. To be fair, I've only used about six different widebelt sanders. Our orbital time is pretty minimal, but it still needs to be done. It's a not a cheap sander either. It's well tuned, and the only improvement we could really make with the machine we have is to use a paper back on the second head instead of cloth backed. We abuse the snot out of abrasives in that machine, and it's just more cost effective for us to go with lesser finish, but longer belt life.

Most of the time we're actually roughing the surface back up too. Most of the time we are finish sanding to 150 grit with an orbital unless it's being stained or a picky material like walnut where all it wants to do is swirl.

Depends what you're looking to get from it, but if you're looking for no lines, it's not happening. It's inherent to the operation.

Going further than 180 grit in a widebelt is tough, but you spend a lot of time getting there unless you're running many heads. I've got the chart somewhere, but you're only going to be pulling a few thousandths of material with 220 grit.

[Bradley Gray]

Maybe you should look at an oscillating drum sander if drum sander speed isn't the problem. if all you are doing is de-burring from the CNC even a dual drum sander set up with 180/220 could work for a lot less $.

[Jim Andrew]

I have a small Grizzly widebelt, with platen, and always do a once over with a ros before applying any finish. There used to be a door shop a few miles away, they had a sander that looked like a widebelt, but it was random orbit, for sanding doors.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

I have currently a 37", 20hp Cantek with a single belt, two rollers and a platen. I love it. Digital setting accurate to one thousandth. Optical tracking and very good dust collection. Been running it going on 7 years, daily. I'd have a look at these machines as they are well built and economical.

Not sure why I keep reading this, but I put a LOT of veneers (both particle core, MDF core and veneer core) through our sander, as did I also when I had our Sicar 2 head 37" sander from 89' to 2010.

You don't need a fancy sander to sand veneers. Just a good, well set up machine with decent papers and of course good quality plywood that is consistently thick. I only buy plywood that is made here in Canada, but its consitant. Again, I sand a lot of veneer through the wide belt and it just fine.

[John Sincerbeaux]

I have currently a 37", 20hp Cantek with a single belt, two rollers and a platen. I love it. Digital setting accurate to one thousandth. Optical tracking and very good dust collection. Been running it going on 7 years, daily. I'd have a look at these machines as they are well built and economical.

Not sure why I keep reading this, but I put a LOT of veneers (both particle core, MDF core and veneer core) through our sander, as did I also when I had our Sicar 2 head 37" sander from 89' to 2010.

You don't need a fancy sander to sand veneers. Just a good, well set up machine with decent papers and of course good quality plywood that is consistently thick. I only buy plywood that is made here in Canada, but its consitant. Again, I sand a lot of veneer through the wide belt and it just fine.

Are you talking about commercial veneer glued to plywood panels? Yikes!
And if so, why?

just curious��

[Dave Cav]

I have had a SSC for several years. Very happy with it. It replaced a Woodmaster I didn't like very much. Generally sand to 180 with the platen then lightly sand with ROS.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

Mostly to flush sand applied solid edging. A light pass both faces.

I also lay up my own veneers periodically.

And sometimes, like the op, after parts cone off the CNC I like to lightly sand both faces to get rid of any fuzziness. Especially on the bottom side since I mainly use downcut bits.

[Alan Lightstone]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but could someone explain to me what the platen is, and how it is used?

[Martin Wasner]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but could someone explain to me what the platen is, and how it is used?

It's typically a felt pad with graphite paper that sits just below the height of the drum. The drum contacts the material, then the platen. The platen has a larger contact area, and less pressure on the material so a finer finished scratch is achieved.

Some platens are an air bladder, some use little fingers and distort the belt for things like veneer so it doesn't burn through to the substrate. Most are the felt pad though.

When doing anything but a final pass, the platen should either be pulled out, or raised up. Depends on the machine as to which is easier. I can do both with mine, but prefer to just pull it out since it's dummy proof that way

[Todd Leback]

<p>
I&#39;m also in the market for a wide belt sander. Not a huge one, mostly just something to clean up face frame stock prior to assembly. I see Grizzly has got an 18&quot; wide model (the G0527), but it looks like it doesn&#39;t have a platen. Is this going to make a huge difference, or should I be looking at something the next size up? I&#39;ve got a small custom shop with six guys, for reference.</p>
<p>
&nbsp;</p>
<p>
EDIT: I&#39;ve got no idea what is going on with the text!</p>