Sources for external door stain?

[John TenEyck]

I am about to make a front door for a client and will need to use a stain/varnish combination to get the color and finish needed. Besides General Finishes, who makes stains rated for exterior use under varnish?

John

[John TenEyck]

Really? Nobody has stained an exterior door?

I did find that Hood makes some WB stains rated for exterior use.

John

[Lee Schierer]

I've never used them for exterior applications but, a quick search of the MinWax site shows that Minwax® Pro Series Multi-Surface Wiping Stains (http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/stains/minwax-pro-series-multisurface-wiping-stain) and Minwax® Gel Stains (http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/stains/minwax-gel-stain) are rated for outdoor use.

[Adam Herman]

we may not be quick around here, but we will get you some info eventually.

Sikkens seems to be a favorite of the marine industry. They have only few colors, more like tinted varnishes. They hold up incredibly well though.

is the door going to be covered by a porch roof or similar? what kind of climate? what species?

[John TenEyck]

Thanks. The MinWax products don't appear to be compatible with WB topcoats, or maybe they are just pushing their own spar varnish products. I really want to use a WB topcoat, either GF's Exterior 450 or Target Coatings EM6300 (?), so the stain has to be compatible.

The door is covered by a porch and storm door, so direct water exposure is not an issue, but it does get some afternoon sun on the lower half of the door. I'm in western NY (Niagara Falls) so it's true 4 seasons here. I'm thinking of using Douglas fir. Construction will be veneer over stave core, frame and panel.

John

[Edwin Santos]

John,
Since your door does get some sun exposure, my main concern with most stains is UV stability. When faced with sunlight, most stains collapse like a house of cards.

What I would do is formulate my own oil based stain using japan color as my colorant. Japan colors were the traditional choice for sign painters.

I have had very good success doing this many times, recently on a project a year ago using Van Dyke Brown japan color, BLO, mineral spirits and (I think) some thinned varnish. It wiped on very well and if you keep it a little thick you can use it like a glaze to adjust areas and blend with a blender brush if needed. In my case I topcoated with Waterlox marine spar varnish, but you could topcoat with WB however I would experiment first, and see if you need to introduce a sprayed on barrier coat of shellac before the topcoat(s). With a barrier coat of dewaxed shellac, in my experience every stain becomes compatible with every topcoat.

You can get a wide range of basic building block colors and when combined with a color wheel, you should be able to formulate any color you wish. I use the Ronan brand. Hope this is helpful, it's surprisingly easy and has stood up admirably to the harsh sun in the Southwestern desert.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks Edwin. Your approach is on my radar - but I hope I don't have to go that route. I have to believe there are commercial exterior rated stains that will meet my needs. I just need to find them. Since my wood choice changed from Sapele to Douglas fir, the GF colors I've seen on their color chart may meet my needs. But I'd like to get educated with more companies/options who make exterior stains because there will be more house doors in the future.

John

[Edwin Santos]

Thanks Edwin. Your approach is on my radar - but I hope I don't have to go that route. I have to believe there are commercial exterior rated stains that will meet my needs. I just need to find them. Since my wood choice changed from Sapele to Douglas fir, the GF colors I've seen on their color chart may meet my needs. But I'd like to get educated with more companies/options who make exterior stains because there will be more house doors in the future.

John
Hi John,
I haven't used them myself, but the Cabot line of exterior stains might be an option for you. I have heard they are a good product and popular with boat builders. If remember correctly, they have a wide range of colors in varying degrees of transparency. What I do not know is their compatibility with your chosen topcoat, but you should be able to find out easily enough. And of course, you have the barrier coat option if needed although it is an extra step.
Edwin

[Robert LaPlaca]

John, Epifanes has a marine stain, https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=97585&familyName=Epifanes+Dutch+Mahogany+Stain

Additionally, IIRC Lockwood dyes has a metal complex dye that is more light fast for exterior use

[John TenEyck]

Thanks Robert.

The Epifanes product only comes in mahogany and wouldn't be compatible with a WB topcoat. No cigar there. The Lockwood dyes might be something, but they don't actually say it's rated for exterior use. Transtint dyes are metal complex dyes, too, and their datasheet says it's not rated for exterior use. Hmmm.

John

[John TenEyck]

Hi John,
I haven't used them myself, but the Cabot line of exterior stains might be an option for you. I have heard they are a good product and popular with boat builders. If remember correctly, they have a wide range of colors in varying degrees of transparency. What I do not know is their compatibility with your chosen topcoat, but you should be able to find out easily enough. And of course, you have the barrier coat option if needed although it is an extra step.
Edwin


Thanks Edwin. I've never thought of using Cabot's exterior stains for furniture type work and I didn't see anything in their literature suggesting it can be. But maybe I missed something so I'll have another look.

John

[John TenEyck]

I found that ZAR UltraMax and Oil Based Interior stains are OK on exterior doors, which makes me wonder if most anyone's pigmented stain would work as long as you put a UV capable finish over it.

John

[Edwin Santos]

John,
You might be right, my only worry would be sun exposure and color stability. If you have the time, maybe the answer is to make up a sample board and leave it out in the sun to see if you detect any shift.

Another thought that comes to mind is Behlen's line of Solar Lux NGR dye stains. These stains are highly fade and UV resistant. I'm certain they are compatible with the waterborne topcoat you have in mind.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks Edwin. I don't think the solar lux dyes are rated for exterior use. I'd be very hesitant to use any dye. Stains made with oxide pigments are the only colorants I'm confident in in long term fade resistance. I won't have time to do any testing as you would have to wait at least several months just to know what doesn't work let alone years to prove something does. So I need a proven product. At this point the GF exterior and Zar products are the only ones I've found. I'm going to stop at my local BM store later this week to see what they recommend.

John