Felder FB710 vs MM20 or MM24

[Alan Lightstone]

Not sure if I'm opening up a hornet's nest here (At least I'm not mentioning Sawstop), but I'm looking at bandsaws with decent power and resaw capability.

I've got it narrowed down to the Felder FB710, Minimax MM20, or perhaps even the Minimax MM24.

What are people's thoughts as to these options? Advantages, disadvantages to them.

Not sure how many people have owned several of these, but any and all advice would be quite welcome. Thanks.

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm happy with the 20, I use the hell out of it without complaint. If you can afford the space for the 24 I would get it just to have the extra table.

I thought I would never use 20" resaw but I've come close having resawed 19" wide veneers. Big slabs aren't too bad to resaw if need be.

[Mike Heidrick]

I own a mm20 and love it but a mm24 would fit my med bandsaw feeder better.

[Jim Becker]

All are good machines. MiniMax band saws are built like tanks and have been a major focus of SCM's MiniMax line for a long time. Felder has good offerings, but they are more recent to the bandsaw market, I believe. You can't go wrong with any of them, but I admit, I have a penchant for MiniMax tools. :)

[Anthony Spotorno]

I have the MM24. I use it only for resawing. Built like a tank, but dust collection absolutely, positively SUX!

I've added additional foam around the base, custom wood insert in the holder, etc. Nothing helps, it spews dust everywhere. Just something to consider.

Even with the dust issue, I would not trade it in for a Felder.

[Alan Lightstone]

I have the MM24. ...

Even with the dust issue, I would not trade it in for a Felder.

Why is that? What advantages do you see it having over the Felder?

[Brian Holcombe]

I don't have much of a dust issue with mine, aside from entering the cut. Once the saw is in the cut it works fine. I do, however have strong dust collection which at the moment is entirely dedicated to the bandsaw.

[David Kumm]

I have a friend with a 710 who is an anal machine guy. He is happy with the 710 and actually went to the effort of testing the FB saws for tension. The 710 can tension a 1" Trimaster carbide blade to at least 25K which is my rule of thumb for a resaw machine. The 610 topped off at 20k. A MM 24 will also tension to 25K but I don't have numbers on the 20". There are other factors involved but tensioning is my most important. I am not a huge fan of Italian motors but they are at least equal or slightly better than the Chinese motors. There are some decent Asian motors and not all tell you where they are built. Look at motor efficiency. If less than 89% ( three phase ) or not listed, the motor is likely Chinese. US or Euro motors are usually 92+% efficient. Not a deal breaker but something to consider. All things equal, I'd take an ACM 740 or Centauro 700 over the FB but I think the comparison with a MM 24 is close and I'd probably take the 710 over the MM 20- but I like the 28" size. My go to saw is a 30" Oliver 217 which is a whole different level IMO. Dave

[Travis Porter]

I have the MM24, and I have a friend with the Felder. Looking at the chassis I would guess they are both made by Centauro. I too found the dust collection lacking as commented by a previous poster. I replaced all the foam around the doors and added an a port in the top and it helped a lot. One dust port is not enough.

i think my saw has more resaw capacity than my friends, but his came with a better set of guides. I think MM has since changed the guides, but that is one item I would compare to help determine which to buy.

They are both built like tanks, that is for sure.

Best wishes

[Anthony Spotorno]

I got quotes for both models, MM24 was about 1000.00 cheaper.
Almost 6" higher resaw capability on the MM24.

[Anthony Spotorno]

I have the MM24, and I have a friend with the Felder. Looking at the chassis I would guess they are both made by Centauro. I too found the dust collection lacking as commented by a previous poster. I replaced all the foam around the doors and added an a port in the top and it helped a lot. One dust port is not enough.

i think my saw has more resaw capacity than my friends, but his came with a better set of guides. I think MM has since changed the guides, but that is one item I would compare to help determine which to buy.

They are both built like tanks, that is for sure.

Best wishes

Travis, do you happen to have a picture of how you added an additional port at the top?

[Travis Porter]

368648
My MM24 has some holes in it at the top that had rubber plugs in them. I used a a 2 inch adapter after taking one out. Kept from having to cut into the chassis.

[Anthony Spotorno]

Ok, I have those as well. Think they were to hoist the unit with a crane... I'll have to add a hose there as well. Tnx

[Brian Holcombe]

What sort of dust collectors are you two using? One of my other woodworking friends commented the same issue with his saw, but I believe it due to a lack of CFM. IIRC SCM recommends something like 400-500cfm, but IMO that is not enough. I setup the collection so that it provides something like 1200cfm at the machine and aside from the spray that happens when I start the cut the great majority of the remaining sawdust is collected.

I have been resawing stacks of white oak for drawers and at the end of a few hours of sawing I might sweep up around the machine from those starts but everything else is fairly clear, there is no noticeable dust in the air or anything of that nature. There is a bit of dust in the bottom of the machine typically but not so much as to be alarming.

[Denis Kenzior]

I'm the guy Dave mentioned. I went through a similar decision process a few years ago and ended up with the FB710. I was upgrading from a Laguna LT3000 and needed a saw that could tension 1" carbide blades adequately. Every vendor claimed it 'could' do it but most were never able to provide actual numbers. E.g. stiffness of the spring, spring travel, realistic tension a given saw could achieve etc.

Biggest piece of advice I can give is to make sure you see some of your candidates in person. I contacted Felder and Minimax who provided me with contact details of owners in my area. I saw the older version of the MM24, the FB610, MM20 and MM16 in person. All are nice saws, I liked the size of the 24" saws. The MM20 seemed a bit too small and not enough of an upgrade over the 18". I wanted to fit the biggest saw into my rather low ceiling. Footprint wise, there wasn't a whole lot of difference between the 24/28" saws and the 18". In the end it was down to a choice between MM24 and FB710. At the time MM24 was more expensive, not stocked in 3 phase. Most importantly it was a bit taller than the FB710 due to its 24" resaw height. So I didn't think it would fit and sales could not confirm the height with 100% certainty, go figure. I went with the Felder.

One nice feature of all the FB series saws is the ability to add extension tables. Ones from Aigner or Felder work, but I also made my own. I use them all the time. Even with the huge table, extra support is nice. You can add something similar to any saw, but with Felder it came standard. I also preferred the ceramic guides over euro or ball bearing ones. This is probably more due to familiarity, coming from a Laguna saw. I can confirm that the 710 will tension a 1" carbide blade (Lenox woodmaster CT) to 25kpsi. Confirmed via 2 different Lenox tension meters. My 710 also came with DC injection braking and not a foot brake. I prefer the injection brake. Motor is 7.5 HP and the whole saw runs very smooth. If you have specific questions, please ask. Here are a couple of shots of the FB710 in my workshop:

[Alan Lightstone]

I'm the guy Dave mentioned.

snip...

My 710 also came with DC injection braking and not a foot brake. I prefer the injection brake. Motor is 7.5 HP and the whole saw runs very smooth. If you have specific questions, please ask.
Denis:

Thanks for the first hand input on the FB710.

I do have a question. What is DC Injection Braking?

[Bruce Walton]

DC injection braking is a method of slowing AC electric motors. A DC voltage is injected into the winding of the AC motor after the AC voltage is disconnected, providing braking force to the rotor.

[richard poitras]

I have a Laguna 18 with the ceramic guilds and a drift master fence and really like mine. I think if the MM is a $1000.00 less I would go that wrought as others seem to imply they are comparable in quality.
Good luck …

[Denis Kenzior]

What Bruce said. But essentially there are four kinds of braking on these saws:

1. No braking, the blade stops.... eventually
2. Mechanical foot brake. Works sort of like a brake on your bicycle.
3. Mechanical motor brake. A motor is equipped with a friction disc type material and an electromagnet. When the machine is powered on, a current is applied to the electromagnet which releases the brake disc. When the machine is turned off, current is stopped, causing the magnet to pull the disc and brake the motor. Braking the motor stops the lower wheel and consequently the upper wheel (since the blade connects them).
4. DC injection or electric brake. On power off a DC current is applied to one of the windings which causes the motor to stop.

I like 4 the most. It is a slick system but adds some extra complexity to the machine electrical system. However it is essentially maintenance free unlike 2 & 3. Though in hobby use you would never wear out your brakes anyway, so maybe it is a moot point.

[Joshua Bass]

I got quotes for both models, MM24 was about 1000.00 cheaper.
Almost 6" higher resaw capability on the MM24.

Similar story, but different. I was comparing the MM16 vs Felder FB 510. The quotes I got brought the MM in at about 1k under the Felder. However Felder often runs sales and the sale price would have beat the Minimax price (based on my research, and recent experience with their sales). I would never buy a Felder at their non-sale prices because you can save 1-2k by waiting a few months. It looks like they have multiple sales every year. I few them as near equivalent machines and you will be happy with either brand.

[Alan Lightstone]

Similar story, but different. I was comparing the MM16 vs Felder FB 510. The quotes I got brought the MM in at about 1k under the Felder. However Felder often runs sales and the sale price would have beat the Minimax price (based on my research, and recent experience with their sales). I would never buy a Felder at their non-sale prices because you can save 1-2k by waiting a few months. It looks like they have multiple sales every year. I few them as near equivalent machines and you will be happy with either brand.
How do you know when Felder is having a sale? The rep is mentioning discounts when buying multiple pieces of equipment, but not a formal "sale" on their equipment.

[Alan Lightstone]

I've narrowed it down to the MM24 and the Felder FB710.

Both are beasts, it looks like the Felder has a larger table (plus easy addition of table extensions), ceramic guides (which I've liked on my Laguna), but "only" has 18-1/8" of resaw capacity compared to the Minimax having 24" of resaw capacity (which I don't think I will use often, but is pretty amazing). The Felder has a larger throat of 27" compared to "only" 22.8" on the MM24. I would think that's far more important in practice (although I do have one project I could use the larger resaw capacity for. That being said, I'm not spending this much money for a single small project).

Supposedly the MM24 can tension a 1.5" blade, but can it really tension that to 25K? The Felder has a max blade size of 1-1/8". As stated above, it can tension that to 25K.

Any thoughts as to the above specs?

[David Kumm]

Neither machine needs a blade larger than 1" if tensioned properly. I run a 1" on my Oliver 116 which is a 36" machine with 21" of resaw. When resawing wide stock, feeding by hand creates the most inconsistency. A wider blade might benefit a feeder in a production setting but neither the MM or the 710 will tension a Trimaster wider than 1". Remember, the band thickness of a 1" is .035 vs .042 for a 1.25". I only use the larger oliver about once a year as the 14" resaw of the 217 handles 99% of my needs. With high tension on the Trimaster I sometimes remove the top guides to gain a few inches. A good saw with a good resaw blade doesn't really need guides. Both Centauro and ACM make 24-17" saws as well as 700 and 740 respectively with approx the same resaw height. Those would be my favorite sizes were it not for the 217. A well tuned cast iron saw is a step up but I'm biased. Dave

[Mike Heidrick]

Pretty easy to put ceramic guides from laguna on my mm20 and i made a how to webpage on it if you google it. If that helps kake a decision. Also you can drill and tap the mm table for whatever you need. Personally id build seperate out feed tables if needed.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Bringing this thread back from the dead a bit...does anyone know the actual height (off the floor) of the MM 24? I’ve googled for the last 20 minutes and am still coming up empty handed with overall height of the machine.

[Jim Becker]

Message Sam Blasco to get the current heights.

Sam Blasco
Minimax Product Line Manager
sam.blasco@scmgroup.com (sblasco@scmgroup.com)
512-931-1962 (tel:512-931-1962) (shop)
512-796-3036 (tel:512-796-3036) (mobile)

[Phillip Mitchell]

Thanks Jim. I just sent him an email.

[Anthony Spotorno]

The MM24 stands 89" tall, if you need to know anything else about the unit just let me know.

[Alan Lightstone]

Since we resurrected this from the dead, I wanted to chime in and say that I did buy the Felder FB710 with DC Injection Braking. It is a beast, and has been great. No issues at all, works like a charm. The braking is a different paradigm than the foot brake I was used to on my old Laguna bandsaw, but works great.