Zipp system sheathing

[Jeff Bartley]

Does anyone here have experience with the Huber Zipp System sheathing? It's compelling but expensive. And now you can get it with closed cell foam bonded to the inside which would really boost the R value of the wall.

For the roof sheathing it's attractive because once sheathed all you do is tape the seams.

I'd love to hear from anyone with first-hand experience. Thanks! Jeff

[Martin Wasner]

I see it on a lot of homes. I'm not sure I'm sold on it. Tyvek is pretty bulletproof. I'm curious how it does in ten or twenty years.

I'm not sure I've seen it on a roof here. Still tar paper with ice/water at the edges. Or all ice/water on a steel roof if sheeted.

[Darcy Warner]

Everyone I know that cares, has made the switch. Dried in right away, no fussing with hanging house wrap.

[peter gagliardi]

Basically OSB with pretty paint on it. Cheap crap that sells for a lot. Lots of hype.
It is not sealed, every nail hole in it will leak given a bit of rain, let alone air infiltration.
I still use real fir plywood, and cover it with Blueskin if you ask me to build your house.
20 guys, 20 opinions.

[Martin Wasner]

A builder I used to work for, still swore by felt.

[Darcy Warner]

180 day exposure guarantee, 30 year system warranty.
Tape seams, nothing required over nail heads unless over driven. Permeable, allows internal moisture out, thermal break, etc. Yes, just paint on it.

[Bill Dufour]

I do not see how it can meet any wind or seismic codes? Looks like osb with foam glued on it. No way to drive nails down hard and tight as required by code. having a shear panel float several inches off the framing does not do much to strengthen a wall. Or do you install it foam out and drive a nail flush every 3 inches? I do not think a nailgun would do that. Then you would have to foam over each nail divot.
Sounds worse then clipped head nails
Bill

[Jeff Bartley]

Peter, I would doubted advantech subfloor too but over the last 15 years I've seen a lot of the stuff (it's also a Huber product) and it's pretty amazing. And, what's blueskin? I'm not familiar with that.

Unfortunately the prices of sheet goods, particularly regular OSB and CDX have really gone up lately so it's not as much a stretch to get to Zip prices.

Bill, the ZipR is installed foam side inboard, and that's a good point about the shear load. For my application it's a non-issue as I plan to use ply or OSB on the interior walls.

Darcy is right about the warranty with one caveat: the seams must be taped within 24 hours of installation. I guess you'd have to take pictures of every step to prove your timeline if ever there were an issue?

Another notable about the warranty is that it's much longer now than when this stuff was fresh on the market. I guess that's a positive, right?

Jeff (who's still hoping someone with first hand experience will chime in.....)

[roger wiegand]

It's what is on our house (both walls and roof), I've just used it in rebuilding the back side of the barn. Lot's easier than hanging Tyvek in the wind single-handed. Unfortunately I have no way of assessing its performance, other than the shingles and clapboards haven't fallen off. It's what is used in 95% of new construction around here, probably because it allows you to dry in quickly and will withstand relatively long exposure.

[peter gagliardi]

There is no doubt it is in widespread use. OSB has been as well for decades. We have also been seeing the results of OSB and Tyvek type products longevity over the years, and are now replacing much of it.
It is an aspen flake product which has little to no resistance to rot when moisture gets in it- it will, just a question of how much and how often. That is why we have new products and procedures like cedar breather, and rainscreen type setups.

One thing I must say, is that in the last 30 or so years of using just about every brand of air nailer out there, there is 1 constant- there is not a nailer made that can consistently drive flush.
Material density variability, and compressor capability, length of hose, etc...
Oh, and remember if sheathing a house, your corner sheets must be turned vertical with OSB type products, unlike plywood, where you can run them all level.
I have used the Zip system once- my brother bought it for his house, I just wasn't impressed.

[Darcy Warner]

Zip wall and even regular old osb can be installed horizontal over the entire structure. It is the same strength in both directions. Water damage from infiltration is due to poor flashing and building details, not because of the product. My coil framing nailer will sink nails consistently all day long in anything, the depth of drive is easily adjustable. No where oh Huber's installation instructions does it say, or require sheeting to be run vertical.

[peter gagliardi]

OSB, and Zipwall, as far as I know- flakeboard products in general all have a strength axis- lengthwise on the sheet.
Building inspectors here require vertical sheets at corners on flakeboard products.
Who said anything about infiltration in particular? Tyvek is known to trap water vapor leading to condensation between the Tyvek and OSB. This is pretty common knowledge.
You must have a very special nailer.

[Darcy Warner]

A max. Please find me any information on Huber's site that says corners have to be installed vertical.

The only issue with horizontal is extra blocking at the horizontal seams, but it's that way with any sheet good.

[James Biddle]

The ZIPP-R can be installed vertically or horizontally (Sheathing installation manual page 3). The wind shear rating on the system is somewhat convoluted in the specs.

Overdriven nails do not have to be sealed in any way, but the the shear strength may be reduced (Installation Tips; Overdriven Fasteners in Zipp System sheathing).

Note that although The ZIPP system advertises a 30 year warranty, they limit the warranty to the original homeowner and some...strange...exclusions. The-ZIPP-R is not watt anted for roof applications in the US.

If you want to use the ZIPP-R systems as part of a larger insulation system (and who wouldn't), you need to pay attention to the overall insulation design as to not trap moisture between air barriers with no mean of permeance.

[Bob Falk]

Jeff,
I built an addition to my house (w/22'x24' shop) and I used the Zipp system for the walls and sheathing. See photo below. I was the GC on this addition and though I used subcontractors (foundation, rough framing, etc) I did a lot of the work myself after work and on weekends...... so the project was long and drawn out. I found the Zipp to have a couple of advantages.

First, I was able to put the addition in the dry quickly (my framer put up the sheathing and I taped the seams almost immediately). I know you can do the same with felt, but with the Zipp I didn't have to worry about felt blowing off, which I had experienced in the past, nor degrading in the sun until I got to the roofing stage. My Zipp roof was exposed to multiple rains and sun for several months with no leaks, edge swell, or swell around nails. Huber is known to be a high quality OSB manufacturer (I work at the USDA Forest Products Lab and our sheathing experts confirmed this). From what I understand, this OSB has a higher resin content and better edge treatment (read less edge swell) than cheaper OSB.

Second, Zipp wall sheathing eliminated the need for Tyvek as the OSB (and tape) serves as a wind barrier (at least this is the case in the codes in Wisconsin....not sure this is the case everywhere). This was a savings in both material and labor.

Now that the Zipp is covered with roofing and siding its performance is really not any different than regular OSB. So, its advantage is really in that interim period between installing the sheathing and weatherproofing the roof. If you can get that done in short order (between rain storms), then perhaps the Zipp system is an expensive luxury. However, if you have a more protracted project like mine, it really offers some piece of mind to have that temporary protection.

My $0.02

Bob

PS - If you decide to go with this system, I have the necessary tape reel and accessories I'd be willing to part with at a VERY discounted price.

368762

[Bill Dufour]

I am in the central valley of California. several years ago OSB was widely used for wall and roof sheathing. I do not see it used much anymore. This may be because all the OSB I see is shipped from Canada so Plywood may be no more expensive with shipping?
For six months of the year drying in a house is not an issue in most of California so the Zip product seems expensive for a useless advantage. Maybe in winter, when it rains, it might make sense here.
Bill