Dust collection

[Robert Willing]

http://www.tmart.com/SN50-High-Efficiency-Cyclone-Powder-Dust-Collector-Filter-for-Vacuums-IA1-White_p355293.html?promotion=2017-Fall-Sale I ordered one of these for the price of 15.00 and a long wait, I will review when it come in. I guess regular price is 26.00 still not bad if it works.

[Ben Rivel]

Ha! Wow that's wild. Well if they copied the design accurately from Oneida I cant see why it wouldnt work just as well. I figured those things didnt cost much to make but man thats REALLY cheap!

[Bill Adamsen]

Well if they copied the design accurately from Oneida I cant see why it wouldnt work just as well.

The Oneida patent was granted about seven years ago. If Oneida has maintained their patent (paid the annual fees) one would think that patent still valid. And as the prior commented noted, this would appear to be a direct copy which I find offensive.

Patent History
Patent number: D668409
Type: Grant
Filed: Apr 7, 2011
Date of Patent: Oct 2, 2012
Assignee: (Syracuse, NY)
Inventor: Robert M. Witter (https://patents.justia.com/inventor/robert-m-witter) (Syracuse, NY)
Primary Examiner: Ruth McInroy (https://patents.justia.com/examiner/ruth-mcinroy)
Attorney, Agent or Firm: Fitch, Even, Tabin & Flannery, LLP (https://patents.justia.com/agent/fitch-even-tabin-flannery-llp)
Application Number: 29/389,213


Classifications


https://www.oneida-air.com/PDF/DustDeputyPatent7282074C1.pdf

https://www.oneida-air.com/pdf/diy%20deluxe%20ultimate%20manual%202012.pdf

[Art Mann]

This advertisement serves to show just how grossly overpriced the Oneida piece is, whether it works as well or not. Molded plastic is cheap, no matter where it is made.

[Bill Adamsen]

This advertisement serves to show just how grossly overpriced the Oneida piece is, whether it works as well or not. Molded plastic is cheap, no matter where it is made.

Not knowing the size of the market I can't answer that. But, even assuming it is a huge market, there may be many costs that come into play when manufacturing in the US (as opposed to other countries) that may impact the cost structure.

[Art Mann]

At one time, part of my job was to produce electronic product quotes as a manufacturing engineer for the automotive industry. All our vendors were domestic at the time. I have had lots of chances to see how much injection molded plastic costs. If Oneida can't sell enough of those things to achieve a reasonable economy of scale, I can't imagine why they bother to make them. These comments are coming from a person who owns a dust deputy and a super dust deputy. I bought them because they were worth it to me even at the outrageous prices. At the time I bought them, all other options were unacceptably inferior. Sooner or later, competition will do for them what Toyota did for General Motors.

[Brian Henderson]

Besides, if Oneida, and I own their products too, overpriced though they may be, can't make and sell enough to reduce the price, how can this Chinese company? Clearly they are still making a profit at $16 and their market can't be any larger than Oneida's is, probably even smaller because of name recognition. Assuming similar quality, it makes no sense to buy the name brand when cheaper versions that work just as well are available.

[Edwin Santos]

At one time, part of my job was to produce electronic product quotes as a manufacturing engineer for the automotive industry. All our vendors were domestic at the time. I have had lots of chances to see how much injection molded plastic costs. If Oneida can't sell enough of those things to achieve a reasonable economy of scale, I can't imagine why they bother to make them. These comments are coming from a person who owns a dust deputy and a super dust deputy. I bought them because they were worth it to me even at the outrageous prices. At the time I bought them, all other options were unacceptably inferior. Sooner or later, competition will do for them what Toyota did for General Motors.

I have no doubts about your expertise on the cost of injection molded plastic products. My question is whether you feel it is legitimate for the manufacturer to factor in costs like research and development, patent acquisition, their own administration and overhead, product liability insurance and other indirect costs like these when they establish the price?

[Ole Anderson]

At the end of the day, it is all about return on investment and overall company profit at the end of the year. If you let someone else do all the investment, of course you can sell it cheaper. The Chinese business model seems to have no qualms stealing another's idea and running with it. And we play into it.

[Rod Sheridan]

Well, I guess if you're OK with intellectual property theft and violation of patents, not to mention loss of revenue for local companies and their employees, then this is the object to purchase.

Is saving a few bucks worth that?

regards, Rod.

[Rick Potter]

If I remember correctly, I think Clearvue claimed that Oneida 'borrowed' their idea for the Clearview Mini, came up with the Dust Deputy and patented it. I believe there was a lawsuit on that.

[Robert Willing]

The same unit is now on amazon.com https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071GHFN15/ref=sxbs_sxwds-stvp_3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3171424582&pd_rd_wg=2GNWm&pf_rd_r=898SK4VX19MGW9CGTNCP&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-bottom-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_i=B071GHFN15&pd_rd_w=isRkT&pf_rd_i=dust+collection+system&pd_rd_r=ZFEPTZZR9JKCCXVW4MT1&ie=UTF8&qid=1506548775&sr=3 and good reviews also. I was looking for and waiting for a sale at Menards but ran across this one doing a google search.

[Robert Willing]

After reading all these reply it makes me wonder how the carbide tool companies cope with the aftermarket copies. In fact, multiple companies offer carbide replacements chips and they are USA based. In fact, one company offers a replacement table for your convenience. I am sure the cyclone concept has been around for some time and from multiple suppliers, both large and small unites.

I know one wood working site individuals were offering tools and in fact, offered contests to purchase same. I don’t think Easy Tool was very happy. Than other sites started offering knock offs. I would think that free market reigns.

[Art Mann]

You are fighting a straw man and putting words in my mouth. The Dust Deputy is not "intellectual property". The concept of a cyclonic dust collector has been around since decades before Oneida existed. I remember one in the back of a cabinet factory in my home town in 1967 or 68 and I am sure they had been around long before then. If there is anything I learned from the years I was involved in automotive electronics design, it is that most patents don't hold up when challenged. Our front office used to have dozens of brass plaques hung on the wall for clever circuits to solve some particular problem. We quit doing this altogether when it was clear that they were worthless. Patents have to be unique to hold up. Little plastic cyclones are not that in my opinion. What you are claiming is similar to someone trying to patent a small wheelbarrow that only holds 1 cubic foot and is designed for small people.

As for loss of revenue from foreign competition, I am intimately familiar with that. I worked for a "big 3" automobile company for 30 years. If it were not for foreign competition, the choice of automobiles would be the same today as it was in 1968 - terrible quality, overpriced junk made by companies and laborers who assumed the public would have to buy whatever they put out. The advances in automotive quality and technology were driven mostly by foreign competition. I know because I was there. If you really want to discuss theft of intellectual property, you should investigate where US auto makers got their high volume manufacturing technology.


Well, I guess if you're OK with intellectual property theft and violation of patents, not to mention loss of revenue for local companies and their employees, then this is the object to purchase.

Is saving a few bucks worth that?

regards, Rod.

[Robert Willing]

Well received my Oneida take off vortex dust collector. It is amazing for its size. Only 12” overall. Bought a HD 5gal bucket for the dust bucket, and what a mistake the walls are so thin they collapsed after picking up my lathe shavings. I switched buckets to one from a previous material purchase with heavier side walls. This worked. There were no shavings in the shop vac’s container. Also bought the HD Rigid combo hose 2 ½ “/1 7/8”.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1-7-8-in-x-10-ft-Pro-Grade-Vacuum-Hose-Kit-for-RIDGID-Wet-Dry-Vacs-VT2570/100375877
This gave me more hose than I already had, what a nice bonus, now I can reach other places in my shop that I could not reach before.

This combination hose fit the 50mm inlet perfect. The vacuum inlet fit with the addition of 1/16” gasket material wrapped around the hose fitting from HD. I reinforced the pale lid with ¼” ply. I am amazed at the vacuum this unit delivers.

[Josh Kocher]

If I was looking to save a few bucks on a Dust Deputy, I'd buy a used one. They are available on kijiji/craigslist all the time...

A piece of plastic works just as well used as new...

[Robert Willing]

maybe where you live but not in northern wisconsin or the up of michigan.

[Charles Lent]

I collapsed the first bucket under my Dust Deputy too. Then I found that the "Firehouse Subs" stores were selling used 5 gallon pickle buckets for $2 each (which is then donated to the local fire company). These buckets are much stronger than those available from the big box stores, and my pickle bucket didn't collapse when using my Shop Vac as a vacuum source. However, when I switched to using a re-purposed whole house central vacuum unit for my shop vacuum source, my Firehouse Subs bucket collapsed the first time that the inlet hose got accidentally restricted.

To solve this problem I realized that the Firehouse Subs pickle buckets have reinforcing ribs around the top third of each bucket, so I stacked three buckets together, giving me reinforcing ribs and triple wall thickness for the full height of the top bucket. I put the Dust Deputy on the lid of the top bucket of the three. This was the perfect solution to solve the collapsing problem, except the pickle buckets gave my shop a distinct smell of dill pickles for about the first month of use. I've tried several methods of getting rid of the pickle smell from these buckets and it seems that only leaving them open and in direct Sunlight for about a month, or a month or so in use as the receiving bucket under a Dust Deputy are the only methods that have really worked. The smell does eventually go away, but these are the only methods that worked for me.

I have since replaced my Firehouse pickle buckets with a 20 gal steel barrel and a shop made lid, made from 2 layers of 3/4 cabinet birch plywood. The bottom layer just fits the inside diameter of the barrel and the top layer is slightly larger than the barrel, with caulking between the layers and about a dozen wood screws to hold them tightly together. I applied closed cell foam Weatherstrip to the underside of the edge of the top layer to act as the seal between the top edge of the barrel top lip and the lid. The lid and attached Dust Deputy just sit on the top of the barrel with no clamps or other mechanical fasteners. The vacuum pulls the joint to the barrel tight when the vacuum system is in use. I used a smoke spray like used to test smoke detectors, sprayed near this seal with the vacuum running to see if I had any leaks, and I didn't find any.

I use my vacuum system to collect the sawdust from all of my lower producing shop sawdust creating tools, vacuuming the shop floor, and cleaning my cars and trucks. My heavy sawdust producers like my Unisaw, jointer, and planer are not connected to this system. It is primarily used for my scroll saws, drill presses, belt sanders, pad sanders, routers, etc. of which only one tool is connected at a time. My shop is small, so I don't have the room for a bigger dust collector system. In the several years of use of this system I have dumped the 5 gal bucket 4 times and the grease barrel once. So far, each time that I have dumped the Dust Deputy receiver bucket I have looked in the central vacuum container and there has been nothing in it, except for a trace of micro fine dust on the container walls that I can only see by rubbing it with my finger. The fabric filter never collects anything and I am considering just removing it. The Dust Deputy seems to be removing 99.9% or more of it. The exhaust from my central vacuum unit is piped to the outdoors, so nothing collected ever gets back inside my shop or my lungs. The vacuum unit is in the attic of my shop with pipes inside the walls and ceiling. I have the original central vacuum inlet ports in the attic, shop walls, and one outside next to the passage door into the shop, so I can take the hose outside and vacuum my cars and trucks. Inside, the hose gets routed across the ceiling on large hooks to the tool being used and it's easy to just hold a loop of hose up to hook it in place or to remove it from the hooks. The only time that hose is ever on the floor is when I'm vacuuming the floor.

Charley

[Robert Engel]

Robert,

I can't imagine a shop vac collapsing a 5 gal bucket. Those must be cheap buckets.

[Lane Hardy]

I have that exact Cyclone, and it works very well, I used it with a small shop vac brand vac,
The ports are metric and an odd size at that. I made adapters from PVC pipe. I mounted the unit
on a piece of three-quarter inch birch plywood with a grove cut in the ply with my router that would fit a 5 gallon bucket.

The key to make this or any Cyclone is a good seal on the bucket, any leaks will kill the efficiency.
I no longer us it since I have D.C. System with a Supper Dust Deputy and a Wynn filter.

for the $16.oo dollars you can't beat it for a small shop vac, I built a home brew Cyclone from 10 inch HVAC duct that was in my attic after we installed a new HVAC system. It was crude looking but worked very well, and the filter in the shop vac
is clean I still use this rig to clean the shop floor and cuttings from my drill press.
I think the success of this Cyclone is that is very tall. I built it as an experiment and it worked so well I used it on my
table saw for several years and my jointer and a planer.



The $16.00 Cyclone was gift from points earned from other purchases, so it was free for me.
It is small only 12 inches tall. Does it work yes! Does it work as well as a Dust Deputy I am not sure I only have a SDD
and my home brew Cyclone. I believe any Cyclone like this is better than any Thein Baffle at removing the fine saw dust. ( sorry Phil)

[Joe Jensen]

This advertisement serves to show just how grossly overpriced the Oneida piece is, whether it works as well or not. Molded plastic is cheap, no matter where it is made.

Items are worth what people will pay for them. It's called value based pricing. Violating patents is cheating in my not so humble opinion. Buy the cheap crap from China all you want, but don't then dare whine about how US companies move all the jobs and manufacturing offshore. Way too many Americans only want to pay the lowest price and then the next moment complain about how the greedy companies move manufacturing to cheaper places.