Iwasaki carving files/floats and "chip breaking"

[Patrick Chase]

I've been curious for a while about the great performance of the Iwasaki carving float/files. I've see claims in a couple places that the tooth profile includes a "built in chip-breaker" and finally got curious enough to see for myself. I think this is a case where a picture is worth more than any number of words, so without further ado here's the toothing of an X-fine (red handled) Iwasaki:

368409
The "breaking faces" are set back about 0.15 mm (~6 mils) from the edges, and are about 0.1 mm high (~4 mils). That's lower-profile than most people around here seem to use, but consistent with the famous Kato/Kawai video, which showed the shaving breaking quite low on the cap iron face.

These are REALLY well-formed teeth for a file/rasp/float. I also took some shots of a medium Iwasaki. They also have the "ledged" profile but on a larger scale and not quite as crisply formed.

EDIT: The image above was shot at 5:1 magnification with a full-frame (36 mm x 24 mm sensor) camera, meaning that the entire frame is 7.2 mm across. You can see 6 teeth in the image, which is consistent with the stated pitch of 1.2 mm/tooth.

[Brian Holcombe]

I just ordered a few of these myself in extra fine and 'extreme' fine.

[Patrick Chase]

I just ordered a few of these myself in extra fine and 'extreme' fine.

Sorry I should have been more careful in my post. The one I imaged in this thread is IW-8CPFEF, which Woodcraft (https://www.woodcraft.com/products/iwasaki-file-110mm-flat-extreme-fine-cut) and The Best Things (http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/iwasaki_floats.htm) both sell as "extreme fine".

Fine-tools sells the exact same part as "extra fine", and the "extra-fine" red-tanged files from The Best Things etc have the same toothing as far as I can tell.

[Brian Holcombe]

I assumed as much, it seemed like a weird designation. In any case, very much looking forward to using them.

[george wilson]

They work great. They are like the "Super Shear" files Nicholson used to make. I'm lucky to have a few of those in much larger sizes.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have several - love 'em.

[Patrick Chase]

I agree with George and Frederick that these are great tools, in case that wasn't clear from my first post.

For what it's worth, here's a "medium" photographed under the same conditions:
368434
The "breaking face" is about 0.3 mm / 12 mils from the edge. I suspect that in this case it may be helping with clogging but not so much with cutting mechanics.

I apparently did a somewhat worse job of cleaning the medium tool, though it's also just not as finely finished as its X-fine counterpart.

[Ted Phillips]

I've used Iwasaki's for about five years. I originally got them when I was carving and making scales for knives. They work extremely well, but tend to clog pretty severely with resinous wood. While that's true of a lot of rasps, the Iwasakis are a real pain to clean. I use a couple of different brushes then end up picking them with dental tools to get the residual out. If you leave any wood in the teeth, it starts rusting in a very short amount of time - and any amount of rust, really kills the performance of these tools.

I tend to reach for my hand-stitched rasps now and use the Iwasakis less and less. The true rasps tend to take a much more agressive, yet more controllable cut. YMMV.

[Patrick Chase]

I've used Iwasaki's for about five years. I originally got them when I was carving and making scales for knives. They work extremely well, but tend to clog pretty severely with resinous wood. While that's true of a lot of rasps, the Iwasakis are a real pain to clean. I use a couple of different brushes then end up picking them with dental tools to get the residual out. If you leave any wood in the teeth, it starts rusting in a very short amount of time - and any amount of rust, really kills the performance of these tools.

I tend to reach for my hand-stitched rasps now and use the Iwasakis less and less. The true rasps tend to take a much more agressive, yet more controllable cut. YMMV.

I have a decent collection of Liogiers as well as some Corradis for "rough work", and I agree that the Iwasakis don't replace good quality rasps. In fact I think that they're a different type of tool altogether. In terms of cutting mechanics the Iwasakis are basically floats, and I think that they excel where floats do in general - to fairly precisely shear off layers of material leaving a level surface, particularly in confined spaces.

FWIW I find the x-fine Iwasakis to be extremely controllable, but they require a somewhat different "touch" than does a rasp. The Iwasakis (and floats in general) have a tendency to "dig in" with the leading tooth if you're not careful, and you have to manage initial pressure and angle of attack if you want to take light cuts. I realize this description probably makes zero sense, but that's the best way I can think of to explain it.

I agree that the complex tooth profile of the Iwasakis can trap gunk. As with just about everything in tool design, it's a tradeoff with no single right answer. I'm personally willing to accept that in exchange for the terrific cutting performance in most other circumstances.

Really the point of my posts was to illustrate what I think is fairly nifty toothing. I'm not arguing they're the right tool for everybody and every situation.

BTW the difference between hand- and machine-cut rasps is not what it once was. I still prefer my Liogiers over my Corradis, but the Corradis are better than any other machine-cut rasp I've ever tried (Nicholson, Narex, Bellota) and some hand-cut ones (Ajax, StewMac "Dragon"). I hear that the Vallorbe-Glardon machine-cut rasps are similarly good, but they're more expensive than the Liogiers so I haven't bothered with them.

[Stewie Simpson]

I purchased 4 Iwasaki Floats for shaping backsaw handles about 4 years ago, and after using them twice I cast them aside as a complete waste of money. The handles were way too short, their limited length of cut was frustrating, and their tooth profiles kept clogging up with wood fibres. Its likely their range of rasps may be a lot better, but I cant fault the range of Sapphire Coated Logier Rasps I use now.

[Patrick Chase]

I purchased 4 Iwasaki Floats for shaping backsaw handles about 4 years ago, and after using them twice I cast them aside as a complete waste of money. The handles were way too short, their limited length of cut was frustrating, and their tooth profiles kept clogging up with wood fibres. Its likely their range of rasps may be a lot better, but I cant fault the range of Sapphire Coated Logier Rasps I use now.

Yeah, I would expect a traditional rasp to be a better fit for that sort of use. I ended up getting some Liogier Sapphires (IIRC you were one of the people who had good things to say about them at the time) and they're exquisite as you say.

[Derek Cohen]

I have a couple of Iwasaki floats. I posted some months back that I found them difficult to use at first. They require a lighter touch than more traditional rasps. I have since adjusted to them and automatically take up the appropriate angle. They are slower to cut than my Liogier rasps, but reward with a finer finish.

If you wish to use these floats, persevere until you get the feel.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

You do have to learn how to use the Japanese files. I like them because they leave a smoother finish than a rasp. It's a personal thing,I admit,but the idea and rough surface left by GRATING wood away with a rasp has never been a process I like. I'd rather shear it off with a cutting edge.

[Stewie Simpson]

With the #14 and #15 hand stitched Modellers Rasps by Logier I don't find that an issue. Flat and curved profiles. http://www.liogier-france.fr/woodworking?lang=en

[Patrick Chase]

With the #14 and #15 hand stitched Modellers Rasps by Logier I don't find that an issue. Flat and curved profiles. http://www.liogier-france.fr/woodworking?lang=en

I have the Liogier #14 modellers' rasp, and it's a terrific tool, but it leaves a different finish than does a float.

Although both finishes are basically smooth, the Iwasaki (like any sharp float) leaves a finish that is "glassier" with less tearing of the wood. I'll take close-up shots of the wood after both if I have some spare cycles. That difference may not matter to you, depending on the subsequent finishing steps you apply to your handles.

[Patrick Chase]

The handles were way too short, their limited length of cut was frustrating

You know that Iwasaki sells 150, 200, and 250 mm tanged versions (http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/iwasaki_floats.htm) of those floats, right?

The biggest problem with the Iwasakis from my perspective is that they don't taper to a point or to sharp sides like good rasps do, to say nothing of rifflers. That's a shared limitation of all floats, though. Different tools for different jobs, etc.

[Stewie Simpson]

Cabinetmaker Floats

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/Cabinetmaker%20Floats/SDC10673.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/Cabinetmaker%20Floats/SDC10673.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/Cabinetmaker%20Floats/SDC10679.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/Cabinetmaker%20Floats/SDC10679.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/Cabinetmaker%20Floats/SDC10672.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/Cabinetmaker%20Floats/SDC10672.jpg.html)

[Patrick Chase]

Wow, that's a drool-worthy collection. Nice!