Tool rest for reaching 10+ inches away from the post?

[Chris Gunsolley]

For those of you who turn pieces large enough that your tool is at times 10 or more inches away from the post of your tool rest, what is the best tool rest you have found for this?

What do turners use for this anyways?

The deepest-reaching tool rest I have is the Robust 14-inch J-bar tool rest, but I only feel comfortable reaching about 10 inches deep into a turning while using it. So, I'm looking for a good tool rest with even greater reaching capacity.

Thank you.

[Roger Chandler]

Try this on for size. Tom Zepada makes a specialized offset tool rest for reaching into the bottom of bowls.............here is a youtube video where he demonstrates it. You can order if you are interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEOJ5ayF-0

[Olaf Vogel]

For those of you who turn pieces large enough that your tool is at times 10 or more inches away from the post of your tool rest, what is the best tool rest you have found for this?

Thank you.

Here's my custom solution:

368303368304
28" wide. Turn it into the bowl and you get lots of reach. Still planning on making a curved version, but my blacksmith friend is busy.
Drilling all the holes was a PITA. :)

[Thomas Canfield]

I had a large bowl once that caused a problem with my 5/8" bowl gouge off a straight tool rest bar down in the lower corner. My initial solution was to buy a 3/4" Thompson gouge and 24" handle. That did better, but then I had a "J" tool rest bar made. The curved tool rest was definitely less expensive, but both are used at times.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Not one rest will do all, I made a couple of large J rests, a left and a right J that cover some of the problems of reaching in farther, but they have their own problems where the tool or handle will run into the rest itself.

I have fought of welding a heavier T bar onto a post to get deeper and have enough strength to not start vibrating when reaching in all the way, haven’t needed one real bad and so I will make it when I need it :)

368321


Added, the J rests I made are from solid 1” steel rod and vibration has never been a problem with these.

[Dale Miner]

Just an opinion;

J-bar rests should have a bit of a stop welded to the end to prevent the tool (gouge or scraper) from slipping of the end when working down in the bottom.

It the tool does slip off the end of the J, the tool goes past center, gets picked up by the upwards motion of the piece on the opposite side of center, and then gets slammed down onto the rest after being carried over the top. Any body parts between the tool and tool rest will carry scars after the memorable event.

Another opinion; the J-bar should be made of stock at least as large as the tool rest post to minimize vibration. Mine is made of 1" hydraulic cylinder rod (1045 heat treated) that allows for about 9" or 10" and starts to vibrate on medium or heavier cuts when working near the end. If doing over, 1-1/4" would be used with a gusset between the post and the rest.

A captured system is probably safer for bowls once they are hollowed more than 7" or 8" deep.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Just an opinion;

J-bar rests should have a bit of a stop welded to the end to prevent the tool (gouge or scraper) from slipping of the end when working down in the bottom.

It the tool does slip off the end of the J, the tool goes past center, gets picked up by the upwards motion of the piece on the opposite side of center, and then gets slammed down onto the rest after being carried over the top. Any body parts between the tool and tool rest will carry scars after the memorable event.

Another opinion; the J-bar should be made of stock at least as large as the tool rest post to minimize vibration. Mine is made of 1" hydraulic cylinder rod (1045 heat treated) that allows for about 9" or 10" and starts to vibrate on medium or heavier cuts when working near the end. If doing over, 1-1/4" would be used with a gusset between the post and the rest.

A captured system is probably safer for bowls once they are hollowed more than 7" or 8" deep.

I do agree with the thought that a captured system would be the better way to go Dale, especially if the piece is a more narrow or vase like piece, not many bowls are 10 inch deep I think :D

[Dale Miner]

I do agree with the thought that a captured system would be the better way to go Dale, especially if the piece is a more narrow or vase like piece, not many bowls are 10 inch deep I think :D


Leo,

I can't recall ever turning a bowl much over about 8 inches deep. I do know as they get much past about 5" or 6" the difficulty factor goes up exponentially.

Also, as they get deeper, a bottom grind gouge becomes a must.

[Chris Gunsolley]

Try this on for size. Tom Zepada makes a specialized offset tool rest for reaching into the bottom of bowls.............here is a youtube video where he demonstrates it. You can order if you are interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEOJ5ayF-0

Great design! Thanks for mentioning this, Roger. In response to your reply, I watched the video and contacted Tom regarding these rests. He gave me the dimensions and pricing of his rests. Here they are for those of you who are interested:

The 6" rest with 6" extension has an overall reach of 7 5/8" ($95)
The 8" rest with 8" extension has an overall reach of 8 1/4" ($97)
The 6" rest with 8 1/2" extension has an overall reach of 10" ($100)
The 8" rest with 8 1/2" extension has an overall reach of 11 1/4" ($102)

I like this design, because the flat part on the end, where you actually rest your tool when reaching deep, is much larger than what you find at the end of commercially available j-bars, and it is also more in line with the post which both offers added stability and allows this portion to be longer. So, I believe it would be a major advantage over a large j-bar and probably the best rest for reaching deep that I've come across this far and is available for purchase. It appears you'd be much more stable and have a larger area to work at the tip of the rest. I will probably order at least the large one that has the 11 1/4" reach. The smallest one will likely be next after that.

[Chris Gunsolley]

Here's my custom solution:

368303368304
28" wide. Turn it into the bowl and you get lots of reach. Still planning on making a curved version, but my blacksmith friend is busy.
Drilling all the holes was a PITA. :)

Wow, Olaf! Doesn't look like that would budge! What are the dimensions of the tubing, and the type of steel (if you have it)?

Also, what do you use the holes for?

I think I'd better go ahead and make a blacksmith friend of my own...

[Chris Gunsolley]

I had a large bowl once that caused a problem with my 5/8" bowl gouge off a straight tool rest bar down in the lower corner. My initial solution was to buy a 3/4" Thompson gouge and 24" handle. That did better, but then I had a "J" tool rest bar made. The curved tool rest was definitely less expensive, but both are used at times.

I've got that 3/4" Thompson gouge as well, with the long metal handle. What a fine tool! And yes, I believe the large j-bar tool rests are currently the best option on the market for reaching deep. My favorite so far is the 14" robust j-bar. Tom Zepada's tool rest design looks like an improvement over a j-bar (see Roger's post above if you haven't). The interior curved bars are good as well, but when the inside of your bowls don't conform exactly to their contour, too large of a gap is created between the rest and the inside of the bowl. The j-bar at least allows you to target specific areas at the bottom and the wall as closely as you'd like, but they are limited because the part that you use when you reach deep--the area that is relatively flat on the end--is really short.

[Chris Gunsolley]

Just an opinion;

J-bar rests should have a bit of a stop welded to the end to prevent the tool (gouge or scraper) from slipping of the end when working down in the bottom.

It the tool does slip off the end of the J, the tool goes past center, gets picked up by the upwards motion of the piece on the opposite side of center, and then gets slammed down onto the rest after being carried over the top. Any body parts between the tool and tool rest will carry scars after the memorable event.

Another opinion; the J-bar should be made of stock at least as large as the tool rest post to minimize vibration. Mine is made of 1" hydraulic cylinder rod (1045 heat treated) that allows for about 9" or 10" and starts to vibrate on medium or heavier cuts when working near the end. If doing over, 1-1/4" would be used with a gusset between the post and the rest.

A captured system is probably safer for bowls once they are hollowed more than 7" or 8" deep.

Dale,

Great ideas for the j-bar design! If you're not going to make them and sell them yourself, I really wish you would forward this idea to the major manufacturers. (Robust would be nice. Oneway might be willing to make them and makes very fine, heavy duty rests when they do.)

I think your point on incorporating the stop at the end of the j-bar is fantastic. At least it would tame your nerves when working near the tip, and this can go a long ways in keeping yourself calm and controlled through the duration of an entire turning session.

Also, interesting detailed analysis of what could happen if the tool were to slip off the end. I've had it slip off the end before, but I wasn't forceful at that moment, which fortunately kept things under control. My experience was that I simply saw that once your tool accidentally kisses the other side of the bowl, it simply doesn't cut. Thankfully, I've dodged the disaster you've mentioned, but again, I was being very light on it at the moment and perhaps I got lucky. This doesn't happen any more, because these experiences taught me to no longer go all the way to the tip of the j-bar. So, that shortens the length of that flat portion I can use when it's already short. Great ideas for adding stability as well. Once we're designing rests specifically for reaching deep, the standards for the stock used have to change.

By "captured system," you simply mean one with the stop at the end so that your tool is 'captured', correct?

[Chris Gunsolley]

Not one rest will do all, I made a couple of large J rests, a left and a right J that cover some of the problems of reaching in farther, but they have their own problems where the tool or handle will run into the rest itself.

I have fought of welding a heavier T bar onto a post to get deeper and have enough strength to not start vibrating when reaching in all the way, haven’t needed one real bad and so I will make it when I need it :)

368321


Added, the J rests I made are from solid 1” steel rod and vibration has never been a problem with these.

I like your J-bar design, because it has a relatively long 'flat' portion on the end. Also, the design that you mention incorporating the t-bar at the end sounds like Tom Zepada's design that Roger mentioned above. What do you think of that tool rest design?

Also, really cool bowl with those voids! What type of wood is that? And I'm assuming it's a burl?

[Chris Gunsolley]

Leo,
Also, as they get deeper, a bottom grind gouge becomes a must.

Large 1 1/2" scrapers work fantastic, either round or dome-ended depending on the radius of the bowl, cutting with the grain, which means from the center of the bottom of the bowl toward the outside when you're doing the bottom half of the inside of the bowl, for example. (That goes for any size of bowl.) This is what I use, and the main problem I've had has had nothing to do with the tool and everything to do with the tool rest slipping either once my tool is hanging a long ways off the rest or when I'm resting the tool toward the end of the rest. (That's why I replaced my stock banjo with the Oneway.)

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I like your J-bar design, because it has a relatively long 'flat' portion on the end. Also, the design that you mention incorporating the t-bar at the end sounds like Tom Zepada's design that Roger mentioned above. What do you think of that tool rest design?

Also, really cool bowl with those voids! What type of wood is that? And I'm assuming it's a burl?

I had to go and look at that toolrest, I think my left J rest does very much what his does, and with the curve is easier to use in a smaller bottom, in a wider one I’d have to move the rest over to do a wider piece, with the Zapeda you won’t be able to get close to the bottom of a rounded bottom bowl, I suppose there is no perfect rest that covers all.

The T bar I’m thinking about would have a U that can rotate in the end, a gouge would fit in there, captured more or less, so it would not fall of the rest, just an idea that might never see the light of day.

The bowl is around 30 inches, a Manitoba Maple (Acer negundo) root burl, it was quite a job getting that to the stage (grown in gravel and sand) seen in that picture, before that it looked like this, and the semi finished shape in the last picture.

368428 368430 368432

[William Bachtel]

Robust will also make you one special order, ask for offset tool rest, I turn big bowls with mine up to 24 inches in diameter. He will quote a price, it was priced right to. I am very happy with mine.

[Chris Gunsolley]

Robust will also make you one special order, ask for offset tool rest, I turn big bowls with mine up to 24 inches in diameter. He will quote a price, it was priced right to. I am very happy with mine.

Great to know, William! I like Robust's tool rests and have their 12" straight, 15" straight, outside curve, inside curve, 14" j-bar and 9" j-bar.

What are the dimensions of the special order offset tool rest that you find most useful?

[Chris Gunsolley]

I had to go and look at that toolrest, I think my left J rest does very much what his does, and with the curve is easier to use in a smaller bottom, wider one I’d have to move the rest to cover a wider piece, with the Zapeda you won’t be able to get close to the bottom of a rounded bottom bowl, I suppose there is no perfect one that covers all.

The T bat I’m thinking about would have U that can rotate in the end, a gouge would sit in there captured more or less, so it would not fall of the rest, just allan that might never see the light of day.

The bowl is a Manitoba Maple (Acer negundo) root burl, it was quite a job getting that to the stage in that picture, before that it looked like this,

368428 368430 368432

With voids like that, how fast do you have to spin it to get decently smooth cutting action?

[Dale Miner]

Dale,

Great ideas for the j-bar design! If you're not going to make them and sell them yourself, I really wish you would forward this idea to the major manufacturers. (Robust would be nice. Oneway might be willing to make them and makes very fine, heavy duty rests when they do.)


I think your point on incorporating the stop at the end of the j-bar is fantastic. At least it would tame your nerves when working near the tip, and this can go a long ways in keeping yourself calm and controlled through the duration of an entire turning session.

Also, interesting detailed analysis of what could happen if the tool were to slip off the end. I've had it slip off the end before, but I wasn't forceful at that moment, which fortunately kept things under control. My experience was that I simply saw that once your tool accidentally kisses the other side of the bowl, it simply doesn't cut. Thankfully, I've dodged the disaster you've mentioned, but again, I was being very light on it at the moment and perhaps I got lucky. This doesn't happen any more, because these experiences taught me to no longer go all the way to the tip of the j-bar. So, that shortens the length of that flat portion I can use when it's already short. Great ideas for adding stability as well. Once we're designing rests specifically for reaching deep, the standards for the stock used have to change.

By "captured system," you simply mean one with the stop at the end so that your tool is 'captured', correct?


Chris,

The design of the J-bar I made is a Chris Ramsey inspired design. Chris is the person that pointed out the need for the stop at the end.

By 'Captured System' I am referring something along the lines of a Jameson, Sinner, or Elbow type system. Something that prevents the handle end of the tool from being lifted by the downward force of the cutting action.

I have hollowed end grain vessels up to 20" deep with hand held tooling using a hook tool. But, the overall length of the tool was nearly six feet and the bar was 1-3/8" diameter. Even with that much length there was a lot of abuse delivered to my shoulder. Been there, done that, will use a Steve Sinner type system next time.

Back to the subject of deep bowls; A 10" deep bowl with average proportions would be about 20" to 30" in diameter. Those proportions would allow the use of long J-bar rests and long handled bottom grind gouges. But the chance of a mishap that deep into a bowl makes their use at least borderline unsafe. A stout captured system reduces the chance of a mishap and injury. The largest bowls I have ever turned were in the 18" to 20" diameter range about 6" deep.

[Olaf Vogel]

Wow, Olaf! Doesn't look like that would budge! What are the dimensions of the tubing, and the type of steel (if you have it)?

Also, what do you use the holes for?

I think I'd better go ahead and make a blacksmith friend of my own...


Its 2x2x28. Mild steel. The post is 1.5" with gussets for stability. Its pretty solid. And heavy, ~ 30 lbs.
The holes are for pins, similar to metal spinning. You can see one at the right

Once I'm far enough inside a bowl / hollow form, I don't want my hand in there. And at 8+" over the tool rest, your hand has very little ability to control the tip accurately.
So pegs go in the holes and I work off the peg, in increments. With a long handle (i.e 48" pipe), I get extremely precise control over the tip. The pegs are NOT for leverage.

My last couple of pieces were 32" platters with lots of voids. By hand, there's no way to keep the chisel tip steady.

[lynn cranmer]

Do you have his contact info? I would like to order a couple also. Thanks<lynn

[Chris Gunsolley]

Do you have his contact info? I would like to order a couple also. Thanks<lynn

Lynn, I'm glad to help!

zepeda.thomas@gmail.com

[Chris Gunsolley]

Chris,

The design of the J-bar I made is a Chris Ramsey inspired design. Chris is the person that pointed out the need for the stop at the end.

By 'Captured System' I am referring something along the lines of a Jameson, Sinner, or Elbow type system. Something that prevents the handle end of the tool from being lifted by the downward force of the cutting action.

I have hollowed end grain vessels up to 20" deep with hand held tooling using a hook tool. But, the overall length of the tool was nearly six feet and the bar was 1-3/8" diameter. Even with that much length there was a lot of abuse delivered to my shoulder. Been there, done that, will use a Steve Sinner type system next time.

Back to the subject of deep bowls; A 10" deep bowl with average proportions would be about 20" to 30" in diameter. Those proportions would allow the use of long J-bar rests and long handled bottom grind gouges. But the chance of a mishap that deep into a bowl makes their use at least borderline unsafe. A stout captured system reduces the chance of a mishap and injury. The largest bowls I have ever turned were in the 18" to 20" diameter range about 6" deep.

I wasn't even aware of captured systems, and this appears to be exactly what I need. Are they all $400+?

[Leo Van Der Loo]

With voids like that, how fast do you have to spin it to get decently smooth cutting action?

The problem with very large pieces of wood is that you can’t rotate it fast or it will fly apart, I don’t remember the exact speeds used, started with 33 RPM and maybe got up to 200 rpm as the fastest speed, which would be more than 50 MPH on the outside surface, too fast for anything as weak as this really, so maybe it was 150 RPM.

[William Bachtel]

It is a 15 inch overall tool rest, the post is set at 6 inch, leaving 9 inches to go into the bowl, not 7.5 inches. Has min vibration, and stays away from my banjo. I have an American Beauty. I ready love this tool rest, use it all the time. I have one on both lathes.

[Chris Gunsolley]

I just wanted to let you guys know that I took action on this. I replaced the stock banjo on my 3520b with a Oneway banjo, bought a Oneway 11-1/2" curved interior tool rest, and Tom Zepeda's 2 largest offset tool rests. I'll let you guys know what I think of Tom's tool rests.

[Chris Gunsolley]

Try this on for size. Tom Zepada makes a specialized offset tool rest for reaching into the bottom of bowls.............here is a youtube video where he demonstrates it. You can order if you are interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEOJ5ayF-0

Roger,

I just want to thank you for mentioning Tom's offset tool rests to me. I ordered the two that have the furthest reach. One has a 6-inch rest, the other has an 8-inch rest. My thought was that I want the furthest reaching one for sure, as it will stretch my horizons and offer possibilities that the others wouldn't. Still, there will probably be times when the 8-inch rest is too wide to fit into the space that I want it to, so I'd better get the long reaching one with the 6" rest as well. I figured the tool rests I already have work just fine for anything shallower than as far as those two extend.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger,

I just want to thank you for mentioning Tom's offset tool rests to me. I ordered the two that have the furthest reach. One has a 6-inch rest, the other has an 8-inch rest. My thought was that I want the furthest reaching one for sure, as it will stretch my horizons and offer possibilities that the others wouldn't. Still, there will probably be times when the 8-inch rest is too wide to fit into the space that I want it to, so I'd better get the long reaching one with the 6" rest as well. I figured the tool rests I already have work just fine for anything shallower than as far as those two extend.
You are most welcome, Chris. I think I am going to get Tom to make me a 6" version. I know Tom, and actually turned on his Serious SL2542 at the Virginia Symposium last year. he has also demo-ed at our club, and lives about an hour away from me.

[Chris Gunsolley]

You are most welcome, Chris. I think I am going to get Tom to make me a 6" version. I know Tom, and actually turned on his Serious SL2542 at the Virginia Symposium last year. he has also demo-ed at our club, and lives about an hour away from me.

Do you have the one with the 8" rest and 8 1/2" extension (that has an overall reach of 11 1/4")?

[Roger Chandler]

Do you have the one with the 8" rest and 8 1/2" extension (that has an overall reach of 11 1/4")?
No, but I think the 6" with the 8.5 extenson will do whatever I need.