The Vietnam War - PBS

[Edwin Santos]

Hi,
Has anyone else been catching The Vietnam War, Ken Burns' 10 part documentary on PBS?

It's an amazingly deep documentary with a lot of footage and interviews that most would never have seen before. Massive undertaking that took Burns 10 years to complete.

I was a child during the Vietnam war, and growing up outside the US at that. I can't even relate to what it must be like to be a veteran or someone who lost friends, family in that war. The documentary makes clear how deep the wounds are. It also presents quite a few interviews with Vietnamese people, which is very interesting.

If you're interested, you can stream it on PBS' website. I heard Netflix will eventually have it also.

ADDED: This post was not intended to be political in any way. Please think of it as an FYI on a good documentary for those many of us too young to have firsthand knowledge of the events. In my case, just a genuine interest in history. I thought Ken Burns' Civil War documentary was very good also, but obviously not personal for nearly as many people when it came out (I think). Sorry if I inadvertently stepped on anyone's toes.

[Bruce Page]

I'm recording it. I never made it there. I blew my knee out carrying an M60 up a steep hill 3 weeks before I was to leave for Vietnam. I lost several friends there.

[Ray Newman]

After having spent 20 month is Vietnam (7/65-3/67) with Echo battery, 12 Marines, I have no desire to watch the program....

[Shawn Pixley]

I just missed the draft. I lost a childhood friend in that war.

[Steve Mawson]

My wife and I have been watching. I got drafted in 1967 however I was sent to South Korea when the spy ship Pueblo was captured by North Korea. Because of that I missed serving in Vietnam although several high school class mates served there and some did not make it back.

[Chris Parks]

I think that most of those who were involved would not want to watch this or any film that involved war. I know it is historical etc but the reason the governments cooked up for Vietnam and the sheer lunacy of causing so many deaths still hurts. I can see this may get political etc so I won't say anymore than that just to say I was conscripted in Australia but did not go because the change of government here ended our involvement.

[Michael Weber]

Having been 4F in college from hearing loss I did not serve obviously. Still the insanity of the war and the times remain. It's Too soon. I'm avoiding it. I've no wish to relive the times nor recall the horror.

[George Bokros]

I was in Vietnam though not in combat. I was in support, I did the payroll that paid the troops. I did however see some real government waste. Example, the Army leased two airplanes at Cam Ranh Bay from the Navy. These were two WW II sub chaser fixed wing aircraft with over $1 million of surveillance gear in each plane. The terms of the lease required the Navy to WASH one plane each week, in the Philippine Islands. So the Army flew one plane each week to the Philippine Islands to get washed.

What a waste of your tax dollars.

[Pat Barry]

I wonder who PBS and Burns' say won that war?

[Edwin Santos]

I wonder who PBS and Burns' say won that war?

With the disclaimer that I'm not all the way through it, they seem to be making a case that nobody won that war. Everyone lost in some way or another.

A couple of other themes I'm hearing:
1. Blame doesn't lie in any one lap, there were lots and lots of contributing factors, many of which are not widely known
2. If there's one thing to be gained by dissecting a difficult period of history, it's to learn from the past and prevent it from ever happening again - which is exactly what was not done at the time

[Michael Weber]

after all the deaths, misery and hate created between two countries I find it IRONIC Vietnam is now a cruise destination for Americans. My BIL who served in Vietnam in a non combat position is strongly considering taking one and talking about what a beautiful and friendly country it is.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I have been watching it with great interest though at times it is very difficult. I served 13 months there in 1968-69 as a Marine 0331 (machinegunner) first in a rifle company B 1/7 1st MARDIV, and later in a Combined Action Team. Combined Action was a squad of Marines, a Navy Corpsman, and a platoon of Vietnamese militia called Popular Forces and we lived in a village training the PFs, protecting the village, and performing civic action. I used to speak limited Vietnamese so mine was a very different war. So far the series appears to be fairly balanced.

It is a very emotional experience for me. I lost a lot of friends I served with, many of whom I watched die. It is gut churning and at some point in the series I expect tears. To me it is important to see if Ken Burns got it right. I'd hate to see something that will be in the public domain for years be slanted either left or right.

[Kevin Perez]

With the disclaimer that I'm not all the way through it, they seem to be making a case that nobody won that war. Everyone lost in some way or another.

A couple of other themes I'm hearing:
1. Blame doesn't lie in any one lap, there were lots and lots of contributing factors, many of which are not widely known
2. If there's one thing to be gained by dissecting a difficult period of history, it's to learn from the past and prevent it from ever happening again - which is exactly what was not done at the time

I was a child when the war ended, so I have no memory of any of it. That said, I have been a student of the "why" of wars, battles, etc., and have found the show to be very interesting. I agree with Edwin's take on it.

As to Vietnam being a destination, I found it surprising that several of the soldiers who were interviewed remarked on the beauty of the place even given their horrific experiences. For those of us who weren't risking our lives there, the beauty is obvious; for those of us who were, I fully understand the revulsion.

[James Pallas]

I guess I can speak here. I was in Hue for the Tet offensive in 1968. I would encourage anyone who watches TV shows to be careful of how you take it. After all we all see things through our own eyes. I don't care what war it is they are all horrible. They all have some reason. If you see something on TV don't take it as fact unless you fact check it yourself. The congressional record from that era is a good place to look. Tough reading. The only facts about that war I know for sure is what took place within my own little part of it. The other parts I know are what legislation was passed in that era. And lastly my friends that I would never see again.
Jim

[Chuck Ellis]

I'm considered a Vietnam veteran, although I never served in country...I was in the navy in August of 1964 when it was declared a police action war.... I was stationed on Guam in the communications station from 1961 until 1963... read many dispatches that depicted the U.S. loses in a time when we were not "at war" and was there in an advisory capacity... supposedly the soldiers in that time frame weren't allowed to carry weapons.... in 1955 when the French pulled out, they advised the U.S. to not go in as there it was a no win situation.... There was tragedy on all sides.

Disclaimer: not intended to be a political statement... just informative.
I've not watched the program and at this time, no intentions to do so. My step-son who is a real history buff, has mentioned it a few times.

[Andrew Joiner]

I saw it last night. John Musgrave's experience is really moving. He served and fought proudly. Then had a transformation.

[Jason Roehl]

For those of you who served, thank you and welcome home.

For those of us who couldn't, didn't or wouldn't serve, I think it's incredibly important to study the causes and effects of war so that when war is upon us, necessary or not, we do not take lightly the sacrifices made. I'll have to look into this series.

[Nick Decker]

I was there, Army air traffic controller, during1969 and 1970, and have been watching the series. Probably the thing that sets this account apart from others most is the interviews with the North Vietnamese. On the other hand, I haven't heard them say much that I didn't already believe - that all they ever wanted was for foreign governments to get out of their country.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks to this thread I saw my first episode last night on PBS............Rod.

[Nick Decker]

Rod,

If you can, try to watch the whole series from the beginning. I think it should be required viewing for any politician that might ever have anything to do with sending people to war.

[Edwin Santos]

Rod,

If you can, try to watch the whole series from the beginning. I think it should be required viewing for any politician that might ever have anything to do with sending people to war.

Agreed. I read a review of the series in the LA Times, and they said "Unless you are very well informed, it will teach you things you did not know, and correct things you thought you knew (about the war)".

I also saw a comment that this series spends 18 hours driving home the critical importance of the lessons of history, while simultaneously demonstrating how blatantly the politicians of time ignored them. Really fascinating albeit demanding.

I am finding the interviews with the North Vietnamese military interesting but I was relieved that Burns is not glamorizing them because the atrocities they committed are presented quite vividly.

[Nick Decker]

"...while simultaneously demonstrating how blatantly the politicians of time ignored them."

The various presidents involved may or may not have thought about the lessons of history, but I think every one of them, with the possible exception of LBJ, was concerned first and foremost with how pulling out would have affected his re-election chances. In the case of LBJ, I think he dropped out because he knew he couldn't win another term.

While I was over there, I got to know a few of the South Vietnamese very well. They loved Ho Chi Minh as the father of their country, much like George Washington is viewed here. They didn't care one bit about communism or capitalism, only that Ho represented independence.

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod,

If you can, try to watch the whole series from the beginning. I think it should be required viewing for any politician that might ever have anything to do with sending people to war.

I will Nick, thanks...............Regards, Rod.

[Mel Fulks]

Nick, there was a newsman who said that Johnson hinted in an interview ,maybe a private dinner, that he did not intend to run again. He tried to get him to elaborate but with no success. I might have details wrong ,guy might have laid out a scenario of after all that he had gotten thru congress ,etc he might quit. Might have to google this myself

[Nick Decker]

I really don't know much about LBJ's reasons for not running, just speculation on my part.

One thing I did learn was about Nixon's meddling in the peace talks during the campaign, before he was elected. Sounds kind of typical for Tricky Dick, I guess.

[Bruce Page]

Folks, this has been an interesting and educational thread. Many of us were deeply affected by the Vietnam war.
Please leave politics and political viewpoints out of the discussion.

[Rob Damon]

I was going to purchase the complete DVD series since I knew I would not be able to catch all the episodes, because my FIL and his brothers had served a year there.

I saw an interview that Ken Burns gave about two weeks before this series started and he said his intent was to present all sides in a neutral way and then let the viewer make up their own mind.

I watched the first and part of the second and a few bits here and their and it felt to me like a overwhelming anti-war documentary. It also seems to bounce around a lot.

So I stopped watching.

If I had not seen his interview first proclaiming his "neutrality", I would have watched the entire thing most likely.

[Bill McNiel]

Folks, this has been an interesting and educational thread. Many of us were deeply affected by the Vietnam war.
Please leave politics and political viewpoints out of the discussion.

This should be a very interesting concept, discussing a very good documentary on the Vietnam "Police Action" without bringing up politics.

[Bill McNiel]

"...while simultaneously demonstrating how blatantly the politicians of time ignored them."

The various presidents involved may or may not have thought about the lessons of history, but I think every one of them, with the possible exception of LBJ, was concerned first and foremost with how pulling out would have affected his re-election chances. In the case of LBJ, I think he dropped out because he knew he couldn't win another term.

While I was over there, I got to know a few of the South Vietnamese very well. They loved Ho Chi Minh as the father of their country, much like George Washington is viewed here. They didn't care one bit about communism or capitalism, only that Ho represented independence.

Very well stated sir!

[Chris Parks]

I watched the first and part of the second and a few bits here and their and it felt to me like a overwhelming anti-war documentary.

If it shows how war is useless and futile at any level it is definitely worth watching, everyone should watch it. As for politics and the Vietnam war it was the ultimate political war and I think it is impossible to have an in depth discussion without politics being discussed. The best thing to come out of it all was the song by Country Joe he sang at Woodstock....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7Y0ekr-3So

[Robert Engel]

It appears PBS has taken it down. My wife was watching and got the to 7th episode.

They do this consistently I think its because they want DVD sales.

Eventually it will show up on Netflix or Amazon I will definitely watch it.

[Mike Henderson]

I served in Vietnam 1970-71. My analysis is that it was a hopeless war. The only way to win the war was to take the fight to North Vietnam. China had let it be known that if we invaded North Vietnam they would enter the war. The Korean War was not that long ago and the United States was not willing to get into another war with China.

The North Vietnamese could arm and train their soldiers in North Vietnam and choose when to attack (they were supplied by the Soviet Union and China). As long as the North Vietnamese were willing to take the casualties from the bombing and land fighting, they could continue the war indefinitely.

Here's (http://www.clausewitz.com/readings/SummersObitText.htm)a famous quote from the war about Harry Summers:

"In July 1974 he returned to Vietnam as chief of the Negotiations Division of the Four Party Joint Military Team (FPJMT). The main task of the U.S. delegation was to resolve the status of those Americans still listed as missing. During one of his liaison trips to Hanoi, Harry had his now-famous exchange with his North Vietnamese counterpart. When Harry told him, "You know, you never beat us on the battlefield," Colonel Tu responded, "That may be so, but it is also irrelevant."

Mike

[Dave Anderson NH]

I watched the whole series beginning to end. While there were some quibbles on my part about how things were portrayed, overall I would give the series a grade of B. I would also characterize the series as " a political history of the war with bits of the war thrown in." The biggest omission is that no mention was made (or I missed it) that it wasn't a single war. It was 10,000 very different wars in different locales and everyone participants perception made it millions of individual wars. My single biggest gripe about the series is a somewhat personal one. No mention was made of the Marine Corps Combined Action Program, a very successful US/Vietnamese effort. Google it if you are interested.

[Mel Fulks]

I doubt I'll watch it, but I'm wondering if there is much about the pentagon papers ?

[Frederick Skelly]

I doubt I'll watch it, but I'm wondering if there is much about the pentagon papers ?

Purely an aside, the National Archives have them posted online at this location: https://www.archives.gov/research/pentagon-papers.

[Nick Decker]

I doubt I'll watch it, but I'm wondering if there is much about the pentagon papers ?

Yes, there was quite a bit about them in one of the episodes.

[Chris Parks]

It was different wars to different people and even nations. Australia, New Zealand and Britain had just been through a similar "war" in Malaya where "communists" had decided that the government needed the boot, between the three nations they concocted a plan and effectively squashed the guerilla style action by doing exactly the same, live in the bush and match them. The Ozzies went into Vietnam with that back ground and did the same thing and the North Viets were not impressed so they fought a different style of action to the American forces which relied on mass destruction. In the end it was a futile exercise in stupidity as no one in the country wanted them there but our political betters kept shouting the commies are coming and insisted that the action go on to the cost of every country involved. Looking back it is staggering to think how many lives were lost at the whim of politicians who just wanted to get re-elected.

[Jerry Bruette]

I was born in 1960 and have two older brothers that had low numbers in the draft lottery, one was drafted and the other enlisted, neither served in Viet Nam. I'm thankful that I have brothers that aren't scarred from being there. My parents watched the news every night and I can still remember the nightly body counts that Walter Cronkite would give.

I watched the series to learn about what happened and I didn't know or understand at the age of 8 or 10. I think I learned alot about the war, why it happened and why it shouldn't have and didn't have to turn out the way it did. I hope other people in much more powerful and influential positions have also learned why wars of that type and supposed purpose shouldn't be fought.

To all the vets regardless of which branch you belonged I thank you for your service and if you are scarred I hope you can someday heal.