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Doug Hepler
09-20-2017, 1:59 PM
Can someone recommend a vendor who sells narrow (3/16"-1/4" wide) flat wood rasps? My internet searches have not been satisfactory. I see sets of rifflers available but their cut and width are rarely specified. If a set included a medium grain in the right width I would be happy to buy it.

I have been making some keyed miter joints by hand (where a wooden key is inserted transversely). I think these are also called false (faux) box joints. Normally the key is 3/16" - 1/4" thick. I make them by hand, and finish the bottom of the recess with a chisel. Because this is end grain a wood rasp would be quicker and smoother to get a flat bottom.

Doug

David Bassett
09-20-2017, 2:14 PM
... narrow (3/16"-1/4" wide) flat wood rasps? ....

Can't help with that, but I wonder if plane maker floats would work for you? Several vendors of those. (They come side & edge, if you have vertical clearance an edge looks like it'd be narrow enough.)

Patrick Chase
09-20-2017, 3:26 PM
Can't help with that, but I wonder if plane maker floats would work for you? Several vendors of those. (They come side & edge, if you have vertical clearance an edge looks like it'd be narrow enough.)

I had the same reaction: This sounds like a job for an edge float (https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/planemakers-floats/1-fe-1-8-edge-floats?node=4098). Time tested tools posted a float review (http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/10/24/plane-makers-float-review/) a while back that might be useful for selecting one.

Patrick Chase
09-20-2017, 3:46 PM
Thinking about this some more, a 6" square rasp might be slender enough: http://www.hand-stitched-rasp-riffler.com/index.php?id_product=7&controller=product&id_lang=4#/8-piqure-10/20-gamme-traditional/23-taille-150_mm_6/437-main_d_utilisation-right_handed

Your best bet would probably be to reach out to Noel Liogier and see what he has. He certainly sells well-regarded edge floats in the size range you require, and the smaller sizes of his square rasps may also be <1/4".

Corradi makes inexpensive square-profile "needle rasps (http://www.corradishop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_18&products_id=3&zenid=9ea4283a8dbb4a32d92c0ee6eaf6251a)" and "handy rasps (http://www.corradishop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_19&products_id=2&zenid=9ea4283a8dbb4a32d92c0ee6eaf6251a)" that fit the bill, though neither of those cut as well as their Gold-line rasps (or anything from Liogier). If you get the handy rasps then I suggest the cut-2 versions.

Patrick Chase
09-20-2017, 4:47 PM
I see sets of rifflers available but their cut and width are rarely specified. If a set included a medium grain in the right width I would be happy to buy it.

Sorry about the mail-bombing but I have the TFWW/Gramercy (3 pc for $50) and Liogier (8 pc for a freaking boatload of money) riffler sets at home. I'll check and see if any of them would work for your application, though I don't think they're well suited offhand. The biggest problem is that they all have toothed faces/cheeks (more on this below).


I have been making some keyed miter joints by hand (where a wooden key is inserted transversely). I think these are also called false (faux) box joints. Normally the key is 3/16" - 1/4" thick. I make them by hand, and finish the bottom of the recess with a chisel. Because this is end grain a wood rasp would be quicker and smoother to get a flat bottom.

Thinking about your use case some more, you would ideally want safe faces so that the rasp/float doesn't disturb the cheeks while you work the bottoms. That being the case it seems to me that your application would be well served by an edge float, as David and I discussed in #2 and #3.

Another possibility is something like the Lie-Nielsen Mortise float (https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/joinery-floats/1-fm-1-4-mortise-floats?node=4089) in 1/4" width. It's basically a slimmed down edge float as far as I can tell.

steven c newman
09-20-2017, 4:50 PM
Do you have access to a few old bandsaw blades? Was a time when I'd keep the broken blades around.....when there was enough, I would cut them into 12" lengths, and gang them up into a rasp. Coarse or fine, depending on the blade's tooth count. Set the teeth so they "miss" each other, and tape the ends together to act as a handle. Hated to just throw the blades out....

Patrick Chase
09-20-2017, 6:03 PM
Do you have access to a few old bandsaw blades? Was a time when I'd keep the broken blades around.....when there was enough, I would cut them into 12" lengths, and gang them up into a rasp. Coarse or fine, depending on the blade's tooth count. Set the teeth so they "miss" each other, and tape the ends together to act as a handle. Hated to just throw the blades out....

Sort of like a Shinto rasp (https://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/the-venerable-and-inscrutable-shinto-rasp)?

Doug Hepler
09-20-2017, 7:39 PM
Patrick, I wrote to TFWW to ask about what they have. Thanks for the tip. If you happen to measure your set, let me know what you find. Liogier does not seem to have a tool narrow enough and the prices are !?!?

David, et al I have heard of floats, naturally, but have no actual experience. If a float were toothed on the side and thin enough it might work. Of course, I cut the side walls so precisely ;) that I would never need to widen the groove.

Steven, that's an interesting and clever idea. Hell, I could buy a pack of blades for the price of the file I'm looking for.

Doug

Lee Schierer
09-20-2017, 8:48 PM
What about a coarse cut square file (https://www.mcmaster.com/#bastard-files/=19h0cgx)?

Patrick Chase
09-20-2017, 10:45 PM
What about a coarse cut square file (https://www.mcmaster.com/#bastard-files/=19h0cgx)?

That would work, though a square cut rasp or a float would both be (a lot) faster.

One thing to be aware of is that the specified dimension of a file or rasp is the thickness of the blank before the teeth are raised. The '0.25 inch wide' 6" square file from McMaster will measure a bit more than 1/4 (Doug's upper limit). By the same token, the 6 mm square Corradi Handy Rasp is actually 0.257 or so (I measured mine tonight). Obviously a safe-cheeked file/rasp/float won't have that issue.

Barney Markunas
09-21-2017, 8:56 AM
A float would probably fill the bill it Lee Valley has Italian needle rasps in their current catalog. 5.5" long unfortunately no stated width. I I guess you could carefully grind it narrower of need be.

Patrick Chase
09-21-2017, 11:58 AM
A float would probably fill the bill it Lee Valley has Italian needle rasps in their current catalog. 5.5" long unfortunately no stated width. I I guess you could carefully grind it narrower of need be.

The "Italian needle rasps" in the LV catalog are the 140 mm files from here (http://www.corradishop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_18&products_id=3&zenid=9ea4283a8dbb4a32d92c0ee6eaf6251a). I have the 160 mm version (bought directly from Corradi) and mentioned them in post 4. The square files are 2.6 mm and 4 mm across the face in the 140 and 160 mm sizes respectively.

The 160 mm equalling rasp from that family measures exactly 0.25" across. It's spec'ed at 6.0 mm but that's before toothing.

Doug Hepler
09-21-2017, 2:42 PM
Guys,

I am impressed by your knowledge. Based on what Barney & Patrick wrote I think the LV Italian Needle Rasp set will include what I want. I went to the Corradi site and it looks like their 140 mm equalling needle rasp is (a) the size I want and (b) included in the LV set. It would have cost $25 shipping to buy one rasp from Corradi so the LV set at $50 made more sense.

Thanks very much for the advice and the education. The Corradi site caused me to go to the Wikipedia monograph on files. Wow. "Who knew it was so complicated?"

Doug

Patrick Chase
09-21-2017, 2:55 PM
Guys,

I am impressed by your knowledge. Based on what Barney & Patrick wrote I think the LV Italian Needle Rasp set will include what I want. I went to the Corradi site and it looks like their 140 mm equalling needle rasp is (a) the size I want and (b) included in the LV set. It would have cost $25 shipping to buy one rasp from Corradi so the LV set at $50 made more sense.

Thanks very much for the advice and the education. The Corradi site caused me to go to the Wikipedia monograph on files. Wow. "Who knew it was so complicated?"

Doug

... or you could order from Corradi and take advantage of the flat shipping rate to pick up a couple of their "Gold" rasps while you're at it. They're machine-made, but very very good, not far short of Liogiers and Aurious in terms of cutting rate and surface finish. See for example this review (https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/half-round-cabinet-rasps) or this article (https://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/corradi-rasps-leave-surprisingly-fine-surface).

My "good" rasps are mostly Liogier and a couple Aurious, but I also have some Corradis for work where I don't want to risk the hand-stitched ones. There's still a difference between hand-stitched and machine-made, but it's a *lot* smaller than in the old days.

Every Corradi order I've ever placed has shown up via FedEx within 2 business days. IIRC the shipping is typically 22 Euros. Do your wallet a favor and don't look at the Corinox files (needle, rasp, and regular). Like Vallorbe Valtitan they're hardened to ~Rc72 and capable of filing metals hardened to ~Rc60.

Barney Markunas
09-21-2017, 6:25 PM
Not much knowledge on my part... I just happened to bring the LV catalog with me to pass some dead time while I waited for a contractor. i apologize for the typos in my previous message. I should know better than to try to do this sort of thing from my phone.

I've been curious about the Corradis after seeing them mentioned favorably here on occasion, but I've not yet gotten around to pulling the trigger. My better half has encouraged me to be more careful about discerning the difference between needs and wants.

I hope you find the right tool for the job - that always makes the work much more pleasant.

Doug Hepler
09-27-2017, 5:57 PM
Just to wrap this up, the Corradi riffler set arrived from Lee Valley today and they are very satisfactory. The flat ones actually cut 1/4" wide but they cut well and leave a smooth enough surface for my needs. So, thanks again for the advice.

Doug

Patrick Chase
09-27-2017, 6:16 PM
Just to wrap this up, the Corradi riffler set arrived from Lee Valley today and they are very satisfactory. The flat ones actually cut 1/4" wide but they cut well and leave a smooth enough surface for my needs. So, thanks again for the advice.

Doug

Yep, I like mine. They're really useful little tools. Glad they worked out!

Mike Holbrook
09-28-2017, 4:27 PM
Lee Valley woodworking>shaping>Japanese Milled-Tooth Plane Maker's Floats, Japanese Milled-Tooth Files. Highland Woodworking >Files, Rasps & Rifflers>Iwasaki...... They are all made by Iwasaki in Japan. I find the fine cut files... work better and even faster for me.

Patrick Chase
09-28-2017, 4:42 PM
Lee Valley woodworking>shaping>Japanese Milled-Tooth Plane Maker's Floats, Japanese Milled-Tooth Files. Highland Woodworking >Files, Rasps & Rifflers>Iwasaki...... They are all made by Iwasaki in Japan. I find the fine cut files... work better and even faster for me.

Yep. LV doesn't offer the edge float, which is the Iwasaki that would have met Doug's specific need, but Highland does.

The X-fine Iwasakis are outstanding tools. I posted close-up macro shots (1.3 microns/pixel) of both the toothing and the resulting surface on a piece of offcut a few days ago. The "integral chip breaker" in those things is a nifty piece of tooth-forming.

David Bassett
09-28-2017, 5:50 PM
Yep. LV doesn't offer the edge float, ....

Uhh, isn't THIS (http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=69096&cat=1,42524) it?

Patrick Chase
09-28-2017, 6:02 PM
Uhh, isn't THIS (http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=69096&cat=1,42524) it?

Whoops, indeed it is. They just don't have it on the same page as the others. Thanks!

Mike Holbrook
09-29-2017, 9:17 AM
I provided two locations at Lee Valley (LV) specifically because the "float" and files/rasps... were at different locations. LV does not identify these tools as being made by Iwasaki, Highland Woodworking does, which may be the reason the items are handled differently. Might be that LV has manufacturing differences/specifications on the ones they sell, but I doubt it.