Anyone use a reverse profile to cope trim on a shaper

[James Biddle]

I can hand cut copes for trim and make them look pretty good. But, it takes me SO long to do each one (10 min minimum with a redo every 5 to 10 cuts). I have about 50 cuts upcoming on my remodel project in my house that when I factor in how long it takes me, it does not look fun. The top cap is only 1-3/8" tall and would fit easily enough on the shaper.

I milled the top caps on my Williams and Hussey molder. I already have the W&H shaper spindle. I was wondering if I couldn't order an opposite profile cutter that I could use on my shaper? My thinking is I cut the cope on one end of the trim piece and use that piece of trim into a corner after cutting the opposite corner on the flat. Cut a new cope after cutting off the previous.

My guess is the cutter would cost me $100-$150 but the time savings would be worth it if it works. The wood is poplar and will be painted trim white.

Anyone do this or should I just suck it up and use this a learning experience on how to hand cut copes faster?

[Justin Ludwig]

I'm not completely following what it is you're doing. You're coping window casing? Got a picture?

[Darcy Warner]

Coping foot for a jig saw. Easy peasy.

[Jeff Bartley]

If you have 50 to cut just go after it, after the first 10 I guarantee it won't take 10 mins each.
Is this a base cap?

[Larry Edgerton]

I did it once when I had to do a very large coffered ceiling in a restaurant. But the pieces were all short and there were over 400 pieces which justified the expense. For a smaller job I would do it by hand. Collins coping foot will work as well.

A coping saw is only as good as the blade, if you are using hardware store blades, that may be your problem.

[Mark Wooden]

I'd say to just cope them by hand also; the collins foot is good (I have two), but I more often just grab my coping saw unless I'm doing large hardwood mouldings like rift and quartered white oak.

But I need to ask-it sounds like you're working too hard to cut your copes- do you have your blades in the saw so you're cutting on the push or the pull?

The correct way to use a coping saw -and I don't wish to start a whole argument about it- is to have the teeth pointing toward the handle, and cut on the pull stroke. You should have you're coping stand/ high enough to have your hand underneath the stock and cut into the face, pulling the saw down into the cut. You'll be able to see the edge to cut the profile much easier if you're not looking around the saw handle. You'll also be able to slightly back cut easier also- an excessive back cut will make a joint that will show a bigger open later when the stock dries in the heating season. Yeah,Yeah, I know-caulk it- but its better if you don't have to use two tubes per room ain't it?
Also, keep a few cabinetmakers files and rasps at your station to touch up your cuts, easier than trying to shave off a 32nd with a saw, knife or sandpaper
I've been using a coping saw for forty years(professionally) this way and I dull blades before I break them- usually get a couple of houses out of one blade. I like the Olsen or Nicholsen blades, 10-15 TPI

[Justin Ludwig]

Guess I needed more coffee. I totally misread his post.

I clamp my pieces in a jawhorse and cope them by hand with a jigsaw.

[jack forsberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmlnubn4Edk

[Justin Ludwig]

That's pretty slick, Jack. I'm gonna rob that technique. Thanks for posting.

[Martin Wasner]

I've wanted to try a death wheel on a grinder for a while.

I cut them with a jigsaw, touch it up with a belt sander, use files to hit what I can't reach with the belt sander.

I also keep meaning to order a belt sander that Makita makes. Has a 1" wide belt that is mostly exposed. More like a speed file. A trimmer buddy has one, really slick for coping.

[peter gagliardi]

There are lots of ways to do this.
Like Mark said, and I was taught in vocational class, the correct way with coping saw is to cut on the pull stroke.

However, once I had to make a living doing it with speed and precision, I turned that blade around and now cut on the push stroke, and have for 25 years. You can do the whole cut to fit with only the coping saw, but if you get a fine toothed rasp to go along, you will be much faster.
I got good and quick enough that I got the trim jobs over the veteran guys on the crew because it was easy to outpace them with my method.
I bought the collins foot, tried it, threw it in the trash after about 1/2 hour.
You can also cope on a tablesaw freehand if you are competent and careful.
You just have to be smarter than the wood.
More practice will make you quicker.

[John Gulick]

We have been using one of our band saws for this operation, quick and no chip out. Just like anything once you get the hang of it ......

[James Biddle]

Yeah, it's base cap molding. Many of the copes will be on a 45...a lot of material to hog out behind the cope. I guess I'll bite the bullet and hand cut them.

[Larry Copas]

Jack, what kind of abrasive blade are you using?

I've coped for years using a right angle grinder with coarse sandpaper grits but they wear out fast.

[James Biddle]

It'll give me a chance to practice with my Knew Concepts coping saw and blades. I saw one vote for cutting on the push stroke, but I've always cut on the pull. Anyone else like cutting on the push?

[Martin Wasner]

It'll give me a chance to practice with my Knew Concepts coping saw and blades. I saw one vote for cutting on the push stroke, but I've always cut on the pull. Anyone else like cutting on the push?

I'm not a fan of cutting on the push. I like the handle beneath the material, and pulling down. You're also pulling down on profile so you can get a little more cute with how tight you are to the line. That's when I actually break out the coping saw, I do everything I can with a jig saw with an 1/8" wide blade.

[Mel Fulks]

I consider handle down correct because it's easier to make vertical cut. But when you lend a coping saw ,expect to get it back reversed by a superior workman too cheap to buy one.

[James Biddle]

You guys are right...the first one took me 15 minutes and it was ugly. After 10 of them it only takes 3 minutes and they look really good. I've just been working on the 90 degree corners so far. Any tips for when I get to the 135 degree corners (or is it 45 degree corners)? I've got two hallways upstairs moving off in different directions that have about 10 of those weird angles.

[Jeff Bartley]

Good job James!
I too like to cut on the pull but I actually hold the handle above the work. I was taught to keep a loose but controlled grip on the saw and to keep it moving. I get close to the cut line then go back over it with a utility knife.
Those 45 degree corners are tougher for sure, you really have to put a back cut on the work!

[Bill Adamsen]

So many interesting ideas. I would stick with the coping saw (never thought of turning the blade around – thanks PG) and files, and use the money saved to buy a pair (or set – depending on your project) of Hartford clamps.

[jack forsberg]

Jack, what kind of abrasive blade are you using?

I've coped for years using a right angle grinder with coarse sandpaper grits but they wear out fast.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/LBIAAOSwbsBXkNMp/s-l300.jpg

[James Biddle]

Wow, I ripped through all of the cuts and fit all the trim I needed in about 8 hours. 48 pieces of trim, but only about 30 of them needed copes, and about 10 had obtuse angle copes. Turns out I'm faster at cutting copes on the RH corners (left edge of the trim). I used my coping saw, and a rat-tail file and Japanese finger file to clean them up. Now I have to take them off, sand, prime, sand, and then install them.

[peter gagliardi]

One thing I failed to mention. If you turn the blade around, and cut on the push stroke, you will quickly learn the quality of your coping saw frame.
It demands a strong frame. The cheapo 1/4"-5/16" bent round bar units flex terribly.
The ones that have a flattened spine that might measure 1/8" or so thick x about 1/2" wide work infinitely better.
I recently ordered a Knew Concepts saw to see if they were better.
I like it, but the stock handle is terribly uncomfortable and doesn't give much control. The frame is definitely stiff though.

You WILL break an occasional blade due to fatigue, or aggressive technique, but you can very easily cut at least twice as fast. A Nicholson 5 in one rasp, and/or a half round and rat tail file bastard cut are standard for final fitting.