Angle Drill for Sanding Failure

[Thomas Canfield]

I had yet another failure of angle drill used for sanding. It made 2 Neiko brand that failed in the last 3 months, both being about 3+ years old so not that much a surprise. It seems that all the drills fail with the rear motor bearing failure or the plastic supporting the bearing overheating and bearing wearing out support. I suspect it is a bearing failure. I had a Milwaukee in the past that failed in same manner along with a couple more red and one blue cheapy. Length of service from all seems to be about same 3 years of seldom use with 2 or 3" sanding disks. Maybe the different manufacturers do not get any reports on the types of failure (all same basically) so that they can correct the design problem, or possibly it is a planned failure point to sell more drills. Have others had similar failures?

[John K Jordan]

I had yet another failure of angle drill used for sanding. It made 2 Neiko brand that failed in the last 3 months, both being about 3+ years old so not that much a surprise. It seems that all the drills fail with the rear motor bearing failure or the plastic supporting the bearing overheating and bearing wearing out support. I suspect it is a bearing failure. I had a Milwaukee in the past that failed in same manner along with a couple more red and one blue cheapy. Length of service from all seems to be about same 3 years of seldom use with 2 or 3" sanding disks. Maybe the different manufacturers do not get any reports on the types of failure (all same basically) so that they can correct the design problem, or possibly it is a planned failure point to sell more drills. Have others had similar failures?

Thomas, I've read about a lot of these failures over the years on other forums. There were some reports that dust buildup is the problem and suggested regularly blowing out the dust.

My only experience is with a Milwaukee I've had for well over a decade. I did blow the dust out occasionally but I quit power sanding at least 5-6 years ago so I can't comment on the "normal" life. (I switched to hand scrapers instead of power sanding and more recently started using the Grex random orbital sander with 2" disks - fantastic, far more gentle and easier to control, I think better results. But it is expensive and needs a big compressor.)

JKJ

[Thomas Canfield]

John,

Dust buildup inside the drills is a problem, but not seen in the area of the failure on the internal real next to brushes. Heat has to be a big contributor. I don't use the angle drill for sanding as much as earlier using a lot of hand sanding now and recently did get a pneumatic orbital sander but do not use it that often either. I use a 5"ROS a lot on external large surfaces where not as likely to have flat spots. I need to try a scraper.

[Olaf Vogel]

I had yet another failure of angle drill used for sanding.

Drills are not mean for continuous use like that. So they overheat. Its also possible that your hand is covering the exhaust vents.

1 - Get a "milwaukee right angle drill attachment" or similar
https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWARAFS-Right-Angle-Shaft/dp/B013UBXU3E/ref=sr_1_20?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1505268692&sr=1-20&keywords=flex+shaft
2 - Hook it up to a generic flex shaft kit like this: https://www.amazon.com/Enkay-115-C-Shaft-4-Inch-Carded/dp/B001PTSWJ6
3 - Attach any old 1750 rpm surplus motor of 1/5 hp or more.

That will be quiet and run all day without getting hot. A bit of DIY, but cheap.

I do large pieces and thats how I sand. Thats what I used, hard, for 5 years with 3" and 5" discs, I have never burnt out a motor or any of those parts.
(Last year I got lucky and found an old machine like this: http://www.terrco.com/flexshaft/flexshaftgrinders.php, so its what I use now. Same idea as a Foredom, but with 2 hp.)

[Brian Kent]

The longest lasting for me has been the Harbor Freight $39 drill (before coupons). Lasted much longer than my Neiko and was inexpensive to replace when I needed to.

[John K Jordan]

Dust buildup inside the drills is a problem, but not seen in the area of the failure on the internal real next to brushes. ...I use a 5"ROS a lot on external large surfaces where not as likely to have flat spots. I need to try a scraper.

If dust can be found elsewhere on moving parts in the motor housing, perhaps near a front bearing, it seems possible that it could cause friction and make the motor work harder, causing more heat in an area with no dust. I haven't examined a failed one so this is speculation.

Have you seen the 3" pneumatic ROS (palm sander) that Woodturners Wonders sells for pretty cheap? One nice thing about it is the valve can be set to limit the speed as desired. I usually sand pretty slowly with the lathe off - I have more control and the amount of dust in the air is less.

I've used these and a few other scrapers since soon after I started turning and discovered too much heat from sanding put checks in an eastern red cedar bowl. I cut the first one from the end of a larger scraper with a Dremel then found various sets over the years. Sharpened and burnished burr just like a cabinet scraper.

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However, just last year I discovered these much thicker scrapers sold by StewMac (Stewart McDonald) who cater to people who make musical instruments. They are expensive but high quality and the edge lasts longer. I use these now where I can, or at least try them first, especially the smallest one.

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Scrapers/StewMac_Ultimate_Scraper.html

JKJ

[Don McClure]

I too have had all the angle drills fail, even the expensive ones...so I stick with the Harbor Freight $39 version and use one of their easy to find 20% off coupons. I usually take out the "protection" program. Write the date pf purchase on the drill with sharpie or engraver and hang on the receipt. So if the drill fails before a year, I walk in with it and out with a new one. Sone or their drill will go 3-4 yrs before I wear them out!
They are considered a disposable in my shop.

[Grant Wilkinson]

I think the other reason that drills fail is that we are putting big side loads on the their bearings. The drill is made for drilling. Doing that, there is almost no side loads. We put a 3" disk on them and push it into spinning wood. The side loads are much bigger than the bearings are made to take.

The solution is to buy a sander - or live with limited drill life. :-)

[ALAN HOLLAR]

The rear bearings are too small, and mounted directly into a molded seat in the drill housing. When the bearing gives up and seizes, the outer race spins in the case and melts the bearing seat, so that even replacing the bearing doesn't work. I have right angle drills from DeWalt. Actually, one of them is in the black case from the Black and Decker professional line so it must be 20 years old, and all are working fine. The rear bearing is larger and sits in a rubber cup that seats in the drill housing. I have replaced the gear box on the oldest one, but the front and rear motor bearings are still good.

[John K Jordan]

.. When the bearing gives up and seizes, the outer race spins in the case and melts the bearing seat, so that even replacing the bearing doesn't work. ..

It sounds like occasional preemptive bearing replacement would be helpful for those who use these for sanding. I haven't checked but usually bearings are are cheaper than dirt, or, at least cheaper than compost!

Could the melted seat be rebuilt with some JB Weld? (a new bearing for a mold, thin plastic wrap for release) I've repaired a bunch of plastic things around the farm with that epoxy. But it might not be worth the effort for the cheap one...

JKJ

[Joe Frank Porter]

I too had a failure with the multi-named angle drill. As advised on this site, I went with the Harbor Freight angle drill and have been pleased.

[Reed Gray]

I used to keep a loose count of bowls sanded before the drill failed. First of all, they are drills, not grinders, and we use them as grinders. I can't tell that the dust does any thing serious for wear, especially if the bearings are 'double shielded' rather than 'shielded'. I used to get 300 plus bowls per rebuild. I started sanding at low speeds, never more than half a trigger pull, and with very light pressure, which lets the abrasives cut far better than they do if you are sanding at high speeds. I almost always use 3 inch discs. The bowl count went up to 450 or so. I have replaced the cases on all of them at least once. I had one cheap knock off brand, and it didn't last a month before the case failed. Looking for some thing better, but thinking a flex shaft would be the way to go. The Fordham set up can take 3 inch discs, but don't think they would be pushing the limits with 3 inch discs, even with their larger motor, and it would be good to be able to run 5 or so inch discs... One like Olaf has would be a bit of overkill, but I don't think I could wear that one out before my birth certificate expires...

robo hippy

[Prashun Patel]

I discovered scrapers as John Jordan has. These have really been a revelation for two reasons. The first is that it is able to smooth out ridges, so my bowls are now 'flatter' than they have ever been. But they also do a great job at rough smoothing, which means I can usually jump straight to 150 or 220 grit on the angle drill. My angle drill sees less use now.

I also vaccuum my drill after each session and this has seemed to improve the life of my second Neiko.

[Bob Bouis]

One thing I would suggest is that you don't try to blow out the bearings with compressed air. Sealed bearings are...sealed, but the seal won't repel compressed air, which will end up pushing dust into the bearing, and lubricant out of it.

That's my theory anyway.

[Dennis Ford]

I have had the same failures. Usually I hear bearing noises before they seize up and destroy the plastic housing. The bearings are inexpensive if purchased online (I use VXB bearings). Changing the bearings is not difficult although reassembling the drill is tricky as you wish for three hands that fit in a small space.
I tried a right angle drill from Harbor Freight and it was much more durable but not as comfortable to use. I don't think dust is affecting the bearings that much although I agree that compressed can blow dust into the bearing which would be a problem. Excessive dust will cause overheating but I would expect that to affect the windings more than bearings.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I have a Milwaukee close quarter drill and use it as a sander,two years ago my son used it to do some sanding on a threshold, he had stopped using iras he said it made some funny noise.

As I had read about the failures with these drills I assumed it was history, anyway, I opened it up and found the rear bearing ceased, there was sanding dust in the housing even though I would blow it out occasionally.

So when the bearing ceased it rotated in the plastic housing and it melted/wore the opening, and then the armature would start to bounce around, making the funny noise.

I examined the bearing, it was a shielded bearing, good enough for drilling what it was designed for, but with sanding dust had gotten into the bearing as I found when taking the shields off.

So nothing to loose I decided to see if I could repair the housing opening, I got some two part epoxy (3M) and build the opening up, I had put the bearing back onto the armature and laid the bearing into the epoxy, closed the two halves almost tight and let the epoxy harden up.

Next day opened the drill up again and removed the armature and the bearing from it, cut the excess epoxy away, got a new bearing and reassembled the drill, plugged it in and pulled the trigger................... and she was just smoothly running again :D.

So the problem is that the shielded bearing will eventually get enough wood dust in it and cease up, and then ruin the housing, if this had been a sealed bearing this would not happen for a long time.

Mine is running again just fine, but if I ever need to buy a new one again (not likely), I will replace that shielded bearing with a sealed one right away.

[Reed Gray]

I did see the scrapers from Stew/Mac some time ago. I got a kick out of the video on how to grind them. I commented on it that he needed a CBN wheel and one of my rests...... Anyway, John in particular, what do you use for a burnishing rod? I am playing with some 3/16 by 1 1/2 inch micro grained carbide rods I picked up. I do like them better than the steel ones I picked up at the local big box stores. Still experimenting with burnished burrs on V10 and M42 for my shear scraping.

John and Prashun, please PM or e-mail me...

robo hippy

[Fred Belknap]

Reed I have those scrapers and highly recommend them. I grind mine on a CBN wheel but your rest won't go to a setting I can use to sharpen them. I have my old rest that came with the Wolverine and set it to zero tightened it down and don't change it so when I need to sharpen one of those scrapers it is just a matter of taking one rest out and sticking in the other. You can use then in both directions so probably a 6" wheel would sharpen them better but I get good results with an 8" wheel.

[Prashun Patel]

Reed, I'm sure I don't have more valuable info to add on this than John. But I will say that I fashioned my scrapers from an old pull shark saw blade. The profiles on the 'flatworld' scrapers are too big to be used inside bowls for me.

I do not burnish my scrapers for bowls. I chuck them in a vise and run a mill file over them @ 90 degrees until I get a feel it cutting well along the entire length. Then I go straight to the bowl (reverse + slowest speed on the outside, forward + slowest speed on the inside). I use shallow concave radius on the outside and a tiny gooseneck-ish one on the inside. I present at about 45 degrees to the axis, and at a very acute angle (almost 0 degrees) to the face.

My lathe bottoms out at 250 RPM, which gives me troubles on near the end grain. So, I scrape that area with the lathe off and the index pin engaged.

[Don Jarvie]

If you have a big enough compressor it may be worth going the air tool route.

[John K Jordan]

If you have a big enough compressor it may be worth going the air tool route.

I mentioned the Grex a time or two, but here is a picture to show the shape and size, here with a 2" pad:

367815
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HFPDJQ

I have 2" and 1" sanding pads and shaft extensions to get into deeper spots. This thing is very light weight, easy to handle, variable speed. I mostly use it with the lathe off. What I really like is I can run it slow and it's very gentle, almost like hand sanding. I learned about this from Rudy Lopez at a TN symposium.

I use a 5-hp 60 horse compressor in my shop but when sanding it doesn't run all the time. Maybe I should hook it up to one of my pancake compressors and see if that would drive it OK.

The price is about $5 more right now than when I bought it about a year and a half ago but I see from camelcamelcamel.com that it has come down 80-90 bucks at times. If interested in one, it might be worth setting a price watch.

JKJ

[Roger Chandler]

I found this video on how to tear down & lubricate the Harbor Freight close quarters drill.......I have the identical unit, and on the last two projects, it has gotten pretty hot in my hands, and the thing has gotten a lot louder....almost like it is screaming, and hurts my ears. I have used it pretty heavily over the last 3 to 4 years, so I am not upset at all....one of the best $30 I ever spent, I suppose.

https://youtu.be/Ti03m5fDV_k

I went to our local Harbor Freight and got a new one, with the 20% off coupon, and went ahead and got the two year extended warranty. The new one is much quieter! I tried to take my old one apart, so I could try to lubricate it, but the jacobs chuck would not come off.....the screw head is stripped and even a come out tool did not help. The metal on the screw head is too soft for it to bite, and it just reamed out the head.

I was a bit surprised that the gears and all are steel, and looks fairly well made on the insides.........I might try to fix my old one at a later date. A good video for someone who might want to service their unit.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I found this video on how to tear down & lubricate the Harbor Freight close quarters drill.......I have the identical unit, and on the last two projects, it has gotten pretty hot in my hands, and the thing has gotten a lot louder....almost like it is screaming, and hurts my ears. I have used it pretty heavily over the last 3 to 4 years, so I am not upset at all....one of the best $30 I ever spent, I suppose.

https://youtu.be/Ti03m5fDV_k

I went to our local Harbor Freight and got a new one, with the 20% off coupon, and went ahead and got the two year extended warranty. The new one is much quieter! I tried to take my old one apart, so I could try to lubricate it, but the jacobs chuck would not come off.....the screw head is stripped and even a come out tool did not help. The metal on the screw head is too soft for it to bite, and it just reamed out the head.

I was a bit surprised that the gears and all are steel, and looks fairly well made on the insides.........I might try to fix my old one at a later date. A good video for someone who might want to service their unit.

My Milwaukee close quarter drill is not like the one in your link Roger, a picture here shows it and also the Neiko that a lot of turners bought, I would say it is identical, the parts chart shows a real different layout than in the link.

The #2 is the rear bearing nd being the culprit, the replacement shows that it is a shielded bearing, replacing that with a sealed is what is required when using it as a sander.

367831367832367833367834

[Thomas Wilson80]

I've been using my nice Dewalt drill but after reading about the damage, I need to buy a cheaper alternative. Which HF drill are you using?

[Roger Chandler]

I've been using my nice Dewalt drill but after reading about the damage, I need to buy a cheaper alternative. Which HF drill are you using?The close quarters pro magnesium. It has all steel gears, and 3 bearings inside.......pretty good for $37.99.
https://shop.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/3/63119_zzz_500.jpg

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I've been using my nice Dewalt drill but after reading about the damage, I need to buy a cheaper alternative. Which HF drill are you using?

Thomas I have bought several regular variable speed drills that where on sale, as depending the shape I will use the regular drills, but I also bought the right angle and the Close Quarter drill that has a 55 degree head orientation, as I find the Close Quarter drill is easier to control than the right angle one, but having both gives me the option of using either one.

I always walk by the small tools just to see if there is an extra good priced drill on sale, if so, it follows me home :).

Here’s a picture of a couple of them, I have a few more :D.

367938

[Thomas Wilson80]

Thanks. Will have to pick one up ASAP.
Tom

[Thomas Wilson80]

And another quick question: Do most of you sand with the drill while running low speed on the lathe or off the lathe? It seems like I've read several posts over the last few months where people mention only sanding off the lathe and I wonder why as it seems like it would be more challenging/time consuming. Thoughts?
Thanks,
Tom

[Bob Bouis]

Usually you keep the piece on the lathe just because it holds it while you sand it.

But, yeah, a lot of sanding is done with the lathe off, just rotating the piece by hand. Especially if it's out of round.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

And another quick question: Do most of you sand with the drill while running low speed on the lathe or off the lathe? It seems like I've read several posts over the last few months where people mention only sanding off the lathe and I wonder why as it seems like it would be more challenging/time consuming. Thoughts?
Thanks,
Tom

Yes sanding is mostly done on the lathe, and only some final hand sanding is done away from the lathe.

[John K Jordan]

And another quick question: Do most of you sand with the drill while running low speed on the lathe or off the lathe? It seems like I've read several posts over the last few months where people mention only sanding off the lathe and I wonder why as it seems like it would be more challenging/time consuming. Thoughts?


Most of us? I'm certainly in the minority which doesn't bother me the least.

I do most of my bowl/platter sanding with the lathe off, rotating by hand and either sanding by hand or power sanding at a slow speed. This is easier with controlled cuts that don't need much sanding, using hand scrapers if needed to remove tool marks. Sanding by hand lets me sand with the grain, or sometimes with the figure. (As woodworkers we are taught the mantra "Sand with the grain, sand with the grain" then as turners we are taught "Grind hard across the grain with 80 grit paper and leave huge scratches." Hello?!) For me it is quicker to sand only where needed instead of all over then have to remove all those scratches. Sanding by hand and/or at a slow speed also minimizes the clouds of dust.

For many turnings it may not be practical to sand with the lathe running - some natural edged pieces, things that have warped, things with "wings" such as squarish platters/bowls, multi-axis turnings.

Also, I wet sand by hand quite a bit.

When hand sanding, I often sand across the last sanding direction just before I switch to a finer paper, especially on end grain and always on spindles. My theory is if I can't get 320 scratches out with the 320 paper, I'll never get them out with 400 paper.

But as mentioned, these days I never use a rotating disk from a drill for power sanding but use the little pneumatic Grex random orbital sander. This is much gentler and more controllable than the rotating disk. Run at slow speed it is VERY gentle and even more controllable. Almost always with the lathe turned off. The ROS never leaves scratches in big arcs.

One important sanding accessory not always mentioned is a good task light positioned at a glancing angle. Too much diffuse light from high overhead can hide the scratches by flooding the "valleys" with light.

Another useful accessory is a squeeze bottle of naptha. Wiped on it can reveal scratches nearly invisible otherwise. Dries extremely fast.

JKJ

[Bob Bergstrom]

I used to keep a loose count of bowls sanded before the drill failed. First of all, they are drills, not grinders, and we use them as grinders. I can't tell that the dust does any thing serious for wear, especially if the bearings are 'double shielded' rather than 'shielded'. I used to get 300 plus bowls per rebuild. I started sanding at low speeds, never more than half a trigger pull, and with very light pressure, which lets the abrasives cut far better than they do if you are sanding at high speeds. I almost always use 3 inch discs. The bowl count went up to 450 or so. I have replaced the cases on all of them at least once. I had one cheap knock off brand, and it didn't last a month before the case failed. Looking for some thing better, but thinking a flex shaft would be the way to go. The Fordham set up can take 3 inch discs, but don't think they would be pushing the limits with 3 inch discs, even with their larger motor, and it would be good to be able to run 5 or so inch discs... One like Olaf has would be a bit of overkill, but I don't think I could wear that one out before my birth certificate expires...

robo hippy
i too have thought about the flex shaft. For not much more than a Milwaukee drill one could get a 3 phase with controller. The flex shaft isn't cheap so total will be over $200. The three phase would give variable speed. Perhaps a foot switch to turn off and on.

[John K Jordan]

...before my birth certificate expires...


I might steal that line!

JKJ

[Olaf Vogel]

i too have thought about the flex shaft. For not much more than a Milwaukee drill one could get a 3 phase with controller. The flex shaft isn't cheap so total will be over $200. The three phase would give variable speed. Perhaps a foot switch to turn off and on.

Yup - 3ph motor, especially small ones, are really cheap when used.

VFDs - I get them off eBay, used, from China. The Delta ones are good, cheap and most importantly, have excellent instructions manuals. Never had an issue on any of my 5 units. >= 1hp should be <$100.

Thats a huge pet peeve of mine: supposedly premium makers, have manuals that are completely unintelligible. Then they change model numbers constantly, and provide only "authorized parts". Like a "remote cable" for $90, plus $50 shipping, which is really just a $5 LAN cable....

</rant>