Stropping Success, and a Double Success!

[Stew Denton]

Hi All,

Thanks to everyone who gave advise on my basic stropping question post. The advise and information was much appreciated, and very informative.

I put together a strop, gluing the leather on it Saturday, and finally getting a chance to give it a go today. I do want to put some spar varnish on the wooden part, but haven't yet.

For the strop, I planned down an old piece of 2X4 that came off a fence stringer, got it flat, smooth, and planned it down to where the corners were sharp and square on the face where I glued the leather. I used some vegetable tanned cow hide which is about 3/16" thick, and ended up with a strop about 15"X 3&1/4" X 1&1/4." Probably bigger than it needed to be. The leather is not a hard finish leather at all, but is a medium leather. I glued it down rough side toward the board and smooth side up, using too much spray adhesive, I thought, but now think I should have used more.

I used white gold honing compound and gave it a go with the iron off a Record 778 rebate/fillister plane that I have been tuning up. I had sharpened the iron, finishing up with a 6000 grit water stone I bought 30 or more years ago. It was pretty sharp before I started the stropping, but after it was noticeably sharper.

After reading the comments on the Basic Stropping post, I decided to stop it about 20 strokes on each the bevel and the back, using only mild pressure.

After the stropping, I finally put together the 778 that I have been tuning up, and gave it a go. It cut a very nice rabbit, and it was a double success for me, success stropping and the tuning up of the 778 turned out great!

I goofed, putting a finger against the iron while getting ready to start the rabbit, and had a cut immediately. I just basically touched it, but that was all it took.

Again, thanks for all of the comments and advise.

Stew

[steven c newman]

Sounds great to me! Have to be careful around them sharp objects....:eek:

[Ron Patrick]

Good job, I know that I didn't reach that "super sharp" (hair jumps off your arm, lol) until I started stropping.

[Jim Koepke]

After reading the comments on the Basic Stropping post, I decided to stop it about 20 strokes on each the bevel and the back, using only mild pressure.

This interests me to some extent. My blades are usually only stropped 3 to 10 times per side. Thinking about it a bit it seems to be a matter of strop firmness, the firmness of the stroke and how the edge was when presented to the strop.

Often after working an edge on a stone it is tested on my arm. In some cases it seems too good to be made any better by the strop and returns to work with only a few drags across my palm.

Testing before and after stropping is what led me to lessening the stropping after the stones.

Again, it may be my stropping technique needs some refinement.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

This interests me to some extent. My blades are usually only stropped 3 to 10 times per side. Thinking about it a bit it seems to be a matter strop firmness, the firmness of the stroke and how the edge was when presented to the strop.

It also depends on what strop material is used and whether it's "bare" or treated. 20 strokes on a bare leather strop is reasonable IMO, while that might be excessive (and lead to excessive rounding) with green compound. IIRC the straight-razor crowd sometimes make many more passes than that when using clean linen.

[David Ragan]

That is excellent, Stew.

This thread has been reassuring to me that stropping is still useful-I would be doing well to remember that more (pressure and times of strop) is not better

[Stew Denton]

Jim,

My method for choosing to stop stropping at the 20 passes point was based on the "wild guess" method. There were a lot of different methods, and I had watched some youtube videos that showed a lot of times on the strop.

I had guessed that: 1. how hard the leather is, 2. whether is is rough side or smooth side up, 3. how much pressure is use, (and now also have thought that: 4. how hard the chisel steel is), etc. probably all contributed to what number of strops is the best for a given combination of those factors. I had read your note on the technique of 3 to 10, and also saw some where the guy stropped 30 to 50 times, and quite firmly too. After a little thought, and after getting started, I decided on the 10 to 20, and also considered that since I wasn't putting a lot of pressure on the iron that going a few more strokes than you use probably wouldn't do any damage. However, I didn't want to go more strokes than that because my leather isn't very hard and also based on your warning (and others) about rounding over the edge, just arbitrarily stopped at the 10 to 20 strokes.

Thus, I decided to go for the middle ground and decided on 10 to 20 strops, but actually went to the strong end of that range, and had planned to check it when I got to that point. When I checked the iron it seemed pretty darned good, so put it in the plane and gave it a go. Maybe as I get more experience with it I can fine tune a bit, as I have no idea whether it would have been better to just use the 3 to 10 you use, or to go a lot more.

For the first go round, however, I was pretty pleased.

Regards,

Stew

[steven c newman]

Remember to strop the backs as well.....

[Jim Koepke]

Hi Stew,

The number of strokes on the strop is unimportant compared to the results. If you are getting the results you want, what someone else says is superfluous.

Recommendations are all over the place. One well known carving enthusiast says more than 10 is likely to round the edge. Another well known woodworker uses 30 or more, iirc. There really isn't a right or wrong answer, especially with all the variables.

What works for a person is what is best for that person.

My experience is with the strops in my shop and is based on checking the edge after it has been honed on my finest stone and then after stropping. The testing helped me to improve my stropping and sharpening. It also led me to see how incorrect stropping can degrade an edge.

Sometimes to not do something in a way that is detrimental, one has to identify what caused the unwanted result.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

I recently got interested in cooking and decided to upgrade my kitchen cutlery. I found a guy “ Burrfection” on YouTube, who reviews knives. He also has some interesting reviews of sharpening stones and more recently strops. He started making strops from very good materials. One can buy high grade leather, $4, for those who want to make their own. He has been experimenting with materials to back the leather up with and various compounds on the leathers. I ordered a strop he made, which I have been using without a compound. Just ordered another that I plan to use some compound, paste.....on. Mine get used more in the kitchen. Still if I feel that a given woodworking tool is not sharp enough.....I typically use Spyderco medium and ultrafine ceramic stones for my woodworking tools. I have LV green compound on MDF too, which translates to a relatively complete “maintenance” system for woodworking tools.

May be a source for some interested in the subject, with the understanding that Burrfection is more interested in razor sharp kitchen cutlery. Certainly kitchen knife maintenance may have significant differences from woodworking tool maintenance, still there may be similarities as well.

I might add that my sharpening techniques all revolve around getting the tool sharp enough for the work so I can get back to it. My interest in strops and sharpening compounds has to do with some evidence that more regular, less dramatic, refreshing of ones edge, may in fact save sharpening time and provide an improved edge for longer periods. I am not claiming that I necessarily believe this premise for woodworking tools. I am trying it for kitchen knives before I test it on woodworking tools.

[John C Cox]

Remember to strop the backs as well.....

I don't like to strop the backs... I have had issues messing up edge geometry of chisels pretty bad stropping backs on a charged strop. I prefer to touch the back on a finishing stone when stropping bevels...

But there may well be merit in stropping the back of a chisel or iron on an uncharged strop - to help straighten the edge.. I just haven't fooled with it (yet.. ;) ;) )

[steven c newman]

I do strop the backs...being careful to keep the blade flat on the strop, maybe 2-5 swipes. Just pull across the strop, keeping the blade flat on the strop...do NOT raise it until you are off the strop..

( used this a lot, on those Aldi's chisels....)

[ken hatch]

Congrats Stew....Good on you.

Finding what works takes time and observation along with kissing a few frogs. BTW, never be afraid of kissing frogs while it is not the only way to learn it can teach the needed lesson quickly.

ken

[michael langman]

I just made a strop 2 days ago with plywood and an old belt. I put the rough side of the belt up.
I found that stopping the chisel on the leather, and lifting it off of the strop, before getting to the end of my stropping stroke, helped to keep from rounding the sharp edge of my chisel.

[Bob Leistner]

i have a leather strop, but I've been trying just a piece of MDF with the green compound. Seems to work well and no chance of rounding the edge from the bevel or back side.

[John C Cox]

I do strop the backs...being careful to keep the blade flat on the strop, maybe 2-5 swipes. Just pull across the strop, keeping the blade flat on the strop...do NOT raise it until you are off the strop..

( used this a lot, on those Aldi's chisels....)

What do you do for the strop? Greased? Charged (with what?). Dry/uncharged?

[Steve Kaminska]

I strop on MDF charged with green compound also. I haven't stropped the backs other than a couple of pulls to knock down any burr. I started using MDF simply because I had it (cheap is better than good, right?) Has anyone used both MDF and leather? (not at the same time, as 2 different methods) And if so, which do you prefer?

[Patrick Chase]

This interests me to some extent. My blades are usually only stropped 3 to 10 times per side. Thinking about it a bit it seems to be a matter of strop firmness, the firmness of the stroke and how the edge was when presented to the strop.

It also (and obviously) depends on the quality of the edge pre-stropping. If you have a very clean edge to start with then you don't have to do very much.

[Bob Leistner]

As I mentioned, I do have a leather strop. I wanted to try the MDF and it does the job and I am satisfied with the result. I liked the idea that it would reduce the chance of rounding over the edge and it works. Just another way to work, thats all.

[bridger berdel]

my strop for woodworking tools is a slab of hard maple, planed flat and charged with chrome oxide compound. most sharpenings I don't strop, but sometimes I do. I teach sharpening and provide the students with such a strop to take home. I feel that having a charged hard strop as an option will teach them some things about sharpening. there is definitely a point where the strop isn't improving the edge- surgical black arkansas stone is somewhere around that point.

[Todd Stock]

No stropping on chisels or plane blades - just a fine enough stone to clean off the burr and polish the edge. Knives and most carving tools (except for in cannel gouges) get stropped, as the geometry change is actually welcome.

[William Fretwell]

I have numerous strops in various shapes with and without handles. Most have very good leather charged with green compound. My square strop is for plane blades and chisels. About 15 pulls on the front but the back I just put it flat, push down and pull 2 inches just to remove the burr. The small curve created by the leather will round the edge if you strop the back.
Using MDF works but you need to vary the angle of the tool as there is no 'give' in the surface, I find leather simpler for chisels with a curve to the edge such as Barr Quarton's timber frame chisels.

I use a long 2" wide strop for hunting and fishing knives which does a wonderful job. I only strop the paring knife in the kitchen to keep my wife safe!

[Mike Holbrook]

I became interested in strops for the same reason I got interested in hollow grinding and micro bevels. These methods may speed and or simplify the sharpening process.

I have read that the notorius give in the surface of leather can actually reduce the necessity of maintaining the exact bevel angle while abrading the edge. This sort of sounded like the other side of the argument that leather strops can “dub” the edge. My thought was to lean the tool more toward the back edge of the edge bevel, smoothing the backside of the edge vs the front side. I bought a Buffalo hide strop as I understand there is less give in the surface of Buffalo hide. I believe Buffalo may also abrade a little faster than softer cow hide.

I just bought a second Buffalo hide strop, this time “Rolled Buffalo”, which may be even denser. I am researching an appropriate buffing compound to use on the new strop. I have read that it may be posible to replicate 1,000-10,000 hard ceramic stones with this strop and compounds. My interest lies in a two strop maintenance system that may rival my medium and Ultra fine Spyderco stones. I am hoping light strokes on these two strops might not require the close attention to maintaining the correct bevel that the stones do.

My thought is a couple strops might provide a more user friendly edge maintenance system for the wife, sisters, visitors, kids..... Errors on very hard stones can damage an edge. I am interested in hearing about the various: buffing compounds, diamond...particles that might work in this system. I know Patrick Chase has experience and preferences.....

[Jim Koepke]

My thought is a couple strops might provide a more user friendly edge maintenance system for the wife, sisters, visitors, kids..... Errors on very hard stones can damage an edge. I am interested in hearing about the various: buffing compounds, diamond...particles that might work in this system.

Even more interesting would be how you trained your wife, sisters, visitors and kids to the point of trusting them to sharpen things.

Especially visitors, they usually bring things for me to sharpen.

jtk

[Jerry Olexa]

Good, informative thread...Thanks for posting!!!!

[Mike Holbrook]

Jim,
I understand your point. Don’t you get tired of having to sharpen knives and tools for the whole family and their friends though? I know I do.

If we wean them, we may find we have time to actually do woodworking projects.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,
I understand your point. Don’t you get tired of having to sharpen knives and tools for the whole family and their friends though? I know I do.

If we wean them, we may find we have time to actually do woodworking projects.

Fortunately only one daughter lives close by. The rest only bring their knives when they come up for a visit.

A long time ago someone educated me on not allowing others to sharpen my knives or tools. He was bragging on his sharpening skill which turned out to be abysmal. Mine were not great at the time, but still better than what he did to my pocket knife.

Besides, when a friend comes by with a knife or two to sharpen it is a good excuse for the two of us to mosey out to the shop and have a beer and conversation.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

BTW, One of my grandsons is learning a bit about sharpening when he is here.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

Jim,
I gave the wife, son and daughter knives for Christmas. I know what was I thinking! Well I was actually thinking about keeping them away from the knives I bought me for Christmas. Then there are the two sisters, 3 nephews, 2 semi adopted sons...

[Stanley Powers]

There are a thousand ways to strop an edge and a thousand different mediums to construct a strop. I think it is important to TEST the edge before reusing (whether stropping or not). A simple way is to cut through notebook paper and observe that cut (pushing not slicing). Then you know whether you have achieved the edge you want!

[Robert Engel]

Over stropping is a caution. Also, beware the dubbing effect.

I hone to 8000 & do no more than 5 strokes.

[ken hatch]

I know folks are trying to be helpful but there should be nothing mechanical about either stone work or stropping, no set number of strokes and/or pressure, i.e. the iron should stay on the stone or strop until it "feels and looks" sharp. If it feels and looks sharp it is sharp and additional time sharpening is a waste of time and iron.

The only good test of sharpness is putting the cutter to work. Does it leave the desired surface, if it does then it is sharp....pretty simple.

BTW, strop or stone makes no never mind. They both work, it is just what blows your skirt.

ken