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Tim Bateson
09-02-2017, 9:18 PM
Not wanting to hijack someone's thread, I started a new one to continue the conversation.


TIM-- trade ya my 30 for your 50... :D

I'm curious as to why you think 50w is overkill, I've been tempted to get a 60w or higher machine, and very glad I didn't get a 20...

What lens you get with that? A 110mm at 50w would produce a very small and powerful beam spot; might be doing more cutting than engraving, or put another way, more melting than 'chewing' and vaporizing. Even a 160 lens (what I have) might be prone to melting with 50w, but I have NO problem with 30w...

You might try de-focusing a bit, to fatten the beam spot, that'll cool it down and may help with the overkill.

Another idea to try-- with my 30w my settings for deep engraving are 100 power 300 speed 30 freq. with 45/135 hatches at .03, and a 0 hatch at .04 with 800/80/80 as a 'cleanup' pass. Here's the thing, if you look at the beam overlap at 300 speed and 30 freq, it looks like this:
367158

Now, double the speed to 600 and the freq to 60, and --
367159

--the beam overlap is identical, which means the actual engraving/ablating process should be identical, but with less power density due to the increased engraving speed-- but you have nearly double the power! So, I'm thinking you should experiment with higher speed and frequency, maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised! -- or not..? I do know there IS something to this because when attempting to engrave pure copper, I found a very narrow speed/freq setting that worked, and doubling those settings, also worked. Nearly any other settings wouldn't mark the copper a bit.

speaking of focusing, how are you focusing? Red lights or-? About 2 months ago I decided to run a focus-line test, basically 6" worth of 4" long lines spaced 1mm apart, ran at zero power on anodized aluminum while moving the table up & down to find the sweet spot. When I found it, I took a piece of 1/4" thick Cintra, cut a 1/2" wide piece of it and cut it to fit perfectly between the aluminum I was engraving and the bottom edge of the lens housing. That was one of the best 'upgrades' I've done, and haven't used the red lights for focusing since. Last night for example, I engraved dutch oven lids, and with the focus stick, I could move it around and physically and visually find the 'average' focus distance between the low and high spots in the arc of the lid. With the light you have one spot to focus on and everywhere else is just a guess...

Tim Bateson
09-02-2017, 9:26 PM
I am still trying to find the right settings. You seen in another thread that I still am trying to figure out EzCad2 as well. Deep engraving is the first thing I'm working on as that was one of the driving reasons for buying it. I am still trying to develop a good set of parameters. Not much online in the way of a 50w to help. Haven't even attempted to Mark anything or use the rotary.

I got both an f160 (150mm) & an f254 (180mm) lens. So far have only used the standard f160. They give you an aluminum stick for each to set the focus. Are these dead on... again haven't yet done the testing to see if they are perfectly sized.

These are an M&P 45 slide - engraved much deeper than I had intended, but turned out good, and a test piece of aluminum - engraved deeper than my gantry style fiber could ever dream of engraving..

John Lifer
09-02-2017, 9:59 PM
Just don't use 100% power :)

When I started playing with my baby 20w, I got a piece of aluminum tread plate (had several pieces I'd saved from a project) along with a chunk of 2" x 1/8" cold rolled steel flat I had laying around and just went to town trying to see how long it took and settings. I'd bet that 50w makes REAL short work of engraving. Could blow thru an aluminum lower quickly. They are way softer than the plate, and cut quick even with the 20W Just enjoy not taking hours!

Tim Bateson
09-03-2017, 12:09 AM
The mistake I made was to use some settings I found online... later I found out they were for a 20w. I should have gotten over to the Metal Supermarket this week & picked up some different types of metals for testing. Maybe next week.

Kev Williams
09-03-2017, 12:52 AM
Appears (to me) in your skull engraving that you're indeed melting down the aluminum! Could be partly because the f160 lens you're using is actually a 115mm lens, not 150mm :)
--the lens f number is the working diameter of the lens, the mm# is the size of a square that will fit inside that diameter-- and that square represents the machines working area. You CAN engrave beyond the boundaries in many places, but the entire circular boundary isn't accessible due to the limits of the mirrors.

so anyway, assuming the lens you're using is indeed an f160, you've really got some firepower going on! If it's not much trouble to change the machine settings (I don't suppose it is but I've never done it) I'd put that 180 lens on and take 'er for a spin-- I'm betting you'll be doing more engraving and less melting and sparks-throwing! :D

Michael Henriksen
09-03-2017, 8:28 AM
Exactly how deep is the engraving in the third picture and how long did it take to do?

John Lifer
09-03-2017, 11:15 AM
I didn't see that either Kev, if it is a F160, mine is only marked up as 100x100mm, and my f210 is a 150x150. And I can tell the difference in the two on the 20W machine.

Tim Bateson
09-03-2017, 1:06 PM
Exactly how deep is the engraving in the third picture and how long did it take to do?

This is about .04 deep & took just over 10 minutes.

Tim Bateson
09-03-2017, 1:08 PM
I didn't see that either Kev, if it is a F160, mine is only marked up as 100x100mm, and my f210 is a 150x150. And I can tell the difference in the two on the 20W machine.

Are you using the F-theta lens?

Michael Henriksen
09-03-2017, 1:43 PM
This is about .04 deep & took just over 10 minutes.

That's about 1mm in my part of the World. Not bad at all. Have you tried cutting thin mild sheet steel with it?

Kev Williams
09-03-2017, 1:59 PM
I'm no lens guru, but I'm assuming that all the published numbers from different lens mfr's are rounded up or down to suit their preference based on their lenses actual grind size..

I just drew this up in Corel, these are numbers based on EXACTLY 160, 210 and 254mm dimensions...
367186

there may be some other math formula involved with lens focal numbers I don't know about, but the square in a circle is pretty close.. :)

Kev Williams
09-03-2017, 3:11 PM
since I've never really tried to engrave as deep as you did that aluminum sample, I was curious ;) --wondered what this machine would do do in twice the time with 60% of your power and using a 'colder' 150mm lens...
367192367193
This measures just under .030" deep, and took 22 minutes-- the entire logo is the size of a nickel. Hatch was .040 'fast hatch', auto rotated, did exactly 100 passes...

With my lesser power and longer lens the aluminum isn't melting down much at all-- I think if you change your lens and get your settings dialed in you should be able to match that in about 12 minutes... :)

John Lifer
09-03-2017, 8:18 PM
Yep, Tim, theta lens. I'd almost bet they are almost all the same. There seem to be two mounting systems. Mine has ring that screws on lens, then into head.

Tim Bateson
09-03-2017, 11:45 PM
I'm no lens guru, but I'm assuming that all the published numbers from different lens mfr's are rounded up or down to suit their preference based on their lenses actual grind size....

All I have to go on is what the sales guy told me. The lens themselves say "F-theta lens 1064nm f=160mm" & "F-theta lens 1064nm f=254mm".

Kev Williams
09-04-2017, 1:28 AM
Interesting-- so, what's your table's current workspace in EZcad? - top of the screen, click the wrench next to the hatch H button, then hit workspace- It can be anything the user enters, I'm just curious if it's set for 150 or 100-ish..

How long your focus stick may be a clue, mine is almost exactly 9-3/4" long- if your lens is a 150 yours should be pretty close to the same length. If you have a 100-ish lens its stick will be quite a bit shorter--

Red light test-- my table is set for 150mm, and if I draw a 150mm square and red light it onto a piece of 8x8 aluminum, measuring the red light with a regular ruler I get just over 5-7/8", and 150mm=5.9" so pretty much dead on- if I expand the box to 210mm, which is 8.27", the biggest the box will draw is just a hair over 6-9/32", roughly 6.3", or almost exactly 160mm... measure the box diagonally and it comes to 226.27mm.

A 100mm lens is going to max out a red light box at around 4.7", maybe less.

My lens is also an F-theta, 1064nm f210 ...

I'm thinking your sales guy simply misspoke on the lens numbers... :)

Tim Bateson
09-04-2017, 1:17 PM
Interesting-- so, what's your table's current workspace in EZcad? - top of the screen, click the wrench next to the hatch H button, then hit workspace- It can be anything the user enters, I'm just curious if it's set for 150 or 100-ish..
109.98 - Does this need to be changed for the different lens? What about parameter/Field Size?


How long your focus stick may be a clue, mine is almost exactly 9-3/4" long- if your lens is a 150 yours should be pretty close to the same length. If you have a 100-ish lens its stick will be quite a bit shorter--
f=160 stick=164.5mm (6.5")
f=254 stick=300mm (11.8")

Kev Williams
09-04-2017, 11:04 PM
Your 6.5" focus, the 110mm workspace, and able to blaze thru aluminum like butter means that's definitely a 110 lens! :D

>>disclaimer<<, all of the following is mostly conjecture as I've never changed a lens!

As for changing the workspace and parameter field size, even though I've never changed a lens I'm assuming yes on both accounts. Above I stated the max my machine will engrave/redlight was almost exactly 160mm.. And 160mm is what my field size is set to. At this maximum, I get 3 perfect corners but the top-left corner about 1/8" of the corner each direction is missing, so either the lens is at it's max or the mirrors have moved beyond the point the red laser even hits them. I changed the field size, up and down, and this doesn't change the max size of the square. Also-- I just now checked the HEIGHT/Y-axis of the square, which I didn't do yesterday, and it measures almost a dead-on 6-5/8, which is 167.3mm, so it seems the mirrors have a bit more 'reach' in the Y axis...

So for field size, my assumption is, the user draws or engraves as large a square as possible, then measures the shortest side, then enters the size as the field size. I'm also assuming this number should be accurate because it may be the basis for the engraving size calculations... the mirrors will move much less distance to engrave a 1" square with a 254mm lens than they will with a 110mm lens. I would plan on needing to tweak the new lens for red-light and engraving accuracy. Not sure if there's a way to save current settings for the old lens- me, I take a screenshot of all settings and save them (been doing this with Gravostyle for years)

As for table size, I think it's more a 'user' thing and not all that critical- mine came set at 150, even though it will reach to 160mm. I guess it's 'cushion' to allow for adjustments, a little boundary overage, and to avoid goofy optical issues at the lens's and/or mirror's limits. I have to wonder why yours is set at 109.98-- why not just 110, the difference is .0008"... ?

Anyway, someone who's actually changed lenses would probably be more help than me!

Tim Bateson
09-22-2017, 5:23 PM
First paying job on this beast. It is engraving to about .005 15 times faster than my 30w gantry fiber. To be honest, it's actually going deeper and much cleaner.

John Lifer
09-22-2017, 10:01 PM
Aint it fun! Did an anniversary gun this morning. Sig p226 on both sides of the slide about a thousandth or two deep I just a couple of minutes takes me more time to set up and make sure settings are right and hatches are correct than to do engraving. Kev, I've got two lenses and the vendor sent a list of settings for each. No way to save them you just have to change them. I keep my larger on most of the time. I need to do some testing to see if what I thought I saw is true, that smaller lens passes more power thru

Tim Bateson
09-22-2017, 11:14 PM
...I need to do some testing to see if what I thought I saw is true, that smaller lens passes more power thru



Correct - The closer you are to the object the more power you have to apply. You loose power the father away which equates to the larger the lens the further your focal length is away & the more poer that is being lost. The big gain is in work area. If you don'r need a huge amount of power, but could use a larger work area, go with a larger lense.

Kev Williams
09-23-2017, 1:08 AM
Kev, I've got two lenses and the vendor sent a list of settings for each. No way to save them you just have to change them.
The program doesn't save the settings, YOU do :D

-- I have notepad lists on all my computers to help me remember everything from logins to post processor settings for my 30 year old machines to the XY offset adjustments in the fiber ;) ...that's how I "save" settings, sorry for the confusion!

The only thing you should have to change when changing lenses is the Field Size in the F3 parameters, yes?

Lens focus on these machines works exactly like those on our C02 machines;
the shorter the focal length, the higher the angle of the incident beam between the lens and the focused beam spot,
the longer the focal length, the narrower the beam...
As the beam angle increases, the focused spot size decreases, and the smaller the spot, the higher the power density.
--and vice versa-- :)

the tradeoff is the same too, the smaller the focal length and spot, the shorter the usable focus distance; longer lengths, more focus range, much more forgiving...

Neville Stewart
09-29-2017, 2:20 PM
Tim, you've probably figured this out by now, but if you want a smoother floor to your engraved recess, Id tighten up the hatch, and use the "interrupted" hatch selection but Id also run a third hatch with a higher frequency at an opposing angle to smooth roughness of the other two passes.

I am still trying to find the right settings. You seen in another thread that I still am trying to figure out EzCad2 as well. Deep engraving is the first thing I'm working on as that was one of the driving reasons for buying it. I am still trying to develop a good set of parameters. Not much online in the way of a 50w to help. Haven't even attempted to Mark anything or use the rotary.

I got both an f160 (150mm) & an f254 (180mm) lens. So far have only used the standard f160. They give you an aluminum stick for each to set the focus. Are these dead on... again haven't yet done the testing to see if they are perfectly sized.

These are an M&P 45 slide - engraved much deeper than I had intended, but turned out good, and a test piece of aluminum - engraved deeper than my gantry style fiber could ever dream of engraving..

Ross San
10-10-2017, 2:13 PM
since I&#39;ve never really tried to engrave as deep as you did that aluminum sample, I was curious ;) --wondered what this machine would do do in twice the time with 60% of your power and using a &#39;colder&#39; 150mm lens... 367192367193 This measures just under .030&quot; deep, and took 22 minutes-- the entire logo is the size of a nickel. Hatch was .040 &#39;fast hatch&#39;, auto rotated, did exactly 100 passes... With my lesser power and longer lens the aluminum isn&#39;t melting down much at all-- I think if you change your lens and get your settings dialed in you should be able to match that in about 12 minutes... :)

Kev Williams - Would you minding sharing a screen shot of the different hatch settings you mentioned above? I just got a machine and have been messing with it but I don&#39;t understand what all the different hatch options are yet.

Gary Hair
10-10-2017, 4:40 PM
Kev Williams - Would you minding sharing a screen shot of the different hatch settings you mentioned above? I just got a machine and have been messing with it but I don&#39;t understand what all the different hatch options are yet.

Download the manual at this link and search for hatch - there is a good section on hatch, including a description of the different types and what makes them different. http://en.bjjcz.com/downloadsfront.do?method=picker&flag=all&id=b2ec9f0f-d1ba-499d-94d7-9ee2667b34b6&fileId=7b1c68e2-db36-4619-b0dc-f54067bcfd36

John Lifer
10-10-2017, 6:16 PM
The Tykma manual will help too. link's been posted several times.

Tim Bateson
10-11-2017, 3:02 PM
The Tykma manual will help too. link's been posted several times. ...for smaller fibers. I think it's good for maybe a 20w. Not much help for anything larger.

John Lifer
10-12-2017, 9:07 AM
Tim, my comment was more for him understanding the hatches. Not necessarily power settings. But you are quite right. 20-30watt max for the power.