Oneida 'Super Dust Deputy' vs 'Super Dust Deputy XL' for system with 6" duct

[dustin wassner]

I just finished running all the 6" duct work in my shop, and as I look at these two cyclones, the larger is rated for 3-5hp blowers, and the smaller for 1-3hp. Mine is a 2hp. I don't ever see going above 3. So, the smaller cyclone should work.

Problem is, it has a 5" inlet and a 6" outlet, whereas the XL has a 6" in and 6" out. I really don't want to constrict down to 5", but I would have to pay an additional $70 or so just to have a 6" inlet. That seems crazy.

I considered buying the smaller one and modifying it, but at the moment I am cringing at that thought.

Any suggestions?

DW

[Carl Kona]

Dustin,

Several people have been in your situation. Actually it is the CFM not HP that is the requirement for the larger SDD XL (min 850). With a 2 HP and all your pipe and filter SP you will be below the minimum. So the larger should not even be considered because it will not perform correctly (oh it may work but not efficiently). Also, with your size unit, 5" ducts would probably have been a better choice but then you would have to use metal duct. All that being said, others have used 6" duct off a 5" SDD without issue (so far). Your challenge will be to keep the velocity high enough to keep everything moving through the ducts and not drop in the duct and create clogs.

Sorry I couldn't give you a better answer. Hope that helps, let us know what you do.

Carl

[dustin wassner]

thanks, Carl. I actually used 6" and it is metal, not pvc. I only went with 6" because the research I did lead me in that direction...

[Jim Andrew]

Do not cut the 6" down to 5" at the cyclone inlet, that will slow down the cfm's and could leave a buildup of dust in your ductwork. I had a 6" system with a 2hp cyclone, and it worked ok, just works better with a 3hp blower.

[dustin wassner]

so you think I should spend the extra 70 for the 6" port? or try to modify the smaller unit?

In your system with 6" duct and a 2hp unit, were there any issues you ran into with it?

[Carl Kona]

Dustin,

Just to clarify, you are not buying a 6" port you are buying a significantly larger cyclone. The XL is ~10" taller and several inches bigger in diameter. You will be short on the minimum CFM/velocity to effectively create a cyclone in the XL (it won't separate well - i.e. clogged filters). I would not even consider the XL unless you plan to use a different blower. To increase the flow through your current DC:

1) Are you venting outside? That will help. If not 2 cartridge filters are better than one to increase airflow.
2) What kind of 2HP DC are you starting with? If it is HF it underperforms most all 1.5HP DCs due to the small 10" impeller (an impeller upgrade Rikon 12")
3) Are you planning to put the blower right on the SDD vs. running hard/flex pipe from DC

The above are ways to significantly increase your flow. Following that the options I see are :

1) Try the SDD with the 5" port and 6" ducts, as others have done and see how it works (others have tried this but, smaller different runs, off of different machines will give different results - your clogs may vary)
2) Upgrade your blower to at least a 3HP and then get the XL
3) Keep your blower, get the SDD and change your duct to 5"

Again not what you want to hear but I can't change physics.

Hope that helps. Let us know what you do.

Carl

[dustin wassner]

Carl,

this makes sense. I am not venting outside. I am using a HF collector and plan on upgrading the impeller. The blower will mount directly to the cyclone. It sounds like, I hate to say it, I need to tear down my system and return whatever 6" ducting I can to make the system 5". I will try the setup as-is first, but man, this will be really disappointing if I need to essentially re-do the system.

I know I will eventually come across a 3hp 3ph motor cheap enough that I can use, but assuming I use the rikon impeller, will increasing the motor size and using the same blower housing show any notable difference? I would guess that the blower housing itself is at its cfm limitation.

[Carl Kona]

Dustin,

Yes the impeller upgrade will make a significant difference. If you search for it a guy measured his before and after and I think it went from ~370 CFM to over 600 CFM. Now this is not very accurate as it was a handheld meter but it gives you an idea of improvement. There are many variables from one setup to another, so you may be surprised by the velocity of the machine. Everyone talks about 6" and needing X CFM to maintain material airborne but that is based on the correlating velocity of 4000-4500 FPM. If the velocity is higher the CFM increases. So the more efficient you make your system: little to no flex pipe, long radius turns, short runs (run down the middle of shop and drop to the tool, not around the walls), clean large surface area filters (200-500sq-ft), etc the less the restrictions and the higher the velocity.

Hope that helps. Let us know what you do.

Carl

[Peter Kelly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v5079FPCsY

[dustin wassner]

The guy in the video is using the XL, and my exact model collector. I wonder if he is having issues with the cyclone working properly.

[Carl Kona]

Yeah, I saw that when it first came out and wondered if Oneida knew what he was going to do with the XL when they gave it to him since it contradicts what they say about the XL. This is one of the many variables with dust collection, what kind of dust are you using. This is where a lot of subjectivity comes to play. Two people using the same system but with different tools will have different results. How they measure will differ as well. Running heavier course dust through that will probably work OK. Run finer dust from a sander our router, or MDF dust and you see performance drop. To really check you need to season the filter, then clean it, then run 20-40 gallons of dust through and then clean the filter again to see how much bypassed. Most people run a couple of gallons of mainly course dust through a clean filter and when nothing shows up in the bypass they think it works awesome.

It would be interesting to see what you find out from him months later about performance and the kind of machines he uses.

Carl

[Peter Kelly]

The guy in the video is using the XL, and my exact model collector. I wonder if he is having issues with the cyclone working properly.You can ask Brent a question on the tutorial page about the projec (http://studiograyhouse.com/harbor-freight-dust-collector-mod/)t (http://studiograyhouse.com/harbor-freight-dust-collector-mod/). He's super nice and pretty good about responding to posts.

I have the HF blower, 12" impeller and the SDD with 5" spiral pipe. The run is pretty short and mine vents outside but the performance has been good.

[Mike Chalmers]

Don't overthink it. I am running a 2hp with the original SDD. 6" to 5" reducer at inlet to SDD, 6" mains. Among other tools, 20" planer, 8" jointer, 6" X 89" edge sander, table saw etc. Chips and dust pull right through. NO build up in pipes, not even on the screws holding the pipe joints. Does it meet the "Penz" standard? No, but I would rather have some tools and "good enough" dust collection than "Penz" standard collection and no tools, as I can't afford both, and I am not allergic or have feeble lungs.

[Benjimin Young]

Hope you don’t mind me piggybacking this thread Dustin. I have a similar question but with a different configuration.


I am also adding a Super Dust Deputy to my DC system.
I have a BusyBee system with the following specs: 240volt, 3HP, 13 amp, Impeller size – 12”, Static Pressure – 18.5”, Air suction capacity – 2,300 CFM (I think this may be a little optimistic),
inlet cover 8” with a split adapter to three 4” inlets
Bag Sizes – Upper – 19” x 32”, Filters Air to 1 Micron
I have no ducting in place and use a 25 ft 4” flex on one 4” port

For now I was think of removing the three 4” split adapter from my DC then reduce the DC 8” opening to 6”, run a single 6” pipe to the dust Deputy outlet and also reduce dust deputy inlet to my 4” flex hose.

With the above scenario, would you use the Oneida AXD002030A or the XL version

[Larry Frank]

I think people are being over optimistic about there dust collectors. With that Busy Bee dust collector you will be lucky to get half of the 2300 cfm. I can not get 2300 with 5 hp and 15" impeller.

People need to be a bit more realistic about their dust collector performance and the effects of the DD.

Good luck

[Carl Kona]

Benjimin,

The numbers for single stage DCs are usually for just a blower and nothing connected so as Larry said you will not get anywhere near 2300CFM with a 12" impeller. Nor could you get anywhere near 18.5" of static pressure without a 16"+ impeller. These numbers were so wild I checked BusyBee and their 12" 3HP is rated at 1900 CFM and ~9" of static pressure with 6" inlet. Again free air CFM. Regardless the XL would be a better match if you intend on a 6" inlet pipe as this blower would have enough CFM to operate it correctly (too many people try and pick an inlet size and under power the XL).

So I am not sure what DC you have with an 8" inlet, but a 12" impeller will be your limiting factor.

Hope this helps, let us know what you do.

Carl

[David Roddis]

Hey Mike, Nice to see this from a fellow bluenoser! I also have the SDD and had been running 4" pipe. Managed to get some free 6" PVC, and have considered upgrading but was worried about having to replace my SDD. I'm trying to reduce the amount of money spent. A few years on from this post, are you still running the same setup, and if so are you still happy with the results/performance?

Thanks!

[Jim Dwight]

My guess is either cyclone will work with your system but the taller XL will separate better. I've seen other reports of shorter cyclones not separating as well. I use the shorter one, however. I discharge outside. I don't see a lot of dust on the bushes the discharge goes into but that isn't a very scientific measurement.

I did, however, notice a very small amount of dust in the 5 inch pipe coming from my table saw when I modified it for overarm collection. I don't see it as a real issue but I was surprised it wasn't empty. I suspect there would be at least as much in a system with the Rikon impeller and 6 inch pipe.

[Tom Bender]

A cyclone works by throwing the particulates to the wall where they slow down and drop out of the airstream, sliding down the wall while the rest of the air is sucked to the center and up. The velocity needed to throw the particles to the wall varies with the size and density of the particles with small and light ones being the most difficult to separate. A smaller cyclone will clean the air better but at the cost of more pressure drop. The smallest and most harmful particles will go thru a cyclone and must be captured in a HEPA filter. In your case the larger cyclone will probably work better because it will let your low powered fan move more air.

Side note, a Bindicator may be worth the cost but a hole in the top of the drum with a cork in it and a dipstick works fine.

[Jim Andrew]

My old 2hp cyclone had a 18" diameter, long cone cyclone. But it had a real blower, 14" impeller. When I replaced it with a 3hp cyclone, my suction increased significantly. Now I vent outside, and that made a huge difference. When I plane and joint lumber, there is not a grain of dust left around or on my machines, people look at my shop and don't believe I work with wood in there.