Fence upgrade time.

[Jake Grover]

I have a Delta 34-410. I think I've had it with my fence. I have adjusted it square many times but it always locks with the back rail about 1/16" out to the right no matter how many times I align it.

My guess is this is happening due to:

An out of production decaying rubber bushing in the Fence Head.
The bolts for fence alignment working their way out when pressure is applied
One of the fence rails bent
The hook on the back of the fence being worn

I'm sure that there are a million other possibilities.

I've been start shopping around for a new fence. (Can't afford it yet, but I'd like to buy in the next 3 months)
I'd like to pay less than $200, but I could stretch that to $300 for a really excellent fence. My local woodworking supplier had a lightly used Incra for $300. I wanted to buy it and he talked me out of it, which was easy because I couldn't afford it, but I regret it, because I probably won't see that fence for $300 any time soon, and I don't think I would mind trading the time it takes to lock it down for the extra precision. Oh well.

So at this point I'm considering:

1) delta‑36‑t30t3 (https://www.toolbarn.com/delta-36-t30t3.html/) - $200
2) Jet JWSS-30F - $135 (new in box on ebay)
3) Vega U26 - $289
4) Shop Fox Aluma Classic $210

If I could get away with the Jet, then I could order it soon, sell my Delta fence for parts, and stop cutting trapezoids. But if the fence would need to be upgraded some day soon, then it probably wouldn't be worth it.

Any advice? I have been scouring craigslist but haven't been seeing any good fences pop up close to me (upstate NY).

[Dave Cav]

I think I'd go with the Delta you linked to. It's a T-Square design, reasonably priced and gets pretty good reviews on Amazon.

I put a Shop Fox Classic on my Powermatic 65 when I restored it a few years ago, and it's been just fine. I did take the UHMW faces off and replace them with hardwood, but otherwise it's pretty much a direct clone of the Biesemeyer. Even the cursor is interchangeable, which is good because I really don't like the magnifier on the Shop Fox cursor.

Unfortunately, Biesemeyer fences are no longer made in the USA and their quality has suffered. An old, used Bies would be my first choice, if I could find one.

[Jake Grover]

I put a Shop Fox Classic on my Powermatic 65 when I restored it a few years ago, and it's been just fine.

There is a thread on lumberjocks saying that a lot of the fence faces on the Delta aren't flat (I bet they're flatter than my stock fence... ~~~~).
Why would you recommend the Delta if you like the Shop Fox Classic. The Shop Fox is what my local guy suggested.

Thanks!

[Ted Reischl]

I am a Unifence fan. Mine is now about 25 years old and has never given me a bit of trouble.

Maybe if you can find one you should consider it? Just saw a delta contractor saw with one on it for about $375. Not bad, spare motor, parts, fence. . . it is in Connecticut.

[Jake Grover]

Thanks Ted,

If I have to move something that big, I have to borrow a van from work. I can't drive more than 100 miles. I also have no where to store a second table saw. Enlisting help to move it, would also cost me, and time is at a real premium for me.

I know... Good... Fast... Cheap... Pick two. Good and cheap are the ones I'm going to have to go with.

I will keep browsing craigslist and checking eBay. I do want to know what to be on the lookout for and I have no experience with nice fences. I should have gotten that Incra when I had the chance.

I do have a 48" piece of 2x3 aluminum extrusion that's very straight. I was thinking about cutting it down to make a router table fence. If I knew the first thing about metal working, I could probably go the VSCT route. But their fence head is already more than $200 and I would have to fabricate rails. I've fiddled with this saw enough. Really want it to just work :).

[Ben Rivel]

What about the VSCT fence (LINK (https://vsctools.com/))? Thats the only other one I have considered swapping my SawStop PCS fence out for.

[Jamie Buxton]

One of the great things about a hardwood face on a fence is that you can flatten it. You often can remove it and run it through a jointer. Or you can handplane it in place. If you do handplane it in place, you can remove any kinks in the steel structure of the fence. So don't let a non-straight face deter you from an otherwise-attractive fence. You can fix it.

If you encounter a fence with a plastic face, or a formica face, replace it with hardwood. Me, I've never understood why a fence manufacturer would tell himself "I'm going to replace hardwood, which my customers know and love, with plastic, which has no redeeming features at all."

[Jake Grover]

What about the VSCT fence (LINK (https://vsctools.com/))? Thats the only other one I have considered swapping my SawStop PCS fence out for.

I like the looks of the VSCT a lot. I already have aluminum extrusion for it too... but the fence head is $250 for contractor saws... So right there I have already gone over budget.

If I could get the fence head and rails under $200, I would definitely buy that. Although that aluminum extrusion is a pretty sweet flat surface for clamping!


If you encounter a fence with a plastic face, or a formica face, replace it with hardwood. Me, I've never understood why a fence manufacturer would tell himself "I'm going to replace hardwood, which my customers know and love, with plastic, which has no redeeming features at all."

I'm a beginner. I have no experience with flattening stock and I don't have a jointer. There is one where I work that I could probably use. I don't even own a plane.

It's on my list, but I haven't gotten one yet.

[andy bessette]

Unifence or Beismeyer.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

If I could get away with the Jet, then I could order it soon, sell my Delta fence for parts, and stop cutting trapezoids (upstate NY).

A fence out of alignment will still make perfectly parallel cuts. Quality of that cut is another matter.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Within your budget, you could make a Biese clone. You will have a buddy / friend who has metal cutting band saw and welder, along with drill press and angle grinder. An abrasive cutoff machine can be used in place of band saw. Search forums for threads, and you tube on Biese clone builds.

[Jake Grover]

A fence out of alignment will still make perfectly parallel cuts. Quality of that cut is another matter.


So if your fence is 1" from the blade at the front and 1-1/8" at the back and varies +/- 20/1000" from front to back you will get a uniform width piece of wood?

Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I've noticed that if my fence isn't parallel to the blade then the wood won't stay against the fence once it has moved past the front of the blade. If the back isn't against the fence then the kerf seems to follow the initial angle of entry to the wood. It tries to keep the 1" distance but without the fence to support the back of the wood the line isn't perfectly straight. This seems to result in variations in the widths that I'm cutting.

[Jake Grover]

Within your budget, you could make a Biese clone. You will have a buddy / friend who has metal cutting band saw and welder, along with drill press and angle grinder. An abrasive cutoff machine can be used in place of band saw. Search forums for threads, and you tube on Biese clone builds.

So I bought this saw for $125. I bought 2 sets of PALS. I bought the woodpecker alignment jig and dial indicator, I bought a 40t diablo. I bought a cheap Melamine blade (which causes as much chip out as the diablo does... oops). I bought a dust collection hood and some hose, fittings and pipe clamps for it. I bought a featherboard and made a second one one from some oak. I've spent about $200 upgrading the thing. And I still want to put a magnetic switch on it and a router table extension or outfeed.

It took me like 5 hours to borrow a truck and enlist my dads help in disassembling it then moving it..

I've spent around 30 hours aligning the trunnions and trunnion tie rods (and realigning... shoot me)

I've spent way too much time trying to make a crosscut sled with warped plywood...

And I've probably spent 2-3 hours tapping the fence to square and measuring

at this point I just want something that does the job, that I don't have to think about too much. I should also probably make something out of wood eventually :).

Making a biesemeyer clone would be a fun project and a great way for me to learn metalworking. But I think it would take me somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 hours to find someone who could help me; learn how to explain what I need to them; and then actually get them to do the work or teach me how to do it. Minimum wage here is like $10... so if I spend 20 hours and need to buy $200 worth of materials then I should probably just buy a $400 fence.

[andy bessette]

Watch for a deal on a used Beismeyer or Unifence.

[Rick Potter]

Hypothetically, lets say a guy I know had two brand new in the box 30" Beismeyer fences complete with side tables, sitting in his shop, for over 10 years.

Just curious, what are they worth?

[Earl Rumans]

Jake, why did the guy talk you out of the Incra fence? I have the Incra on my Jet saw and I couldn't be happier with it. I wanted the Incra on my saw and I never even installed the stock Jet fence. The precision and repeatability of an Incra fence are just unbeatable. If I want a 6 inch cut, I set the fence at 6 inches and I know my piece will be exactly 6 inches, without any additional bumping and measuring. I know they are not cheap but they are well worth the price IMHO.

[Mike Cutler]

I'm also a little curious why someone would talk you out of the INCRA fence system? It's a heckuva system. I'd check back on that one if it were me, and I don't even need a fence.😉

[Bruce Wrenn]

Hypothetically, lets say a guy I know had two brand new in the box 30" Beismeyer fences complete with side tables, sitting in his shop, for over 10 years.

Just curious, what are they worth?$75, same as he paid for them at Lowes.

[Bruce Wrenn]

So I bought this saw for $125. I bought 2 sets of PALS. I bought the woodpecker alignment jig and dial indicator, I bought a 40t diablo. I bought a cheap Melamine blade (which causes as much chip out as the diablo does... oops). I bought a dust collection hood and some hose, fittings and pipe clamps for it. I bought a featherboard and made a second one one from some oak. I've spent about $200 upgrading the thing. And I still want to put a magnetic switch on it and a router table extension or outfeed.

It took me like 5 hours to borrow a truck and enlist my dads help in disassembling it then moving it..

I've spent around 30 hours aligning the trunnions and trunnion tie rods (and realigning... shoot me)

I've spent way too much time trying to make a crosscut sled with warped plywood...

And I've probably spent 2-3 hours tapping the fence to square and measuring

at this point I just want something that does the job, that I don't have to think about too much. I should also probably make something out of wood eventually :).

Making a biesemeyer clone would be a fun project and a great way for me to learn metalworking. But I think it would take me somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 hours to find someone who could help me; learn how to explain what I need to them; and then actually get them to do the work or teach me how to do it. Minimum wage here is like $10... so if I spend 20 hours and need to buy $200 worth of materials then I should probably just buy a $400 fence.IMHO, I see the word BOUGHT too many times in your post. The PALS were a great buy, but alignment tools are another story. I use a $6.99 dial indicator from HF and a couple pieces of scrap. As for melamine blade, do a double cut. Raise blade 1/8" and do a scoring cut, and then raise blade for a thru cut. Eliminate chip out. DAMHIK. Seriously look a videos on Biese clone making. Some suppliers offer cut to length steel, so you don't have to buy a 20' stick. Your existing Delta fence contains cam clamp you will need. Woodsmith / ShopNotes did a router in the left wing, which means stock is fed the same direction as saw cuts.

[Rick Potter]

Bruce,

Sheesh, you must have a memory like an elephant ;).

[Brian Lefort]

What about the VSCT fence (LINK (https://vsctools.com/))? Thats the only other one I have considered swapping my SawStop PCS fence out for.
I second the vsct fence. very versatile. best option out there, and portable to future saws.

[scott spencer]

The Delta T3 is about the best bang for the buck in the $200 price range, is appropriate for that saw, and should be a direct bolt on. Makes sense to me.

[Doug Garson]

I have the Delta T2 fence and I'm happy with it. Not sure what the difference is between the T2 and T3 they look the same.

[Dave Cav]

Why would you recommend the Delta if you like the Shop Fox Classic. The Shop Fox is what my local guy suggested.
Thanks!

The Shop Fox Classic wasn't on your short list, and the Delta is about 100 bucks cheaper.

[Jake Grover]

IMHO, I see the word BOUGHT too many times in your post. The PALS were a great buy, but alignment tools are another story. I use a $6.99 dial indicator from HF and a couple pieces of scrap. As for melamine blade, do a double cut. Raise blade 1/8" and do a scoring cut, and then raise blade for a thru cut. Eliminate chip out. DAMHIK. Seriously look a videos on Biese clone making. Some suppliers offer cut to length steel, so you don't have to buy a 20' stick. Your existing Delta fence contains cam clamp you will need. Woodsmith / ShopNotes did a router in the left wing, which means stock is fed the same direction as saw cuts.

Yes the woodpecker was a bad buy. It was there and cheaper than it is online and I was frustrated so I got it.

I have a bad habit of beating my head against a problem until I get frustrated then buying something that says it will solve the problem for me.

I'm actually getting better at tapping the fence into alignment.

i will live with the microset until something better comes along.

Just missed a deal on craigslist by a couple hours...

... a broken craftsmen with a T2 installed on it for $40!!! Only 20 min from me. Sold in about 2 seconds.

I tried the double cut method. My through cuts were cleaner. I should probably make a zero clearance insert and try again... the throat on the factory plate is like the Grand Canyon. I

[andy bessette]

By all means always use a zero clearance insert for 90* cuts.

[lee cox]

I have a Delta Unifence which had a little bow in it. I added a piece of European Baltic Birch across the fence which turned out to be very straight It works great now.

[Jake Grover]

I do not have a band saw so I am going to jigsaw one and then put it on the router table.

actually I should just use the bandsaw where I work...

[glenn bradley]

I'm also a little curious why someone would talk you out of the INCRA fence system? It's a heckuva system. I'd check back on that one if it were me, and I don't even need a fence.

The Incra system is an alternative to the more common t-square type fences and although of a top quality is not for everyone. The mounting methodology can make it impractical for some and the locking method bothers others. Like the reaction to a lot of things I think everyone would want to have (like a miter slot on your router table) different folks like different things. And of course, there is his budget that takes the Incra and solutions like the VSCT off the table.

Having run a Delta contractor saw with that type of stock fence I know of your pain in trying to get it to stay aligned. Any good quality fence will be a wonderful upgrade for you. The Delta will probably bolt right on. The Shop Fox may as well but at least would go on easily. I have run aluminum fences like the Jet with some success but, like any milled extrusion, once it's bent, its pretty much toast. Having said that I ran one for years and manged to never drop it :). I do avoid fences requiring a rear clamp or secondary locking effort.

Tablesaw fences can be very personal items and can be very polarizing during discussion. I prefer a heavy steel t-square whereas the next guy may hate that bulk and prefers a lightweight (but strong) aluminum model. Can you get to a store where you can try a few? A Rockler, a Woodcraft? Many that I have been in have fences (or at least small demo fixtures) setup where you can handles them a bit.

[Jake Grover]

The 2 step lockdown was why he cautioned me against the Incra. He said he didn't like it. I think it would have been perfect for me because I don't have a preconceived notion of what it's like to lock down a fence having very little experience with table saws. I should have just gone for it at $300.

i also love the idea of micro adjustments for getting accurate rabbets.

I was actually able to get my fence a little closer by clamping the back of it while I adjusted the alignment.

now the back seems to be hovering around 5/1000 out, which is probably acceptable. I also put a melamine face on it, but I think that the melamine bows about 10/1000 over the run of the fence so it may not have been the best idea. Maybe it will true up if I tighten the screws on the ends.

We will see.

[Jake Grover]

I will look and see if there is a woodcraft or a rockler near me. Great idea! Thanks!

EDIT: They are all about 60 miles away. That's a bit of a trip...

There is a sawstop in the woodshop at work.

Also a delta cabinet saw with a Biesemeyer on it.