Veritas micro-adjust rod in dual marking gauge

[Patrick Chase]

A while back I wondered (in Derek's thread about the new Veritas wheel gauge) whether the adjustable rod from that gauge (http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=75849&cat=1,42936) could be used in the dual marking gauge (http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=67466&cat=1,42936).

I bought a spare rod and gave it a go, and the answer is "yes, with some usability tradeoffs".

The micro-adjustable rod can be installed in either side of the dual gauge but not both at once. When installed that way it provides micro-adjustment of the mortise width, which is typically the most critical dimension in the gauge setup. It brings the following tradeoffs, however:


It's a bit shorter than the stock rods, so it does limit depth of marking. In order to minimize the impact of this I used it to replace the "inner" rod (the one with its wheel's bevel facing away from the gauge's fence) as that's typically used with less extension. I swapped cutting wheels with the existing shaft when I did so.
If you use the shaft clamp, then it has to be left on all the time as the only way to remove the clamp is to remove the adjustable shaft.
You have to be a little careful to keep the lock knob on the adjustable shaft facing away from the other shaft.

All in all it's a positive upgrade for me, but I can see why they aren't offering it. The usability isn't up to their standards. They could fix the first and third issues above by making a longer version of the adjustable rod (or a shorter non-adjustable one) so I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see that in the future.

[Hasin Haroon]

Nice Patrick, I confess I thought about this and was considering 'upgrading' my mortise gauge. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[Patrick Chase]

A picture of the converted gauge, for what it's worth:

367010

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

Can you also make picture of dual gauge with the new gauge together? Interesting to compare fence surface between the two, as dual marking gauge has really large registration surface.

Thanks for sharing!

[Derek Cohen]

Patrick, I am going to say that a mortice gauge does not require a fine adjuster if you set it as I do.

I do own the dual marking gauge, however I do not have pictures of setting it up this way. I can show you the same method using a Kinshiro ...

(1) The first step is to score the edge with the chisel ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_19759670.jpg



(2) Place the ends of the knives (or points) in the ends of the cut. This sets up the cutting width.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_m4d3a214c.jpg

Because these positions are fixed, the knives - or wheels - have a place to rest and do not require further adjusting.

(3) Now slide the head of the gauge against the work piece to set its depth. This completes setting up the mortice gauge.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_557894d4.jpg

Ditto with the Dual Marking Gauge.

No fine adjustments needed at any stage.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

Can you also make picture of dual gauge with the new gauge together? Interesting to compare fence surface between the two, as dual marking gauge has really large registration surface.

Thanks for sharing!

At work now, but... the new single gauge has almost as much fence surface as the dual. The difference in fence diameter between the two is about 2 mm, and the rods are similarly positioned within the fence.

The old one is ~3 mm smaller in diameter than the new one, but the usable fence surface is much smaller than that measurement implies because it's symmetric (i.e. the rod comes through the center of the fence). Over half of the fence is always above the work and not providing registration.

[Patrick Chase]

Patrick, I am going to say that a mortice gauge does not require a fine adjuster if you set it as I do.

I don't think that technique works with a wheel gauge, as opposed to one with points like the Japanese-style gauge (perhaps the Matsui that Stu sells?) that you demonstrated in those pictures.

In order for the points to "drop into" a transverse cut like that they have to be just that: Points. In order to do that with a wheel gauge you would need to make 2 additional cuts across the ends of the initial one, to match the orientation of the wheels.

Admittedly this point may argue more strongly in favor of Japanese-style mortise gauges than in favor of a fine adjustment on a wheel gauge.

[Derek Cohen]

Just press one wheel at a time down into the surface of the wood. If the wood is too hard, mark with a knife. This is still easier to do than set a gauge to the chisel.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

Just press one wheel at a time down into the surface of the wood. If the wood is too hard, mark with a knife. This is still easier to do than set a gauge to the chisel.


What I actually do is to make a single cut just as you did, line one wheel up with one end, and then adjust the second whee to line up with the opposite end. I think that micro-adjust *is* useful within that process.

I agree that trying to match the chisel itself is more difficult.

[Simon MacGowen]

Just press one wheel at a time down into the surface of the wood. If the wood is too hard, mark with a knife. This is still easier to do than set a gauge to the chisel.

Regards from Perth

Derek

+1

Always set the gauge to the width of the mortising chisel and always use an indentation made on the wood (by the chisel or by the gauge) to finalize or verify the setting. Sighting a gauge against the chisel or vice versa may not work for everyone.

All said and done, except for the through mortises, what matters is the tenon that will fit into the mortise.

I am not buying into fitting a micro-adjust rod into a mortise gauge. But it is an interesting sharing.

Simon

[Patrick Chase]

Following onto my own comment: I finally got hold of the dual-blade Matsui from TfJ, which is similar in design to Derek's Kinishiro in the second and third pictures of post #5 above.

It's my new favorite mortise gauge. To be brutally honest I'd recommend one of those (Japanese dual-blade) over the Veritas dual-wheel, whether with or without a micro-adjust rod. The Japanese gauges are more expensive, but the fact that they come to points, both of which lie along the same line perpendicular to the fence, means that you can easily match the chisel width by dropping those points into the ends of a cut.