Pine finish - shellac, then varnish

[Jeremy Patrick]

I've been looking for the numerous threads on folks finishing pine and have narrowed done a plan for finishing my bedframe.

The one comment I kept seeing for the initial stage is sticking with shellac. Maybe play around with garnet flakes as I do like the samples I've seen so far. Aside from the possible color change of the garnet flakes, I don't have any massive need to alter much else. Letting this age over time is just fine by me.

Given how fast shellac can dry, what is the average number of layers to apply in a day via spraying? (assuming ideal spraying conditions) overall?

One of the points mentioned about shellac though was needing to do a topcoat to achieve a semi-gloss or satin type sheen.

Have my earlex 5500 station ready to dig into this, but aside from shellac I'm not as familiar with what varnish is idea to spray for this scenario.

Could anyone offer some words of wisdom? specific topcoat product to look for? number of topcoats?

Thank you

[Rob Young]

On small and medium sized projects on reasonably warm afternoons, I've done 3 and 4 coats of shellac with an HVLP. I generally work out on the driveway and so have to wait for the sun to swing over to the other side of the house so I'm working in open shade. A splash of turpentine gets added to the pot on days hotter than 80F to slow the dry time a smidge.

I like garnet flakes for the color it imparts to just about everything. I keep super-blonde, amber (orange) and garnet on hand in dewaxed flakes. Probably cheaper to buy SealCoat in gallons if all you need is to use it as a sealer between color coats and topcoats like poly, etc. though. Any color of dewaxed shellac over top of pine is a good idea for sealing in the pitch. Even before painting.

You can get nearly any sheen you want with shellac by working it over with various grits of steel wool, fine sandpaper, non-woven abrasive, felt-block+loose grit (rhottenstone, etc). Chance are you will need to at least rub down lightly to remove nibs and any bounce-back roughness anyway.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Thanks for the info.
The weather here in mid WI is hanging around the high 70's for midday. Certainly not our normal but nobody is complaining on a mild summer!

I do see that Woodcraft carries garnet flakes, but is there another store you would recommend checking out that might have better pricing?

Although you mention being able to work the shellac via steel wool for a sheen, do you still recommend a final topcoat? The one point I kept running across when reading posts on shellac was it isn't terribly durable.

[Doug Garson]

Try Lee Valley, I think they have better prices.

[Jim Morgan]

The shellac harvest has had several poor years, so prices have been up. Check out Tools for Working Wood.

[Rob Young]

The shellac harvest has had several poor years, so prices have been up. Check out Tools for Working Wood.


TFWW is one of the most expensive sources of flakes around. Last large purchase I made was about 4 months ago from WellerMart (dot com). Quick check, super blonde is $27/lb vs about $46/lb for TFWW. Order more than $30 or $40 from WellerMart and you can get free ground shipping.

[Jim Becker]

Spraying varnish is a thankless task...the overspray is major sticky since varnish dries so slowly. The best finishes to spray are evaporative finishes, like shellac and lacquer (the latter only if you have proper environment) and water borne finishes.

Your general plan is good...shellac to provide additional color, etc., followed by varnish for additional protection. If you choose to use varnish, if it contains polyurethane, you'll want to be sure to use de-waxed shellac for your first steps. That holds true if you opt for a water borne finish, too.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Thanks Jim,
I did come across the point about making sure shellac and any additives were de-waxed. Garnet flakes are in the de-waxed category though right?

Would you have a specific varnish I should aim to try?

[Jim Morgan]

TFWW is one of the most expensive sources of flakes around. Last large purchase I made was about 4 months ago from WellerMart (dot com). Quick check, super blonde is $27/lb vs about $46/lb for TFWW. Order more than $30 or $40 from WellerMart and you can get free ground shipping.

Prices at Tools for Working Wood are a bit less than those at Lee Valley, Woodcraft, or Homestead Finishing. But you are right - the sale prices at Weller Mart are outstanding!

[glenn bradley]

Garnet flakes are in the de-waxed category though right?

This is not automatic. There are dewaxed garnet flakes but, they will clearly state that they are dewaxed.

[Jim Becker]

T
Would you have a specific varnish I should aim to try?
It's difficult for me to make a studied recommendation because I honestly haven't use an oil based varnish in many years. That said, Pratt and Lambert #38 and Waterlox are favorites of many folks who do use an oil based varnish. Both can be wiped or brushed and are quality products.

[Jeremy Patrick]

If I were to stay away from oil based items, what would be your suggestion for a water based final topcoat for additional protection?

[Jeremy Patrick]

when I looked on LV, their price was only 49 cents cheaper than woodcraft.

[Jeremy Patrick]

or should I just stick with shellac and not worry about a final topcoat?
I'm green enough on this that I'm simply looking for a direction you folks with far more experience can advise works. From there I'll branch out and try other things to gain my live and learn experience.

[Jim Becker]

Personally, I use Target Coatings EM6000 most of the time, but there are quite a few great water borne clear finishes available from pretty much all of the "names", such as General Finishes. The benefit to these finishes is that they are low- or no-VOC and can be sprayed with simple safety gear, are designed for spraying, dry quickly for re-coating and offer a variety of features that can be desirable. The finish I generally use, for example, "burns in" chemically to previous coats in a way similar to solvent based lacquer which means you end up with "one layer" of finish once you're done.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Fountain of knowledge you are Jim! Thanks
I have heard nothing but good comments on TC products, although there are no local shops anywhere close to me so having it shipped would be my only option.
just under $40 to get a 32oz unit shipped, although I'm unsure how far that will go with spraying. Other option is seeing what the local woodcraft shop has for GF products, but I'd prefer to stick with what you know for this time around.
Only tackling the exposed areas, so headboard, footboard, drawer faceframe and drawer fronts.

[Jim Becker]

The shipping is the downside for me for the Target products I like simply because I don't use all that much in a given period of time...at least over the past x number of years. That might change given I'm retiring soon and my have more time for projects. :) I can actually drive to their warehouse/site in about an hour, but for that to pay off vs shipping, I still need to buy more than I can use in an acceptable time period.

[Lee Schierer]

Years ago, I made two table lamps and a floor lamp from pine that I stained and then finished with Deft Brushing Lacquer. They lasted for many years before they went to a garage sale.....and they may still be working.

I also put up pine wainscoting in our family room and finished it with oil based polyurethane finish. It sealed the wood and has held up for over 25 years. The wood aged to a golden color upon application that deepened some over the years.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Just ordered a gallon of the 6000. Aside from the current project I have on hand, I have quite a bit of baseboard and window trim I need to crank out. Figured while I'm spraying, might as well tackle a few things at once.

[Jim Becker]

Just be aware for future projects that the EM6000 doesn't really impart any color to the workpiece, so you'll want to deal with that before top coating. For your current project, the shellac will do that for you, for example. EM6000 on bare wood isn't always a look you'll like... ;)

[Jeremy Patrick]

understood. I have a few different types of shellac flakes inbound so my interest for other pieces wouldn't just be straight 6000.

[Jeremy Patrick]

what would you say is a definite no to what 6000 should not be sprayed over, in terms of different undercoats?

[Jim Becker]

what would you say is a definite no to what 6000 should not be sprayed over, in terms of different undercoats?
Shellac should be de-waxed. If the workpiece is oiled (my standard first step in most cases) or has an older finish on something, a barrier coat of de-waxed shellac is what I do.

[Jeremy Patrick]

got it.
A good starting point for me. I'm sure I'll learn my lessons and experiment at a later point to get my own feel for things.

[Jeremy Patrick]

What is the lower end temp that can be worked with for the EM6000?
My weather up here in mid-WI looks to be holding steady in the mid 60's. Quite odd for this time of year but not much I can do about it. Have come across postings about people being able to spray shellac down to about 60 or so and still be ok. Wasn't sure about the EM6000 though.

Thanks

[Jim Becker]

Without looking it up, most water borne finishes require 68º+ at the bottom end for best results. While the actual finish is coalescing, the water carrier still needs to evaporate. I've gotten away with about 65º in the winter, but that was taking a chance. Shellac is much more forgiving at lower temps because that alcohol still flashes off pretty quickly.

[Jeremy Patrick]

well rats, guess I'll have to put off spraying the topcoat for a while. Looks like next week the temps will be in the low 70s. The whole summer has been a day to day forecast though, so I'll have to see how the actual temp is around lunch and make the decision from there.