How far is too far - restoring angle on a plane iron

[Jeremy Patrick]

Wanted to ask people's opinion on this:
Picked up a great deal on a Bailey 4 1/2 hand plane on ebay. Overall the item was in excellent condition, only thing that seemed to be needed was to put the iron in a sharpening jig and get it up to par.
Well, that is ending up to be a bit more work than I thought. Obviously up in the air as to what the original owner's intent was, but when looking closely at the iron against a combination square, the iron has a taper downward from left to right. Enough that I am needing to take off about 1/8" of metal to get the blade squared for install back in the plane.
Obviously there is quite a bit of length to the plane iron, but I was curious what is considered the limit most people put on how much length is taken overall before needing to replace an iron.

Thanks

[Bill Houghton]

I've got an iron in a plane I purchased with maybe 3/8" of an inch left between edge and the slot for the chipbreaker screw. Use them up!

[Jeremy Patrick]

Roger that!

[glenn bradley]

+1. Burn it up, then choose a replacement of whatever your preferred type is.

[Jim Koepke]

You may want to check the blade as is before changing it. If there is some misalignment in the frog or plane body it may need a slight skew to the blade to cut evenly from side to side.

jtk

[David Eisenhauer]

Use it as long as all appears to be OK with the general alignment of the plane, frog and slot in the sole. This is a good place to use a bench grinder to get the end of the whole blade square to the world rather than doing it all by hand. 1/8" is a lot to remove, even with 80# paper.

[Pete Taran]

High Speed Grinders exist for a reason. Adjust the rest to be within an 1/8' of the wheel and get the angle correct, and have at it. Light passes with a dunk in a cup of water after each pass will keep the temper where it needs to be. You can use some dykem on the back to give you something to shoot for, or just a little Mr Sharpy action. Anyone that would wail away at that much steel with sandpaper probably has way too much time on their hands. :) 10 minute job tops with a well dressed stone.

[Trevor Goodwin]

If you don't have grinder, a handheld belt sander clamped upside down will work too.

[Jeremy Patrick]

I have a makita sharpening system I use for HSS planer blades. Well I should say used to. Damn planer bound up. The sound of a motor screeching isn't usually the best indicator of longevity...
Anyway the sharpening system has a nice cast iron slide for putting a dead on angle at 1000 grit. Might give that a try. Will certainly help for starting with a decent edge when moving up the grit levels.

[Patrick Chase]

Wanted to ask people's opinion on this:
Picked up a great deal on a Bailey 4 1/2 hand plane on ebay. Overall the item was in excellent condition, only thing that seemed to be needed was to put the iron in a sharpening jig and get it up to par.
Well, that is ending up to be a bit more work than I thought. Obviously up in the air as to what the original owner's intent was, but when looking closely at the iron against a combination square, the iron has a taper downward from left to right. Enough that I am needing to take off about 1/8" of metal to get the blade squared for install back in the plane.
Obviously there is quite a bit of length to the plane iron, but I was curious what is considered the limit most people put on how much length is taken overall before needing to replace an iron.

Thanks

That iron should have >1" of usable hardened metal, so chopping off 1/8" isn't the end of the world. I've had to do that to correct dubbing in the past.

With that said this isn't a flush-cutting plane, so the leading edge angle isn't critical so long as the lateral adjuster has enough range to bring the blade into alignment. If the blade is otherwise OK I'd grind as little as possible for now and gradually "work it back" towards straight over future sharpenings.

[Patrick Chase]

High Speed Grinders exist for a reason. Adjust the rest to be within an 1/8' of the wheel and get the angle correct, and have at it. Light passes with a dunk in a cup of water after each pass will keep the temper where it needs to be. You can use some dykem on the back to give you something to shoot for, or just a little Mr Sharpy action. Anyone that would wail away at that much steel with sandpaper probably has way too much time on their hands. :) 10 minute job tops with a well dressed stone.

Indeed. There is no substitute for a good old fashioned bench grinder or belt sander for this sort of thing.

To the OP: There are many ways to do this. FWIW when I make gross adjustments like this I:



Paint the blade back with Dykem as Pete says, and scribe a target line with a machinists' square and a sharp scratch awl.
Set the tool rest at right angles to the wheel (90 degree bevel) and grind back to the line from (1). This takes very little time, and reduces the potential for burning later.
Set the tool rest to the desired bevel angle and grind the bevel until I draw a wire on the back of the edge from step 2. I work quickly at first, gradually slowing down and dunking more often as I approach a sharp edge.


The reason for step 2 is that sharp corners are more prone to burning than blunt ones, because there's less steel behind a sharp edge and the heat of grinding is therefore concentrated in a smaller mass. By grinding a 90 deg face on the end of the blade I ensure that I'm working a blunt edge right up until the very end of step 3. That in turn allows me to initially work faster, using my fingers on the back of the iron to monitor temperature (while the edge is blunt I don't have to worry as much about local heating).

[don wilwol]

If it works, just straighten it a little each sharpening.

[Jim Navarro Jr]

Did you check from both sides of the blade? Sometimes the sides are not parallel. Then check frog alignment as others suggest. And finally grind as appropriate. Bailey's have a fair bit of lateral adjustment so it doesn't actually have to be dead square -- just get it close. But 1/8" is quite a bit off.

[steven c newman]

Keep in mind, that you still need enough room for the chipbreaker to register to. Hopefully not across the slot. Once it gets to the slot....split the iron and use as irons for molding planes.

[bridger berdel]

Keep in mind, that you still need enough room for the chipbreaker to register to. Hopefully not across the slot. Once it gets to the slot....split the iron and use as irons for molding planes.

Unless it's a pretty modern iron the chances are above the slot isn't hardened.

[steven c newman]

Should be easy to grind the profile you want, and then harden it back up....

[Patrick Chase]

Should be easy to grind the profile you want, and then harden it back up....

That won't do you much good if it's a laminated blade such as Stanley made pre-WWII.

Also good luck doing that if you don't know what alloy you're dealing with. If you're going to go to that amount of work then IMO it's worth it to invest in quality O1 stock. At least that way you know what to quench with and what temperature to aim for when tempering.

[steven c newman]

IF a plane iron has been used/abused THAT much....it is well beyond any laminations....iron that old are simply high Carbon steel.

BTW: most of the irons in the shop right now pre-date WW2, other than Millers Falls......not a one is laminated.....may have meant pre-WW 1?

[Jeremy Patrick]

I have both the 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 together and working. They seem to be functioning ok, but it does seem like the side to side adjustment is off. Installing the iron and chipbreacker in what seems like center position to me appears to be not quite right when trying to use it. Feels like I have to over adjust, but this may be my green status in hand planning and not having the experience to say what is normal or not.

another thing I noticed with my 4 1/2 though is the iron assembly sits more to the right instead centered in the slot.

Any ideas why that would happen?

[Patrick Chase]

IF a plane iron has been used/abused THAT much....it is well beyond any laminations....iron that old are simply high Carbon steel.

BTW: most of the irons in the shop right now pre-date WW2, other than Millers Falls......not a one is laminated.....may have meant pre-WW 1?

In a private communication to Paul Sellars Patrick Leach says (https://paulsellers.com/2015/05/laminated-stanley-plane-irons-n-more/) Stanley stopped making laminated irons c. 1930. That is "pre-WWII" though admittedly I could have been more exact :-)

[Jim Koepke]

I have both the 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 together and working. They seem to be functioning ok, but it does seem like the side to side adjustment is off. Installing the iron and chipbreacker in what seems like center position to me appears to be not quite right when trying to use it. Feels like I have to over adjust, but this may be my green status in hand planning and not having the experience to say what is normal or not.

another thing I noticed with my 4 1/2 though is the iron assembly sits more to the right instead centered in the slot.

Any ideas why that would happen?

Hard to visualize without pictures. Do you have a digital camera so you can post some images?

jtk

[steven c newman]

Slot is too wide.