Resaw King Warranty

[marty fretheim]

Hi All, I am a hobby woodworker from Colorado. I am having an issue with Laguna Tools warranty on their Resaw King blades I wanted to share and see what experience others have had.

I purchased two blades 18 months ago. Buy one get the second half price. The first blade lasted until two weeks ago which is a testament on how good they are. It finally got dull and I pulled out the other one and installed it. It broke within a week. About 15 inches from the weld. Laguna says I'm out of luck because they only warranty them for 6 months.

I was using it on a Felder FB610. It was set up and tensioned properly. I was ripping a 3" piece of white oak. I had cut a lot of the same material in the same way with the exact same set up with the first blade.

I guess my issue is how come they won't replace a defective blade? I understand warranties have to be for a certain time frame, but what is a customer to do when you buy a spare blade and don't know its defective until you finally get around to using it?

I'm mostly just venting here, but wanted others to be aware of this situation before they make the same mistake. I'd like to here from others if they have any similar experience. And, I don't want to start a Laguna bashing session either.

Thanks, Marty

[marty fretheim]

Thought I'd do a follow up on this and give Laguna credit where credit is due.

Finally got around to sending both blades back for resharpening. Explained one blade was broken and asked for a re-weld if possible. They said they would examine it and fix it if they could. Just heard from them that the other blade is "cracked through out" and can't be repaired. They offered me a new blade at 25% discount. I'm taking them up on the offer.

Before I bought the Laguna blades, I was running a 1 1/4" Lennox Trimaster. I found that to get the best cut I had to tension it way up. When I started using the Laguna blades I just tensioned them the same. The Laguna blades are a thinner kerf and don't need as much tension. I'm thinking the blade breaking was my fault, and wanted to amend my previous statement that the blade was defective and I had "tensioned it properly". Laguna's taken a lot of hits for poor customer service, but this time they've come through in my opinion. Just thought I'd share that.

Marty

[David Kumm]

The FB can not overtension either blade so that is not an issue. The 1.25" trimaster is way too much blade for that saw so the RK is the better choice. Dave

[marty fretheim]

David, your right that the Trimaster is in the upper limits for this saw, but it cuts beautifully. Probably should have went with 1" or maybe 3/4". My mistake, but too expensive to toss when it cuts good. The RK that broke was 1". I don't think that it was too much for this saw but I'm not sure. If not over tensioning, what would cause that blade to crack and break? Please don't tell me I was right all along and it was a defective blade lol. It's a 24" bandsaw and I "usually" de-tension when not in use. The wheels aren't crowned so I run the blades with the carbide just forward of the rubber per Felder. I have the ceramic guides that I run pretty loose (but not too loose) simply because there's no drift and I could probably remove them altogether. That's why I assumed over tension was the cause.

Resaw blades are expensive. That's why I'm posting this and open minded to advice.

Marty

[David Kumm]

I run my Trimaster at 30,000 which is more than a FB610 can run. The RK problem sounds more like a sharpening or carbide brazing problem. The gullet point is the weak spot although relying on the back bearing to keep the blade in place can cause heat and weaken the band as well. I tension so the back bearing seldom spins unless pushing too hard into the cut. If it isn't heat caused by the bearing spinning, ( and if new it isn't ) it is a defective blade. Dave

[marty fretheim]

David, if you don't mind continuing this, how do you determine actual blade tension. I gotta admit I rely on the the needle pointer and and gut feel by quality of cut. I've read about various ways of doing so but not sure what actually is best. Plus finding recommended blade tensions from the manufacturers is elusive.

Marty

[Ben Rivel]

David, if you don't mind continuing this, how do you determine actual blade tension. I gotta admit I rely on the the needle pointer and and gut feel by quality of cut. I've read about various ways of doing so but not sure what actually is best. Plus finding recommended blade tensions from the manufacturers is elusive.

Marty
Get a bandsaw blade tension gauge. Lenox and Starrett make the most popular.

[John TenEyck]

You did better than I did Marty with a Lennox Woodmaster CT that I bought from Spectrum Supply. It broke at the weld after about 18 months of hobby use. When it broke it wiped out a lot of teeth. I sent it back to Spectrum and they found "no structural defects". The weld was clearly poor; easy to see on the broken surfaces. They didn't respond to my question about why it broke at the weld and offered me nothing.

To answer your question on how to measure blade tension it's pretty simple. All you need is a pair of 6" Vernier calipers and two little C-clamps.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vz4Lz9wXCCt_mRPDMyTTEMA6M_udbgwEFIDDFKBYrmqjU3RqPd nKSvtcz2EtScnZVhdQoghziWtVGD8tUU546rGr-X0E1HEPJgaufrCHUnRdxvTYs3uK3No9mwndJnJTslf7ZIfi4wk 4LR7nEvEkCJ2Ov3oIrVQQi7TGiIzuHsAFcE5FO8culToI9b0jY X7KmAWE_-lJ9dclrXTT6AAok2hiUYrfS4MeeKiKUcz_ffo1CuXukFqedTxs YlaXLAJih1Q0-KBHgCC28iT3n0gTDUlPa0sml82MINnphpReKlA_jRByUOsI8qU vIRI6sJJSp0En01LRD-C8EZjdPVUSCs3q12NSxmsmxjV4V6WfVX_yBczF7xaIq99mcS_r 2fTKjwNcoy32Myf-aMeZK4u87Z7wc9MvLsq0TtprWnr99HSB7KI74VrVGICfk48-crT_TiOoKYLjZgWjRZz7tf-Y_ABgc5im1lTIT7IwJZCTKbFiU3O2NieV8CwHVBTCao-DWEbdMMgvthtJfK_agC4v76nbv3InfkmA03HVdPGCxcbcYsfdX ymIeo2_pkGzxxPMCUdRBZK4R24yPWsKlVjPHBxyr1x3lUr4rBN k1sIzxbmf3DUvBP8QahsGFbuWLGt-0NjFvaB9vOeC2quB4o2-z0RMy6tzblvbFg=w470-h626-no

Open the Verniers up to around 5" and clamp it to the flats of the blade with zero/minimum tension on the blade. Note the exact reading on the calipers and then reset it to zero. Now crank the tension up. The tension in the blade is easily calculated from

Young's Modulus = Stress / Strain.

You want to know the Stress (tension) so:

Stress = Young's Mod x Strain

Young's Modulus for steel is around 30 X 10^6 psi. Strain is the Vernier readings / the gap before you re-zeroed them. Blade size is irrelevant. So let's say you put your normal tension on the blade and the Verniers now read 0.005". If the initial reading on the verniers was 5.0", then

Stress = 30x10^6 x 0.005/5.0 = 30,000 psi

The little Delta 14" cast iron saw shown in the photo can't apply more than about 12,000 psi without groaning. My 17" Grizzly can easily put 25,000 psi on a 1" x 0.035" blade. Anyway, this is quick and easy to do and can be used to create tension curves for any blade of interest.

John

[marty fretheim]

Wow John, thanks for that. Does this symbol (^) mean to the sixth power? No Einstein here but can do math.

Your comment on your Grizzly doing 25 K makes me think my saw should be adequate for my blades but without testing it, who knows? Never really cared until the broken blade. It's just a bandsaw and no sense overthinking it but it would have been nice to give the Laguna rep an accurate tension I was running when the blade broke. Oh well, got a new blade coming.

Thanks again, Marty

[Ed Pollock]

Marty,

I am in the early stages of my 1" RK blade and my impressions are mixed. I do not have any warranty experience but I nearly sent mine back when I opened the box and found the blade, through nearly its entire length, to be rusty.

whether it was a good or bad choice I do not know but I installed the blade anyway and it cuts like a dream. Virtually no drift with a 5 minute setup (laguna 18BX) and the cuts are extremely smooth and even. Widest board I have resawn was about 12 inches or so and the cut was slow but very very smooth, one light pass through the planer was enough to even out the surface (drum sander wouldve handled it equally as well).

Time will tell, but I hope this thing lasts a long time. I do not use it a lot, so I was hoping this could last me many many years.

[John TenEyck]

Wow John, thanks for that. Does this symbol (^) mean to the sixth power? No Einstein here but can do math.

Your comment on your Grizzly doing 25 K makes me think my saw should be adequate for my blades but without testing it, who knows? Never really cared until the broken blade. It's just a bandsaw and no sense overthinking it but it would have been nice to give the Laguna rep an accurate tension I was running when the blade broke. Oh well, got a new blade coming.

Thanks again, Marty

You're welcome; happy to help. There's no need to spend money on a fancy tension meter when the simple thing I showed works just as well and only takes a minute to set up.
Yes, ^ means to the 6th power, so 30,000,000.

I'm not sure how to interpret your comment that if my Grizzly can apply 25K psi your Felder should be able to as well. Almost sounds like you think Felder must be superior to Grizzly because it's a Euro saw or something. Grizzly makes a whole range of BS's. The G0636X that I have is a 17" saw that is over engineered in most every regard and designed for someone who wants to resaw thick stock. It fits my needs perfectly for slicing shop sawn veneer.

Good luck with the new blade. Check/adjust the tension when you install it and then you'll be able to talk to Laguna with data if you have a problem with it.

John

[Andrew Hughes]

Ive never measured blade tension and just use the scale. I did tension a WoodMaster blade way up high to see if it would cut better. I didn't really see any difference.
If someone has a bandsaw tension gauge to lone out to me. I would pay for shipping and send it back in a fine Handsawn dovetail box.:)
Until then I consider blade tension some kind of sorcery :cool:

My Resaw bandsaw is a Aggazani B 20/20.

[Dave Cav]

I had a Grizzly G0513X2 and initially bought a Laguna RK back when they were offering the SMC discount a number of years ago. Roughly a year or so after I got the blade, and with light hobby use, it broke and in the process kinked in several places. I seem to recall I wasn't the only one this happened to and shortly after that Laguna changed their band stock to a different steel. Anyway, I replaced it with a Woodmaster CT and never looked back, and when I upgraded to my Minimax 20" I put another WM- CT on it. The cut is somewhat rough but acceptable for what I do. When this one wears out I might consider a TriMaster or possibly the Timberwolf carbide, but for the time being I'm happy with the Woodmaster CT.

[John TenEyck]

FWIW, I had a Woodmaster CT break at the weld recently after only light use, so it can happen. Trashed the blade in the process. Anyway, I'm surprised you said the cut from the Woodmaster CT is somewhat rough. It might not be quite as smooth as what you would get from a RK, but mine was really, really smooth, smooth enough that a couple of passes through the drum sander was all that was needed to have a uniform, smooth surface.

I'm using a Woodmaster C blade right now and I started the saw w/o putting tension on it. Of course the blade jumped off the wheels and I figured it was trashed. To my surprise I could find no damage to it, so I put it back on and recentered it, etc. To my even greater surprise it cuts smoother than it did before. I concluded that it's because I now have the blade centered even better on the wheels. The blade cut straight before but if you think about it, if the blade is cocked at all, like with a TS blade not parallel with the miter slots, it's not going to cut as smoothly as when it's perfectly parallel with the miter slot and fence. Maybe that is why you are getting a "somewhat rough" cut with your Woodmaster CT. Just a thought. FWIW, I loved that blade - until it broke.

John

[David Kumm]

The difference between a great and mediocre cut can be just one or two teeth with a slightly different set, and the company that stands by their welds is more important than the company with the best price. Dave

[marty fretheim]

You're welcome; happy to help. There's no need to spend money on a fancy tension meter when the simple thing I showed works just as well and only takes a minute to set up.
Yes, ^ means to the 6th power, so 30,000,000.

I'm not sure how to interpret your comment that if my Grizzly can apply 25K psi your Felder should be able to as well. Almost sounds like you think Felder must be superior to Grizzly because it's a Euro saw or something. Grizzly makes a whole range of BS's. The G0636X that I have is a 17" saw that is over engineered in most every regard and designed for someone who wants to resaw thick stock. It fits my needs perfectly for slicing shop sawn veneer.

Good luck with the new blade. Check/adjust the tension when you install it and then you'll be able to talk to Laguna with data if you have a problem with it.

John

No Grizzly bashing here. Just a guy hoping his 24" saw will out tension a 17" saw. No offense intended.

Marty

[John TenEyck]

No Grizzly bashing here. Just a guy hoping his 24" saw will out tension a 17" saw. No offense intended.

Marty

I didn't take it that way, Marty. It just sounded sort of strange. FWIW, I don't think size has anything to do with how well a saw can tension a blade. Many larger saws are targeted to industrial users where higher tension is needed to cut at the rates they need. But that's not a universal truth, nor are all large saws designed for industrial use, just as not all smaller saws are designed for hobby use.

I just went down and checked the tension on the 1" x 0.035" Woodmaster C on my saw, using the Vernier + C-clamps I showed earlier. 0.005" at 5.625" gage length which is 26,700 psi. That's at the 1" mark on the tension gage on the saw. This saw is rated to run a 1-3/8" blade, meaning I can easily put more than 30K psi on this 1" blade.

Ok, I've thrown down the gauntlet. Go measure yours. And may the beefiest BS win.

John

[David Kumm]

A few years ago some guys on the Felder Group tested and received info regarding tensioning on the FB 610,710, and ACM 640 and 740. My understanding ( I don't own any of those saws ) is that the FB 710 was the only saw that would tension a 1" Trimaster to 25K. The ACM 740 posted numbers said it was close but there was no confirmation. The FB 610 tested out at 20K. The ACM saws that Felder sells are Italian, the FB source is less clear but that should not be a factor. A strong frame can be sourced anywhere. A Trimaster can give a great cut at tensions less than 25K although the cut speed will be slower. My experience with my old Oliver is that a Trimaster cuts well at 20K but even better at 25-30K but there is no real difference after that. In fairness, the cut quality at that level is compromised more by hand feeding than blade at that level. Dave

[mreza Salav]

Marty, you can use a caliper or a dial to measure the tension.
Here is my thread on that on a Griggio 600 saw: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?248266-measuring-bandsaw-blade-tension&highlight=

[John TenEyck]

A few years ago some guys on the Felder Group tested and received info regarding tensioning on the FB 610,710, and ACM 640 and 740. My understanding ( I don't own any of those saws ) is that the FB 710 was the only saw that would tension a 1" Trimaster to 25K. The ACM 740 posted numbers said it was close but there was no confirmation. The FB 610 tested out at 20K. The ACM saws that Felder sells are Italian, the FB source is less clear but that should not be a factor. A strong frame can be sourced anywhere. A Trimaster can give a great cut at tensions less than 25K although the cut speed will be slower. My experience with my old Oliver is that a Trimaster cuts well at 20K but even better at 25-30K but there is no real difference after that. In fairness, the cut quality at that level is compromised more by hand feeding than blade at that level. Dave

This goes along with what I mentioned about larger saws. If fact, the larger the diameter of the wheels the more robust the frame has to be for any given tension level compared to a saw with smaller wheels; simple beam theory.

Consistency of feed rate definitely effects cut quality. Hand feeding works well if you can maintain a consistent rate, and use a spring loaded feather board like J. Lanciani originally developed. That made a big improvement in the consistency of my veneer slices.

John

[marty fretheim]

So I used Johns caliper technique and took an average of three tries. Max tension is 21K with the 1 1/4" Trimaster. Looks like David's numbers were pretty accurate. And that's with the spring almost completely compressed which I would not run it at in normal use.

John, thanks for helping me out with that. Now I will have some facts instead of assumptions going forward. I mean my saw cost more and came from Austria (sorta) so it must be better, right:)? After your replies I actually looked into the specs on that griz. Looks like they designed it from the ground up for resawing. Pretty impressed.

I'd been considering another bandsaw for non-resaw work and leaving the resaw blade on the Felder. I get better deals on rough sawn 8/4 from my supplier so needed to resaw. Mostly 5-8" boards so don't need a lot of resaw height. With the cost of blades and how fast they go dull, and the cost and hassell of sharpening I may rethink the 8/4. I'm also (now) rethinking the Felder as the resaw bandsaw. It's got a big table and throat and ceramic guides. It'll run a 1/4" blade. Next time Grizzly has a good sale I'll definitely give it some thought as a dedicated resaw machine.

You win the BS smackdown! If you ever come to Denver the beers on me.

Cheers, Marty

[John TenEyck]

Hey Marty, I'm expecting my check from Grizzly to be forthcoming shortly! No kidding, the G0636X is an impressive set of specs for the money. If you need a good resaw BS I don't think you would be disappointed with it.

Anyway, I'm glad you took the initiative to go measure the tension in your blade. Now you know what your machine is capable of and have another piece of information to help you decide what blades to use on it.

And I do travel through Denver a couple of times a year to go skiing. If you are a skier maybe we can meet up sometime. An offer of free beer is a powerful motivator.

Cheers,

John

[marty fretheim]

385257

I hate losing so I bought a new saw.

Just Kidding. But it is for sale locally, Its a 36" Oliver. I have no idea how much tension these will run, but gotta admit if i had 3 phase and room in my shop it'd be fun to own.

Marty