Articulated Hollowing Systems

[Damon McLaughlin]

I started reading last year about all sorts of hollowing systems and the one that just kept getting my attention was the Monster Hollowing System. I liked that it appeared to be very stout and that even though it attached to the bed of the lathe one could to some degree use it on a lathe with the headstock rotated (my lathe has a rotating headstock). But its an expensive system so every month I set aside a little bit of money so that one day I can get it. I was just trying to get back to Monster's web site and it no longer exists. I tried their phone number and its disconnected, I had a few questions I wanted to ask. So with them appearing to be out of business what other options are there for a similar system? I think I would prefer an articulating system similar to the Monster but I'm not opposed to a captive system such as what D-Way and Lyle Jamieson have. Just wondering what some good alternatives to the Monster would be, first hand experience feedback is always greatly appreciated.

[William C Rogers]

I too was looking at the Monster system. I was able to demo the Monster thanks to John Keeton. However in the end I decided on the Simon Hope system from U.K. I haven't used it much since I got it, but like it so far. Very well built. I have the camera system and like it. It is similar priced to the Monster. It comes with 3/4" bars, straight and curved. It also comes with one Hunter style carbide cutter and one disk scrapper. I also got what he calls the "old" style 5/8" bar with straight and curved inserts, both with Hunter style carbide cutters. It has a extra short arm when compared to the Monster and you can offset the system. Price wise it was about the same as the Monster even with shipping from U.K. One of the many advices I received was to get a 1" boring bar. Hope doesn't offer that, so eventually I will get one from Jamison. The other system I liked was the Trent Bosch system, but that was more costly.
i received the system in abou a week after ordering.

I was playing around to see how thin I could go unsung the system and I got this piece down to 0.030-0.035", 5-1/2" tall and 4" wide. Some type of box elder, but red is dye I added.
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Simon Hope system

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Offset base

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Extra short arn

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5/8 old style bar and 3/4 straight bar 3/4 curved bar not shown

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[Jerry Lear]

I have a Gizmo system by JT turning for sale in classifieds'.i thing it is more robust than the monster and is practically new.Let me know if you want to see pictures .System sells new for $900.00+. Jerry

[Michael Schneider]

It is a very personal decision as there are many great systems.


I wanted one that had a similar motion and feel as hand hollowing (or as close as possible). I ended up buying a Trent Bosch Stabilizer. It stabilizes the tool, but the tool motion is similar as hand work.

By fluke, I ended up with a Vermec hollowing system that I also like. Have no favorite between them. Both systems stabilize the tool.

Trent Bosch video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPqZz-PDa4A
Vermec video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jRKYXilvuM

I liked the clark system quite a bit, but I don't do large things right now. I am just starting to play.

[Brice Rogers]

If you have more money than time or metal skills, you got good advice from previous replies.

If you enjoy making your own tools, Google the Captain Eddie Castelin Snake Hollower. He has plans on his website and I think a You-tube video. I made one out of solid 1" square steel stock. Mine mounts into a banjo with a 1" diameter post, but just as easily could have been mounted into the tailstock or the bed. My cost was under $40 IIRC and took me a couple hours. I put shoulder bolts through precision drilled holes and also used UHMW squares between the joints to reduce friction. It is pretty smooth. If it ever bothers me I might add bearings but right now they're overkill.

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[daryl moses]

If you have more money than time or metal skills, you got good advice from previous replies.

If you enjoy making your own tools, Google the Captain Eddie Castelin Snake Hollower. He has plans on his website and I think a You-tube video. I made one out of solid 1" square steel stock. Mine mounts into a banjo with a 1" diameter post, but just as easily could have been mounted into the tailstock or the bed. My cost was under $40 IIRC and took me a couple hours. I put shoulder bolts through precision drilled holes and also used UHMW squares between the joints to reduce friction. It is pretty smooth. If it ever bothers me I might add bearings but right now they're overkill.

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I'm a do-it-yourself-er as well Brice. That is a great looking system!!

[allan kuntz]

Here is a link to the articulating arm. I built it just like the instructions say. Just page down to the news letter and click on the picture to see detail instructions and a parts breakdown
It works quite well


www.rocky-roost-woodturnings.com/wood-turning-blog/home-made-articulating.html
Al
(http://www.rocky-roost-woodturnings.com/wood-turning-blog/home-made-articulating.html)

[robert baccus]

If you are handy with tools a Jamison type is very easy to make--do use a 1" bar and several bits. Been using one for 25 years now.

[Tom Giacomo]

My homemade style for $50.366928

[Brice Rogers]

Tom, that's a nice looking system. I still need to add a camera.

[Brice Rogers]

Allen, Robert and Daryl, it is nice to learn of others that can work with both metal and wood.

[Mike Goetzke]

Is it just me - I must be in the wrong part of the country - no way could I get hardware even close to $50 to make one of these.

Mike

[William C Rogers]

Is it just me - I must be in the wrong part of the country - no way could I get hardware even close to $50 to make one of these.

Mike

I couldn't either. I felt I could make a system however I didn't want to invest around $200 and not sure how well it would work as I only have the basic shop tools and no metal lathe. I do plan to build a Jamison style someday. The Jamison would be easier to build than an articulating arm style IMO. I'm happy with the Hope system as it works well. I did build my steady rest and materials for that cost around $90.

[Scott Hackler]

I own a Monster (articulated and captured), Gizmo and the Carter Hollow Roller....so I have experience on the systems. I come from a hand hollowing background and still do a bunch of hand hollowing, because it is just quicker for me to do a 4-5" diameter or smaller, by hand. But anything larger and I take the time to setup the hollowing rig. Personally I do NOT care for the captured setups (captured Montster rig, Jamison, Sinner, Carter Hollow Roller), because of the lack of smooth fluid movement in ALL axis. The articulated rigs are smooth in every axis and better mimic what I feel during hand hollowing. With the captured setups, they slide the boring bars metal to metal through the captured section. In and out of the vessels are fairly smooth but the side to side has some resistance. Not much, but some. But if you want to safely hollow very deep vessels, the captured rigs are almost the only way to go. Besides which they are relatively inexpensive (Carter Holllow Roller excepted)

Now having said that, they are generally expensive. Monster (if still available) is somewhere around $450, Gizmo (a lot heavier rig) is $700+ without boring bars, The Kobra is $1200+ and 6 month waiting to get one, Alan Trout's rig is up there with the Kobra, but is likely the heaviest built system out there (not really articulated, but with the bearing caseways it is super smooth). There are some lesser expensive articulated setups like the Elbo, but I wasn't very impressed (personally) with the build quality.

Trent Bosch's hollowing rig is a cross between articulated and ....well.. not. But is works really well, has a good amount of smooth movement and super easy to setup on the banjo with the stop collar. Plus I think it is under $350 and Brent sells nice quality hand hollowing setups that can be un-handled and placed in any hollowing rig.

Confused yet? In all seriousness, you should try to make it to a Symposium to put you hands on some (or all) of these rigs, talk to the makers and decide what will be best for you.

[Brice Rogers]

Mike,
I went to the local metal yard and bought the 1" square hot-rolled steel. I think that I paid around $1 to $1.50/pound (it was new and cost more than the rusty $ 0.65/# yard steel) and it used under 20#. The lock nuts, washers and shoulder bolts cost me about $5 -10. The UHMW was free (liberated from a 5 gallon bucket). If I had used bronze bushings or bearings, that would have added a bit more cost. But it still would be an inexpensive project, especially compared to buying a finished commercial product.

If you buy the steel from Home Despot or Lowes, you will pay perhaps 3 or 4 times what you pay at a metal yard.

I enjoy tool building projects. I like the journey and the associated challenges.

[Mark Greenbaum]

I have built mine with free 1.5" square aluminum tubes, 1" diameter shaft for the mast, and real Oilite bronze flange and thrust bearings, and 1/2" diameter shoulder screws, and I only have maybe $60 in it. The extra parts to make the Grizzly original banjo work was about $20, but it gets used for other things too. I have a thread with pictures of mine.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?256651-DIY-Hollowing-System-Articulated-Arms-on-a-mast&highlight=

[Tom Giacomo]

Mike, I used 3 feet of one inch solid steel square stock for the arms ($12) three 3/8 inch bolts and nuts ($2) and three feet of 3/8 rod for the laser($6). The battery case for the laser was $2 and the laser was $5. The rest of the price was in small things like washers and so on. The key to this set up is the clip I made to connect the arm to my tail stock which keeps the arm centered and I can install it and remove it in just a couple of minutes. I did not want to have to set up a post on the ways. Most of the build was a little welding and the drilling. The hardest was center drilling the hole for the boring bar.367012

[Len Mullin]

Mike, is there not a scrapyard in your area? That's where I get most of the metal I work with, the owner is a person I went to school with many many years ago and he lets me pick through things.
Len

[Damon McLaughlin]

My apologies for not following up with my original question sooner. I sincerely appreciate the replies and suggestions. I still have a lot of saving to do before my budget allows a hollowing system but this gives me a lot to think about in the mean time.

William, I didn't even know that the Hope system existed and even with shipping from the UK it is priced very well. The 3/4" system seems very stout but I wonder about trying to hollow through small openings. I also like that it can be mounted off to one side of the bed a little, something that may make a difference if I had my headstock rotated some. I also like that there is a complete package as it makes it easier to shop. I sometimes get overwhelmed when having to pick and choose each piece to make a system as I really don't know what it is I would need or want at this point.

Michael, thank you for pointing out the Trent Bosch system. I do like the quick set up by mounting it in the tool rest banjo, this way of mounting also would allow for hollowing with the headstock rotated. It looks like the tool bars are more 'narrow opening' friendly than the Hope bars and that the use of an adapter will allow smaller hollowing bars. A comparable system is about $100 more than the Hope hollowing system.

If I had the means and the time to make my own system I understand that may be the best way to go, build one to suit one's needs. But I've never worked with metal and not sure I want to under take such a project. I'm headed to the turning club meeting this evening and will ask there too to see if any club members might have a system that I can take for a trial run. I understand one gentleman made his own so it will be interesting to talk to him as well.

Thank you again for your input.

David

[William C Rogers]

My apologies for not following up with my original question sooner. I sincerely appreciate the replies and suggestions. I still have a lot of saving to do before my budget allows a hollowing system but this gives me a lot to think about in the mean time.

William, I didn't even know that the Hope system existed and even with shipping from the UK it is priced very well. The 3/4" system seems very stout but I wonder about trying to hollow through small openings. I also like that it can be mounted off to one side of the bed a little, something that may make a difference if I had my headstock rotated some. I also like that there is a complete package as it makes it easier to shop. I sometimes get overwhelmed when having to pick and choose each piece to make a system as I really don't know what it is I would need or want at this point.

Michael, thank you for pointing out the Trent Bosch system. I do like the quick set up by mounting it in the tool rest banjo, this way of mounting also would allow for hollowing with the headstock rotated. It looks like the tool bars are more 'narrow opening' friendly than the Hope bars and that the use of an adapter will allow smaller hollowing bars. A comparable system is about $100 more than the Hope hollowing system.

If I had the means and the time to make my own system I understand that may be the best way to go, build one to suit one's needs. But I've never worked with metal and not sure I want to under take such a project. I'm headed to the turning club meeting this evening and will ask there too to see if any club members might have a system that I can take for a trial run. I understand one gentleman made his own so it will be interesting to talk to him as well.

Thank you again for your input.

David

David

I included the 16mm boring bar. Simon called it the old style bar. The cutter installs into the end of the bar. I also bought the curve insert for it. Scroll down his web page. I guess you could also find a 1/2" bar with an adapter if you wanted really small. Most want an even bigger bar to reduce vibration. At some point I may get the Jamison 1-1/8" bar for deeper larger hollow forms. Even adding the 16mm bar and carbide cutters to the system it was least expensive option. I was initially looking at the Monster system. Adding in different cutters and getting carbide I was more expensive with the Monster system. I also looked at the Bosch system. Very nice, but again adding bars, cutters, etc. it ended up more expensive. I wanted a camera system, so the Bosch and Hope systems were top of my list. The Bosch camera system is very nice with a large screen The Hope system has a small screen, but it is easily placed on my headstock and works just fine. I thought about making a system, but I don't have access to scrap metal supplies and heavy enough shop equipment or the time. If I could have built a quality $700-800 system for $50 I would have made time. However for me my material cost was a lot more and not worth the risk. The Hope system was the best value for my needs. Yeah, the whole thing drove me crazy adding in the different options for a system price, but better now that I have a system.

[George Guadiane]

I had a Monster articulated hollowing system on my Powermatic 3420A... I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread (I'm really sorry to see they have shut down).
I buy and sell things for a living. I bought out a HUGE collection of turning tools. There were more than half a dozen hollowing systems, including Clark and a HUGE home made job that went on the OneWay 2418 (with 14 feet of bed). This turner had not heard of the Monster, but did have a Kobra setup... I'M KEEPING IT!!!!!!!! Makes the monster look puny. There are very few of them around, the maker made only about 10 a year and probably only for a few years... Kind of like a woodturning unicorn.
If you can find one, BUY IT
The following video is of an older design than the one I have, but they were/are made with precision and the intention to last forever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwcx-T6UnZ0