Help With Decisions On Wood Kitchen Countertop

[Kayleigh Kinsella]

Hi, I am new here. A friend of mine said this is the place o go for help with wood, so here I am.

After much consideration I have decided to replace my old Formica countertops with wood countertops. I'm prepared do the work for upkeep but I'm not sure about a couple of things. I pan to purchase the countertops at Connecticut Wood Group in Enfield, CT. I'm thinking of rustic walnut for the countertops and maybe a live edge board for the breakfast bar. CWG will glue up the wood and my friend will install them. Some questions:

1. What is the best finish for this? John at CWG said an oil such as Watco but I read that ha varnish in it.

2. I was also told to top mount the sink but every picture I have seen so far has been undermount.

3. If I go with undermount, how should the end grain be sealed?

Thanks for the help!

[Doug Garson]

You may want to consider an epoxy seal coat, no affiliation, haven't used them , just came across a Youtube video they posted.

http://stonecoatcountertops.com/

[scott vroom]

I've never installed wood counter tops in a kitchen so I'm far from being an expert. I'm wondering if a high quality spar varnish, one that contains tung oil and phenolic resin, such as Epifanes, would provide the most protection particularly in wet areas?

[Phillip Mitchell]

I made and installed a hard maple/cherry wood countertop (not butcher block, but edge grain facing up....think bowling alley style) in my own kitchen during a remodel last spring. There are many things that I know now from constant use and wear that would have better informed my convictions and decisions at the time of building it. I used several (6-7) wipe on coats of Waterlox Original Sealer and finished it with 1 coat of the Satin Finish. I've been very happy with the finish overall, though I detail a thing or 2 further down this post. The Waterlox finishing approach is not what I would call fast, though it is easier (read: less skill and practice needed than with brushing on finishes) to apply hand rubbed than some other options. My finishing procedure lasted at least 8-9 days, though in hindsight, I shouldn't have rushed it and instead taken more like 2 weeks+ to apply the finish and let it dry before install. It's recommended to wait 24 hrs in between coats of Waterlox. The finish itself is beautiful, low sheen, and very natural looking. It yellows the wood similar to an oil based polyurethane does, but not quite as much.

There are different/more proactive steps you should probably take in terms of actually using your wood countertop to help it last and look good as it ages. I don't leave standing water on the countertop longer than necessary, which is a chore by itself, compared to granite or laminate tops, which are nowhere near as sensitive. The countertops have held up very well to wear and tear in terms of resisting dents from use. I don't put hot things on my counter ever and I don't put rough bottomed pots and pans (cast iron skillets, big pots, etc) directly on the counter. I obviously don't use the counter as a cutting board. The only way you can do that is with a food safe finish like mineral oil/bees wax, and maintenance on that is much more demanding and consistent than a sealed finish.

It has held up very well from stains and spots so far except for in 1 area to the left of the kitchen sink. A friend was house-sitting for a week while we were on vacation and inadvertently left some drops of dish detergent? on the counter in this spot. I returned home to see several darkened spots and have been unable to remove them with very light sanding. I hesitate to take the sanding very far at all until I'm prepared to deal with refinishing that spot/the entire counter. I will eventually need to sand and refinish that area if I feel I can blend the finish back and do it during a stretch of time when the sink won't be in use for a week or so (unlikely any time soon...)

There are many other finishing options. You might do some searching and reading on this forum, specifically on the Finishing forum. Many folks have built wood countertops and used many different finishes.

As for the sink, my opinion is to go undermount and use a quality silicone to seal the gap between the bottom of the counter and top of sink. I think it's easier to manage the water that inevitably ends up all around your kitchen sink with an undermount. With an undermount install, the water that ends up trying to penetrate that gap/seal between counter and sink can just drain down into the sink (due to gravity). Water on the countertop near the sink can just be wiped into the sink. With a top mount, the edge of the sink is higher than the surrounding counter and creates a water trap that can cause problems if your sealing job isn't perfect and you aren't incredibly diligent about wiping up standing water. You need to be diligent either way, but I feel that an undermount gives the water a better chance to actually drain back into the sink naturally, which is a bit less to worry about than the top mount situation.

Also, I would apply finish to both sides of the counter equally, which is something I didn't do diligently with mine. I've seen no issues from it so far, but it is something that bugs me when I think back on the process. I was rushed and trying to meet a deadline (from my wife) and didn't allow as much time for a couple things as I could have.


Hope this helps.

[John TenEyck]

The answer depends upon how much abuse you plan to subject the counter tops to. If you want to cut directly on them then you should use something like mineral oil with bees wax dissolved in it as your finish. It doesn't provide much protection, but it's easy to maintain and won't chip or peel from cutting into it. On the other end of the scale, if this will be more of a show kitchen than working one, then put Waterlox, Arm-R-Seal, or some other varnish on them; they look great on walnut. Just don't ever cut on them or set a hot pan directly on them. If you are somewhere in between, and it will be working kitchen but you will never cut directly on the counter tops, I'd go with the varnish option.

As far as the sink goes, same answer. Top mount for a working kitchen, under mount for the show kitchen.

John

[Doug Garson]

Philip, did you have any issues with the odour from the finishes you used? Years ago I made a driftwood bed and finished it with spar varnish (don't recall what brand) but it took months to totally offgas the volatiles from the varnish.

[Phillip Mitchell]

The Waterlox is definitely smelly during application. From what I remember, I was still smelling whiffs of it for at least a few days after install, and I think it let it sit for 48 hrs between the last coat and installing it so that's 4-7 days of smells. Certainly no more than a week of odor after the last coat.

[jack duren]

We usually epoxy and finish with urethane....

[Jamie Buxton]

My advice is don't use wooden counters at the sink. And certainly don't use wood if you undermount the sink. Constant exposure to water is eventually going to cause staining, and even splitting. I want to use a kitchen without pussyfooting around. I'd use wood elsewhere in the kitchen, but use slab stone at the sink, and undermount the sink. The cost of slab stone has dropped to point that it is almost the least expensive material for counters these days. And stone is way more durable against water than wood.

[jack duren]

My advice is don't use wooden counters at the sink. And certainly don't use wood if you undermount the sink. Constant exposure to water is eventually going to cause staining, and even splitting. I want to use a kitchen without pussyfooting around. I'd use wood elsewhere in the kitchen, but use slab stone at the sink, and undermount the sink. The cost of slab stone has dropped to point that it is almost the least expensive material for counters these days. And stone is way more durable against water than wood.

" I'm prepared do the work for upkeep".....

[peter gagliardi]

We put in a butcherblock style maple countertop in a kitchen over 20 years ago.
It was an L shape with a mitered corner and a drop in sink.
We used satin oil based polyurethane on it-4 coats top and bottom and all edges.
The people that own it are very,very heavy with water everywhere, and no issues yet. I would have no qualms about doing the same again.

[Dave Zellers]

Also, I would apply finish to both sides of the counter equally, which is something I didn't do diligently with mine. I've seen no issues from it so far, but it is something that bugs me when I think back on the process. I was rushed and trying to meet a deadline (from my wife) and didn't allow as much time for a couple things as I could have.

This is essential! I don't have a kitchen wood counter with an under mount sink, but I do have a lavatory wood counter with an under mount sink and I was meticulous about coating the underside as much as the top. Probably 12-14 coats of Arm-R-Seal with sanding in between. 5-6 years later it still looks like new. I didn't even bother to caulk the joint between the sink and counter because I was confident that the counter was totally sealed.

And don't think it doesn't get wet! You should see it when the grand kids visit! OY!

[John TenEyck]

We put in a butcherblock style maple countertop in a kitchen over 20 years ago.
It was an L shape with a mitered corner and a drop in sink.
We used satin oil based polyurethane on it-4 coats top and bottom and all edges.
The people that own it are very,very heavy with water everywhere, and no issues yet. I would have no qualms about doing the same again.


Mitered corner? The RH must be very stable; otherwise, that corner would have opened up substantially, regardless of how much finish is on it.

John

[Ed Pollock]

I am in the process of installing my Sapele countertops now. The finishing process is not compete, but this is what I did:
First coat was "Dark Walnut" stained danish oil. I let this dry for three days. Sanded lightly with 400 grit
Second coat was shellac. Sanded with 400
Third - Arm-R-Seal gloss. I have applied 5? coats of this. Each coat was thinned with mineral spirits to allow it to flow more easily and dry more quickly. Sanding with 400 between each coat.
Final coat, Arm-R-Seal Satin. My plan is for this to be the final coat, but depending on how it looks i may apply more as needed.

In between each coat I have tipped the counters up on their back edge and used an inexpensive, fast drying polyurethane to the bottom and back edge.

The Arm-R-Seal looks fantastic, and should hold up well to everything but heat. I can always lightly sand and add additional coats to the top as needed. I am going to try to attach some pictures....
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We we be using an under-mount sink, and I plan to seal the top of sink to bottom of counters with silicone. I am less concerned with the end grain at the sink than I would be with the inevitable pooling of water around the edge of a top mounted sink (behind the sink in particular).

[Kayleigh Kinsella]

Thank you for all the great replies! I've copied them to a Word file for reference.

Before reading your replies I was thinking of using something like tung oil or BLO and reapplying it regularly. I've been told that's easier than having to repair dings and scratches in a varnished type finish.

I will definitely apply a sealant to the underside. It seems everyone agrees on that. The undermount sink makes the most sense for cleaning.

Thanks again for all the help!

[Ed Pollock]

Kayleigh,

It sounds like you may already understand this, but be careful of a couple of things:

Whatever you apply to the top, apply it to the bottom too. Do not seal the bottom with a varnish if you plan on only oiling the top. This will create an imbalance in the way to wood absorbs moisture from the air. Whatever you do on one side, do to all sides.

I know a couple who used Sapele for their countertops and determined Tung Oil was going to be the right finish for them. I can attest that in appearance they are gorgeous, but it requires a lot of upkeep. They are not "sealed" and there is no film finish protecting the wood from water etc. This leads to rings from glasses and stains from standing water. They spend a lot of time preventing marks like this from happening, which can create stress when you have guests in your home etc. They also have to re-oil every year or so.

I highly recommend you seal the wood with something. epoxy, polyurethane, anything. Anything will be better at protecting the wood than just an oil alone. I would use an oil first, then a seal coat of shellac, then whatever protective layer you want. With the ease of applying poly, and the different sheen's available, you can obtain pretty much any look you want.

[Mark Gibney]

I'll just add this - Kayleigh if you haven't used BLO before, be very careful of how you dispose of the paper towels or rags you use to apply it with. They can combust and cause a fire. The same with any finish that contains linseed or tung oil.

[peter gagliardi]

Mitered corner? The RH must be very stable; otherwise, that corner would have opened up substantially, regardless of how much finish is on it.

John
It remains to this day, absolutely perfectly tight. The key is understanding how wood moves, and accounting for it.
The ends of the counter away from the joint are secured to the cabinets with screws through washers, just tight enough to keep the top down, the backsplash is secured to the wall, not the counter.
The counter ends are surrounded by close fitting tile with no grout, and the counter ends can then expand and contract toward and away from the wall effortlessly, the 1/4"-3/8" that it does move and never be seen.

[John TenEyck]

It remains to this day, absolutely perfectly tight. The key is understanding how wood moves, and accounting for it.
The ends of the counter away from the joint are secured to the cabinets with screws through washers, just tight enough to keep the top down, the backsplash is secured to the wall, not the counter.
The counter ends are surrounded by close fitting tile with no grout, and the counter ends can then expand and contract toward and away from the wall effortlessly, the 1/4"-3/8" that it does move and never be seen.


So what you are saying is you glued and/or bolted the mitered corner together and let the other ends pivot to accommodate the expansion/contraction with the seasons? Very clever.

John

[peter gagliardi]

That is correct.

[Wayne Lomman]

Kayleigh, having done solid timber tops many times over the years, thete are two successfully ways to go.

First and best is a 2 pack polyurethane clear. It must be a 2 pack. It will have durability, water resistance, flexibility and no lingering odour after the initial coating application. 2 or 3 coats all over. Use the same product from start to finish. This will effectively seal the timber if you want an undermount sink which I don't recommend by the way. I can't recommend a specific product as I have different products available here in Oz but an industrial grade aliphatic polyurethane is the class of product.

Alternatively, use tung oil but if you do this, really, really don't do an undermount sink. The tung oil will require a bit of top up from time to time.

Timber tops are best if you use chopping boards, coasters etc all the time. Your sink cut out is the perfect source of matching timber for chopping boards. Cheers