Getting quotes on spraying shed ceiling with closed cell foam

[Mike Heidrick]

I am getting quotes on spraying closed cell foam on my shed ceiling (on bubble wrap just under metal). Looking only at closed cell 2lb foam at this point.

Getting quotes on 2" and 3".
Looking at spraying gable ends as well and it will seal the eaves and ridge cap.
I have asked about protecting the shop from overspray and handling etc.
What other questions should I ask before picking an outfit based on cost.
Both seem very similar - one sprays 2lb r7.4 per inch foam from IDI and another said 7.2 foam from Icynene. Both cover everything in shop and both guess 2 day job.

[Jim Andrew]

please keep us updated. Noticed you can buy a container of spray foam at Menards.

[Scott T Smith]

Mike, in my area closed cell spray foam usually runs around $2.00 per square foot, and open cell is about $1.50.

[Mike Heidrick]

OK thank you. Looking at ~1.17 per sqft per inch sprayed for 2 of the 3 quotes for closed cell.

[roger wiegand]

It's $1/"bf" in MA-- I'mshocked that something construction related is cheaper here!

It's a pretty fast easy process. Cover your tools with a plastic tarp and make sure the workers have good access to the walls both for spraying and trimming, like 6' of free space at least. Plan on airing the space out pretty well for a couple days after.

The DIY kits are fun to use as well, I did the rim joists in my son's house with one. You are pretty conscious of the meter ticking on that $400 tank as you spray!

[Martin Wasner]

As far as I know, anything over an inch is a waste in a ceiling. You can't get to an effective R value with foam so you end up blowing in insulation anyways. Most of the time around here they just skin it with an inch to seal everything up, then blow the rest in on a ceiling.

I've seen where they just do the edges and any penetrations and that gets you 80% result for a lot less money. Or so I'm told.

Do closed cell.

[Jim Becker]

As far as I know, anything over an inch is a waste in a ceiling. You can't get to an effective R value with foam so you end up blowing in insulation anyways. Most of the time around here they just skin it with an inch to seal everything up, then blow the rest in on a ceiling.

I've seen where they just do the edges and any penetrations and that gets you 80% result for a lot less money. Or so I'm told.

Do closed cell.]
I have to seriously disagree with you on that Martin. The newest 2200 sq ft of my home is insulated with closed cell spray foam and "up top" we have, more or less, R50. It's very efficient, a great vapor barrier and adds significant structural integrity.

[Martin Wasner]

It doesn't pay in the ceiling to bring it to an R50. Disagree all you want, once it's skinned it's cheaper to blow the rest in and there's not much benefit to the foam.

The benefit of spray foaming is sealing and filling all gaps so there's no air transfer. In a ceiling you don't have to worry about creating a void in between two kinds of insulation since gravity is on your side and therefore creating potential for moisture issues like you would in a wall. Wall requirements are significantly lower in efficiency as well, so the cost isn't that bad.

[Malcolm McLeod]

In our current home, we did open-cell foam encapsulation - 3.5" in the walls, and (quoted) at 5.5" in the rafter bays (against the roof deck). The installer fell asleep when he got to roof. He buried the rafters at least an inch deep. My garage/shop was included in the mix. Walk up attic is perhaps 85degF on 110 degF day (and it gets no air circulation).

It is far and away the easiest house to heat and cool - - where I pay the bills. ....Best money I've spent.

It IS messy! Capital MESSY!! If the building is 'furnished', has finished floors, or has mechanicals in place, cover everything with dropcloths, tarp, or plastic-sheeting!

[Jim Becker]

Martin, in the scenario I spoke about, there's no place to blow in anything...the foam is on the envelop like Malcolm just described and the area is considered conditioned space. I would do the same thing if I were building a shop building like the OP's. As to it paying off, we added 2200 sq ft to our home and a second HVAC unit. Our energy use stayed almost the same as with just one HVAC unit previously. (with insulation improvements in the older portion of the home, of course) It's long paid for itself...

[Martin Wasner]

If you can't blow it in, that is a different story.

In not knocking spray foam, it's an awesome product, but it does have diminishing returns and there's ways to save money but not lose any of the benefits.

I wanted to do my building in spray foam, it just wasn't viable for me too so so. I talked to a lot of people leading up to it though. The benefits are huge, I just couldn't swallow the extra 40k on the project to make it happen.

[Mike Heidrick]

The bubble wrap was to somewhat seal the building until i could get to paying for insulation. Since I have had it I have not had condensation issues.

I am going with the crew that works with the guy, Michael, that hand built my building. He delivered the best answers to my questions and most importantly he takes pride in having built my shed. He also knows what kind a customer I am, a big jerk that is needy but is very giving lol. I need someone that can put up with my countless research questions and nagging. His quote is awesome too and I am happy to be working with him again!

I decided to spray 3" of 2lb closed cell btw. Entire ceiling and gable ends. Basiclly spray everything above 16'. Seal eaves and ridge vent.

[roger wiegand]

If you do flash and batt (or cellulose) the foam layer has to be thick enough so that you won't have a condensing surface on the inside of your wall between the foam and other insulation. In northern climates that is typically r20 or greater, or 4+ inches of foam. (there are tables to look up the correct values) Once you've gone that far it generally doesn't make sense to bring in a second contractor to add a second kind of insulation, it will be more cost effective to just foam to your target value or to fill the available space. This is particularly true on roofs where you want to encase the rafters fully to prevent thermal transfer. You need to remember to derate the foam to its eventual insulation value, not what it has when it is new.

Flash and batt was a good idea that hasn't found much use, at least here in the frozen north except in superinsulated projects with 4+" of foam and another 6-10" of cellulose. As proposed it allows too much thermal transfer through the framing. We did a hybrid approach on our retrofit of the walls in the old part of our house, where we clad the exterior in continuous rigid foam then blew cellulose into the stud bays. We didn't want to strip the interior walls to get access for spray foam. That's working very well so far. We did 8" of spray foam in the rafters for the roof though, as there was no good way to use a second kind of insulation under the rafters.

[Bill Dufour]

Old 919180 house in my neighborhood they pulled the siding off to update wiring, plumbing, and add it's first insulation. they they sheathed in plywood and stucco. No mess on the inside.
I would hate to try to remove a properly nailed shear wall plywood, nails every 3-4 inches on the edge.
Bill D.

[Mike Heidrick]

Roger I am spraying only ceiling and gable ends above trusses. Walls are R19 kraft faced from Menards. Cant afford closed cell on walls too.

Bill this is a pole barn.

This is not my house.

[Stanley Powers]

As far as I know, anything over an inch is a waste in a ceiling. You can't get to an effective R value with foam so you end up blowing in insulation anyways. Most of the time around here they just skin it with an inch to seal everything up, then blow the rest in on a ceiling.

I've seen where they just do the edges and any penetrations and that gets you 80% result for a lot less money. Or so I'm told.

Do closed cell.

Used urethane foam almost 40 years ago on my post and beam house. Was far superior to any existing alternative then and still is today. More costly yes, but over the occupancy of the house and resale value; would do it again in a second!

[Martin Wasner]

I'm not against foam. It's just not cost effective to bring it up to the code R value here in a ceiling, but I'd still skin the lid and blow the rest in. I live in Minnesota-when you can have a delta T of 110° in the winter, the insulation requirements get rather large.

[Justin Ludwig]

Mike,

I sprayed 2" on my roof and 1.5" on the walls. My envelope is 40x70x10 with a 3/12 pitch. Cost me $11,500. Best money spent on the shop, hands down. I had a friend over on a day when the outside temp was 100 and had him climb a ladder and put his hand on the roof. His jaw hit the floor 14' below. The radiant heat barrier is insane. The only problem I had with my was where it caused the tin to expand just enough at a window to allow water to creep in on the J-trim channel, but I easily fixed that.

Once I get a cyclone and stop blowing my dust outside, I'll add 3 mini-splits to cool the place and control the humidity.

[Mike Heidrick]

According to the pump numbers he sprayed on average almost 4" across my gable ends and ceiling. $9500 is what cost me as we contracted for 3" in the 40x64 4:12 ceiling and gable ends. Ill prob regret not doing walls too but those batts are in. They finished at noon yesterday. It was 91 out today and the shop was cool inside.

[Jim Becker]

Mike, it's not uncommon to "get more" than you contracted for when it comes to closed cell spray foam. :) You're paying for the minimum, but it's not an exact process for the operator who's coating your walls or roof underside. I paid for R38 "upstairs" in our addition and in most places they nearly filled the 12" joist bays 3/4 of the way...which is in many places about an R60. :)

[Mike Heidrick]

Kinda glad of that then as some have pointed out R20 minimum in this temp band here