Lathe question

[Brandon Speaks]

I am dead set on upgrading to a full size lathe in the very near future. I am however having some challenges in getting 240 to my shop in an affordable convenient way. I had been thinking that a grizz 776 was the right lathe for me but that obviously requires the extra power.

How much more limited would I be with one of the 120v evs/dvr lathes such as the Nova, Jet, or Laguna compared to the Grizzly? Would I be better off to delay a little longer and get the wiring upgrade?

[John Grace]

Yes...I would wait and get the 'power' resolved. Limited power equals limited HP.

[Steve Doerr]

I agree with John. The extra voltage will allow you to get a larger motor (2 or 3 hp) which in turn allows you to turn larger pieces of wood. Definitely worth the wait unless you want to upgrade again later.

[Michael Schneider]

Brandon,

When I restarted turning a couple of years ago, someone in my turning group suggested that I upgrade everything in my turning shop except for my lathe first.

- grinder + CBN wheels
- chucks and jaws
- update to thompson and d-way tools
- practice practice practice
- then update lathe.

I had a nice small lathe to work with. Not sure what your shop is like, or if you have already updated the rest of your turning shop.

Take care, and have fun,
Michael

[Roger Chandler]

Having owned 2 115V lathes, and two 220V lathes, one being the G0766 you mention, I would definitely hold out for the big boy! Not sure what your issues are at your location, but at mine, I had to hand dig a trench to lay conduit/wire about 60 feet to my shop building in the back yard. I wired my entire shop, including my 220v lathe receptacle. I came off my main panel in the house with a 60amp breaker, ran wire to sub panel in the shop building, and branched off 4 main 20amp circuits. I never pull more than about 25 amps at one time runing lathe, dust collector, and overhead air cleaner, and perhaps a fan for cooling in summer, or small electric heater in winter. Most of the time it is less than 20 amps.

Yep, it was worth all the effort, and by doing the work myself, I saved a bundle. I had a little guidance from an electrician, but did the work myself. If you are not competent in electrical wiring, get a licensed electrician who knows local codes. All my work was done up to both local codes and national electrical standards.

[John K Jordan]

I am dead set on upgrading to a full size lathe in the very near future. I am however having some challenges in getting 240 to my shop in an affordable convenient way. I had been thinking that a grizz 776 was the right lathe for me but that obviously requires the extra power.

How much more limited would I be with one of the 120v evs/dvr lathes such as the Nova, Jet, or Laguna compared to the Grizzly? Would I be better off to delay a little longer and get the wiring upgrade?


A lot depends on how big of pieces you think you want to turn. Probably just as much depends on your skill with the tools.

For a bunch of years I used a 110v Jet 1642 and was never limited except for the 16" swing. That can make a pretty big bowl or reasonably sized platter. I turned wet and dry. About 10 years ago I made this walnut bowl for a neighbor using the 1642 - it's over 15" in diameter.
366635

I have not ONCE bogged down that 1-hp with any turning nor felt there was not plenty of power. Sharp tools, good tool control, and turning smart beat brute force every time (IMHO). And also my opinion, there is more to life than bigger and bigger bowls.

I eventually got a 220v PM3520b with a lot more power but that's not the reason I got it. I liked the 20" swing and the heavier banjo and tailstock. A used Jet 1642 can be had for much less than a larger lathe. I bought a used one for a spare and for teaching:
366636

Another case: A friend turned has some pretty darned big bowls on a old and small Delta lathe starting with some huge chunks of wood - his bowls were far bigger than the lathes' swing. It turned outboard with a home-made tool rest. It used pipe clamps to secure the lathe to his garage wall to keep the vibration from out-of-balance blanks from walking the lathe around the shop. I think the lathe was 3/4 hp. This didn't stop him. The point is you with enough determination you can do a great deal with minimal tools, missing only some bragging rights.

And no one should worry about lacking the skill at the moment to turn big things without big horsepower. That will come, especially if progressing logically, i.e., learning fine tool control by starting and becoming proficient with spindle turning before heading into big bowl land. This is a proven method. Some patience and a lot of work required.

So one option is to get a better lathe but one like the 1642 that runs on 110v power. When time and finances permit rewire the shop to add 220 and more 110v outlets. Get the big lathe then and sell the other lathe, or keep it for a second lathe if you have the room. A second lathe in the shop is very useful.

As for the 220v, if you have a friend who knows electrical wiring perhaps you can get him to help teach you. In most places the homeowner can do the wiring. There is nothing to prevent the friend from advising - he just can't do the work. I ran a 220 outlet about 35' to my PM lathe and I think it cost me less than $20 plus the piece of 10 gauge Romex which I already had. (In fact, thinking back I think I had everything on hand including the breaker.) I think it took less than an hour of time including taking down the wall panel and putting it back.

JKJ

[Brandon Speaks]

I do have a decent grinder, although not with CBN wheels yet, have pretty decent turning tools (although I could always use more :)). My lathe is a Harbor freight 10x18, it has actually been a champ for what is is and will do a balanced 6-7 inch bowl blank with minimal problem, you cant take deep cuts but it works. But that is really abut its limit it seems. So in reality I am pretty limited, I am not looking to do anything over 10-12 inches at the moment, but who knows.

I had toyed this spring with getting something like a 1221vs but decided that was too big a compromise on size, then a nova 1624 but you loose the evs. So held out a bit. I am getting to where I have $2000-$2500 budget for something but the grizz and wiring come in over that (I really am not skilled to do the wiring myself). Also the new 1.5hp lathes for close to $2,500 feel like an expensive compromise, if I could find one used that would be a different story, but checking craigslist daily for a few months I have seen nothing.

It is looking like I am best to hold out a bit longer.

[Reed Gray]

If you sell your bowls, I could turn a bowl on my PM or Robust in half the time that I could on the Jet 1 1/2 hp. Practice cuts are good for learning technique, but for heavy duty work, you need the extra power. Same cuts actually, but on the 220 volt like, the wood ribbon is twice as wide. If you are doing finish cuts only, the lower HP will work fine.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

If you sell your bowls, I could turn a bowl on my PM or Robust in half the time that I could on the Jet 1 1/2 hp. Practice cuts are good for learning technique, but for heavy duty work, you need the extra power. Same cuts actually, but on the 220 volt like, the wood ribbon is twice as wide. If you are doing finish cuts only, the lower HP will work fine.

robo hippy

That explains it - all my cuts are finish cuts!

JKJ, (as far as possible from being a production turner)

[Gary Baler]

Brandon,
I sell all my bowls so I am very far from John. I have turned about 1,500 bowls on a Nova 16-24. For the money it is a great value. It will handle big bowls fairly well. Anything over16" is almost bigger than necessary ... a 20" bowl will not allow plates directly across on a normal table. I turn less than 2% of my bowls over 16". You don't necessarily need the biggest or most powerful.

[Reed Gray]

Gary, I don't have my 3 hp Robust for the size factor, and agreed anything over about 14 to 16 inch diameter is difficult to sell. I have it for the power, which is a huge time saver, and time is money. I have turned on that Nova, and it is adequate, but under powered for my style of turning...

robo hippy

[Gary Baler]

Reed, my assumption is that Brandon is not going to turn bowls like we do, and since cost seems to enter into the equation. I figured that it would be awhile before he was throwing 1/2"shavings across the room. By the way, I want to let you know how much I respect your efforts of sharing your knowledge and experience.

[Darryl Hansen]

Ive turned 21" bowls on my Nova DVR using the outboard attachment. Never had any problem hogging out of balance logs. I'm on 110 and there is plenty of power for my use. Sure you can wait but unless you turn something gigantic all the time why would you want to. I'm with John Jordon's tongue in cheek comment. If you take gentle cuts all the time you don't need a bunch of horses. Usually in October Technatool runs specials. IMO

[Olaf Vogel]

I am however having some challenges in getting 240 to my shop in an affordable convenient way.

Brandon

What are those challenges?
I've heard many stories where electricians have advised clients in very expensive ways.
But there is often a much more reasonable solution.

My shop is 200m from the house and can run 10hp at 240v.
Installed it myself, got an electrician to do the hook up and inspection. Total cost ~$1200
Thats for ALL wiring in the shop: 220 circuit, 110 circuit and hook ups to machines.

[Brandon Speaks]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I really dont intend to sell anything, just something I do for fun, I guess not having turned on anything more than my small 1/2 hp lathe its hard to gauge what is "enough" lathe for me.

For the challenges of running 240 it is not massive but will kill a good chunk of my lathe budget. My shop is in an attached garage (with insulation and drywall). The breaker is in the basement not super far from the garage corner.

The possible cheapest solution would be to convert one single circuit 20 amp outlet to 240, a quick phone conversation with an electrician indicated that if I was correct that it is a single circuit outlet I could do it for a couple hundred bucks which is fine. The problem is that is the only outlet in that area and I do use it for other things (grinder, miter saw, shop vac, job site table saw) as well so converting it would limit the ability to plug in anything else on the entire back wall. In theory I could convert my bandsaw to 240 and move it back there with the lathe and reorganize the shop to make it work.

Another option would be to add a sub panel in the garage and then run conduit to a few new 240 and 110 outlets, or remove the drywall and run inside the wall (not sure which would be better here). From what I understand though I am likely in over $1500 for this which kills my budget.

A 110 lathe would allow me to pretty much plug and play without major extra expense, rearranging the shop, or any other hassle. It would give me full size and 3x the power I have now (maybe more, not sure what power the 1/2 hp harbor freight lathe really has). If this involved an investment of at or about $1,000 I would do it in a heart beat. But I would either be giving up size (somthing like a 1221vs) or giving up evs (something like a nova 1624), both would be a huge upgrade from today but still a compromise (how much of one and if it would bother me I am not sure) but not make me uncomfortable with the idea of a final upgrade a few years down the road. To get size and evs you get into the $2000-$2800 range, at that kind of price this would have to be "the lathe" for probably 10 years at least. Even the 110 ones would be a huge upgrade for me and very likely keep me happy for quite some time, but when spending that much I would hate to wonder "what if I had the grizz, or the 240 version of this one."

I suppose if I had turned on more different lathes the answer would be more clear as to what I would be happy with. Since that is very hard to tell my gut is telling me I should error on the side of going bigger.

[John K Jordan]

To get size and evs you get into the $2000-$2800 range, at that kind of price this would have to be "the lathe" for probably 10 years at least. Even the 110 ones would be a huge upgrade for me and very likely keep me happy for quite some time, but when spending that much I would hate to wonder "what if I had the grizz, or the 240 version of this one."


Craigslist shows a Jet 1642 variable speed 110v lathe for $1350 in SC. I paid not much more than that for a good used one for a second lathe. A friend found one for $1200. Several people I know have been turning happily on these for 10 years or so.

JKJ

[Brandon Speaks]

I have been searching daily in Minneapolis area with no luck.

[John K Jordan]

I have been searching daily in Minneapolis area with no luck.

You might expand your search. I drove about 1200 miles round trip to bring back a good deal on a gently used Powermatic 3520b in a U-Haul trailer.

JKJ

[Bob Bouis]

I'd be *really* sure your single outlet circuit really is a single outlet circuit. Such things are rare in my experience. But if it is, the material cost of converting it to 220v should be about $20. With a rudimentary understanding of writing it's an easy DIY job. Replace 1 pole breaker with 2 pole breaker. Black on hot, white (originally from neutral) to the other hot, ground stays on ground. Replace outlet. Done.

But personally I'd never buy anything less than 3hp lathe. If you really dig into the wood it's easy to stall even a 2hp 220v motor.

[John K Jordan]

...converting it to 220v should be about $20. With a rudimentary understanding of writing it's an easy DIY job. Replace 1 pole breaker with 2 pole breaker. Black on hot, white (originally from neutral) to the other hot, ground stays on ground. Replace outlet. Done.

You forgot a critical step: paint each end of the white wire with a color or wrap with colored electrical tape. This is required to indicate the white is hot. I like to use the black liquid tape which forms a tough rubber bond.

The whole job should only take 15-20 minutes, a bit longer if you have to move or double up on other breakers to make room for the 2-pole breaker. Have a flashlight handy and a helper to hold it unless there is a window near or you work the box hot. Without experience, as mentioned, a friend there to advise is the way to go.

JKJ

[Bob Bouis]

You forgot a critical step: paint each end of the white wire with a color or wrap with colored electrical tape. This is required to indicate the white is hot. I like to use the black liquid tape which forms a tough rubber bond.

I've literally never seen somebody do that for a simple outlet or appliance. Now, if you had splices or were sharing boxes, definitely. But for a simple outlet, anybody who knows what black on the white wire means would also know from the context exactly what it's doing when connected to a 220v breaker or outlet.

So I don't know if I'd call it "critical," but this is a valid point, as from googling it's apparently required by code in most places. Good catch.

[Joe Bradshaw]

Brandon, you mentioned putting in a subpanel. I think that would be the best solution and then run all your wiring in surface mounted conduit. A couple of books from the library or some youtube videos could walk you through the installation. As John said, expand your search area. A road trip could be fun. As to lathe size, join your local turning club. Go to peoples shops. Woodturners love to show off their shops and lathes. As a plus, you can try out different lathes. I currently have six lathes, a Oneway 2436, two Oneway 1224's, a Jet 1221vs, a Jet 1220 and a Robust Liberty. I actually turn more on the Oneway 1224. I save the big lathe for platters and wall hangings. My girlfriend uses the Robust more than I do. In fact, she likes it so much she got one for herself. I guess this is my long winded way of saying for you to try many different lathes.
Joe