Anyone engraving to aerospace standards?

[Scott Shepherd]

We engraved some items for a customer on stainless and they were happy with the results. However, their customer is aerospace and they want them to prove that the engraving is done to Aerospace standards and give the AS# for the requirements. They are asking if there's anything we can provide to them that proves our engraving is complaint with the spec. The spec calls for .0001"-.003" of an inch deep. Of course we an measure that, and even destructive test one to prove the depth, but they are looking for actual paperwork from us that meets the certification requirements. Since we're not ISO certified and don't have any of our tools calibrated, I'm stumped on what I can provide to satisfy the end client who wants us to "prove" it?

I know there are a number of people doing aerospace work on here, and I'm sure some of you have been asked about this before.

[Gary Hair]

Just do the engraving and ask them to prove it's not to spec... problem solved!

[Scott Shepherd]

Just do the engraving and ask them to prove it's not to spec... problem solved!

HA! I wish. They want me to prove it's to spec. Without an inspection department, I'm not sure how I can provide that documentation that meets federal standards.

[Kev Williams]

Google your city name plus "measurement certification optical comparator"-- lots of optical comparators will come up for sale first, which is par for the internet-- what you're actually looking for is a shop that performs the service and will provide you with written certification of your engraving depths. This should do the trick :)

[kyle bonnell]

Maybe these guys can point you in the right direction. I know it pertains to foods but I'm sure someone there knows who to contact.

http://www.vdacs.virginia.gov/food-weights-and-measures-services.shtml#activities

[Brian Lamb]

I used to own an Aerospace machine shop, so very familiar with the specs. As for proving that the engraving is to specification, i.e. depth, you would have to have someone "certified" to whatever final specification they are talking about, ISO 9001 or whatever the current standard is (I've been out of the business since the mid 90's), inspect the parts. They could use an indicator with a fine point and check the depth, or possibly section an area through the engraving and put that on the aforementioned optical comparator and see if the depth is to spec. This would all have to be done by someone certified though.

As for you certifying that the engraving is to spec, unless you become "certified", you can't specify diddly. We started laser engraving parts back in the early 90's with a ULS engraver, had to go to our customer and get blue prints changed and laser engraving added to the Mil-spec, as it was all pretty new technology. We ended up doing a lot of laser part marking.

[Glen Monaghan]

As others have said, you'd have to have someone who is certified check it and provide legit documentation. If the customer didn't originally specify that they needed this certification, they aren't entitled to receive it gratis. It will cost you to obtain it for them and should have been worked into the original quote, but now should be an extra or add-on cost item. I'd get a quote or two on what it will cost to obtain and mark that up for your customer to cover my time in tracking down a certification source, getting the certification, and all the miscellaneous costs of the process (such as shipping or hand delivery/pick-up of the test article, your time, whatever expenses you incur). Or, if you don't really want to mess with that, point out to them that this is what you would have to do, and they may be willing to bypass your overhead and do it themselves.

[Scott Shepherd]

Thanks guys, it's all good. No worries. When they found us, they sent their quality manager over and I made it very clear that we weren't interested in setting up any ISO like systems here just to do their work. They were fine with it. They aren't asking us to retroactively do it, it's just an employee asking us what it would take for us to certify it.

I'll have the discussion with them and see what they want to do.

[John Kleiber]

So far I've been lucky in that no one has asked me to prove depth compliance.
Generally I engrave max by a very unscientific method of viewing through a magnification loop and go with it.


366565

-John

[Kev Williams]

My customers either take my word for it, or do their own depth checking. I'm working on some parts this moment that once came back to me because they were not deep enough by .0004".... less than half a thou and I'm getting NCR'd? I explained that if they actually smoothed down the tips of the tiny pyramids left by the fiber's hatch filling, they'd find engraving that would be closer to plus .001"... they did, and did :)

[Tim Bateson]

.. not deep enough by .0004".... :)

Unbelievable. The thickness of a sheet of paper is only .003-.004. & you get dinged at .0004??? My calipers doesn't measure anything less than .001.

[Matt McCoy]

Unbelievable. The thickness of a sheet of paper is only .003-.004. & you get dinged at .0004??? My calipers doesn't measure anything less than .001.

It looks like a typo.

[Scott Shepherd]

It looks like a typo.

Nope, not a typo in the machining world. .0004" is a very real dimension and you can certainly be out of tolerance by .0004" and have it rejected. It's splitting a hair about 6-7 times to get .0004".

[Matt McCoy]

Nope, not a typo in the machining world. .0004" is a very real dimension and you can certainly be out of tolerance by .0004" and have it rejected. It's splitting a hair about 6-7 times to get .0004".

Thanks Steve -- I see now: "less than half a thou".

That's a tight tolerance!

[Kev Williams]

The thing about these parts, and so many many others in this biz---

they're just an aluminum cover, about 6 x 3-1/2" with some holes for connector plugs, they come to me fairly rough orbit-sanded, and I laser them .004" deep minimum. My customer picks them up, clear chem-films them, and then their customer uses them, just like that. There's no other surface coatings, no paint fill in the engraving, nothing. For all intents and purposes they're just a raw aluminum cover, and the only purposes of the engraving is to be readable and have it not rub off (like silk screening can)... you don't need .004" deep for that, and .0004" for sure won't make much difference. I have great respect for engineers, but sometimes their logic escapes me... ;)

[John Lifer]

It all depends on the engineer Kev, it all depends on the engineer...... "I is one" :p, and I've asked for some pretty dumb things too, but learned quickly that real life is different than the writing on the paperwork. sometime you just need to have a little talk about cost.... And that will cure up things pretty fast.